What constitutes a Reef Tank anymore?

doctorgori

doctorgori

New member
...hey a small "crusade" and I got my flame retardant suit on...but allowing a small soap box moment:

"what exactly is a reef tank anymore"? (mods be gentle)

...I realize certain man made/artificial materials would probably come into play as a eco/green thing, but is a reef tank supposed to be a reasonable duplication of a natural reef? or is it becomming someones "Boris Vallejo-ish" like interpretation of a underwater scene from a distant planet?

...from what I'm seeing the interpretation is definetley broadening and I'm not being the "police" or authority of the definition or whatever, but upon returning to the hobby, it most certainly has changed...

...and a fair assesment/critisism is perhaps TOTM is one of the "Drivers" behind this change? ... I've alluded to this in other threads: "if its to small to photograph, who cares?"

...and again, this is a fair observation, as there are no "bragging rights" for growoing tunicates, worms and feather dusters but there is incentive for bightly colored "shinny reef things" ... its as if "success' is measured in blue acros, not in a stable diversified reef tank, thats full of life


anyway
...someone please tell me lest I keep spending money on these designer zoos & acros (and yeah my tank is headed there also)
 
I dunno!
When I started adding corals to my tank, that is when I started calling it a reef tank. The biodiversity of the critters on the LR is a big part of it too!
 
yeah I stepped away, and should add that my concern is we could be loosing part of the eco-educational aspects of this hobby and the irony is at the expense of "going green" with the eco-rock and the like...

Moreover, the whole bragging rights thing oif TOTM is a good thing but it also "sorta emphasizes "shinny things",...heck just look at the sponser adds for "designer" corals et et....

just something to think about/consider...maybe TOTM could mix in some macro shots of cool looking crtitters....ya'll I got a decent point I methinks w/o any good answers
 
I think what he is getting at is that a reef tank should be more diverse, not just sps, or LE corals. It should have all of the sponges, stars, feather dusters, NPS, LPS, SPS, and softies. To make it more biologically diverse. Please correct me if I'm wrong, and let me know if I stepped to far (putting words in your mouth or the like).

But, my 2 cents is that a true reef tank should incorporate everything that you would find on a natural reef (within bounds of aquarium size). Otherwise, I personally see it as more of a specialized show tank, to display a certain type of coral or otherwise.
 
Well, I think 'should' varies with the driver, ie, mileage may vary. Since lights determine what you CAN keep, and our tanks don't get more than a yard deep, well, we're kind of limited to a slice, not a full reef. You can say you have a micro-environment, a little slice of a softie area, or a little part of an sps area, since in the wild, these areas are larger than the Seattle Aquarium, let alone my tank. What I like to do is imagine a little nook of real reef that would naturally house my little guys (blennies and gobies, a damsel or two) and I try to arrange it so they'll have territory pretty much as big as they would claim if they were living free in the ocean.
With other fishes you can't do that: tangs probably don't even visit sandbeds in the wild. Angels graze corals, but they graze and move and their damage has time to heal before they come back. So it's kind of hard to give them a natural environment.
One of the best places just to sit and reefwatch on dry land is http://www.breathebonaire.com which is one of my favorite reef cams.
 
Seems like a good question, but not a question of how RC (rules, moderation) should do things.

IMO this more a question about the overall progression / direction of the hobby.
 
jimmyj7090 said:
Seems like a good question, but not a question of how RC (rules, moderation) should do things.

IMO this more a question about the overall progression / direction of the hobby.
Click to expand...

^^yes...almost exactly...but in some ways I think RC under estimates its influence...I posted this in feedback for that reason.)

But, my 2 cents is that a true reef tank should incorporate everything that you would find on a natural reef (within bounds of aquarium size). Otherwise, I personally see it as more of a specialized show tank, to display a certain type of coral or otherwise
Click to expand...

....basically thats it: its like almost a "Coral glass menagerie" is what the aim of your "succesful" hobbyist is, not a duplication of a natural eco-system

I've had a decent vantage point of this hobby, at least as variety & longevity is concerned , and you would be surprised what "drives" a hobby....

w/o a long disertation, the jest of it is people generally don't do hobbys in isolation, and these forum based websites are actually very influential, and I'd say this one is in particular....

in a nutshell, this site provides a easy to use venue wherein hobbyist can "extend" the reach of thier projects and share the results ... pride & creativity are the drivers but the public sorta establishes the framework & boundaries....

TOTM is one side goal, but moreover what a reef tanks "goal" is has been slowly "Altered" by a number of influences into basically a "ultra" SPS/LPS/Zoo show case...
You might not notice this trend if your involvment in the hobby has been continuous...but you would definetly notice the change if you went MIA from about 90-ish or so and re-emerged back into the hobby into 2010

...nothing wrong with this change per se; change is inevitable...but I'm wondering if its at the expense of less altruistic, less visible, areas of the hobby...and again, I think its a fair question/concern
 
I agree very much. Just a question of how do definitions and attitudes actually change and evolve?

I like the idea of using choice of TOTM way for RC to involve itself in creating the evolving defination of "reef tank", but on the other hand TOTM could also be used to highlight some of the diverting directions that people are going with the hobby.

Interesting topic :)
 
doctorgori said:
^^yes...almost exactly...but in some ways I think RC under estimates its influence...I posted this in feedback for that reason.)



....basically thats it: its like almost a "Coral glass menagerie" is what the aim of your "succesful" hobbyist is, not a duplication of a natural eco-system

I've had a decent vantage point of this hobby, at least as variety & longevity is concerned , and you would be surprised what "drives" a hobby....

w/o a long disertation, the jest of it is people generally don't do hobbys in isolation, and these forum based websites are actually very influential, and I'd say this one is in particular....

in a nutshell, this site provides a easy to use venue wherein hobbyist can "extend" the reach of thier projects and share the results ... pride & creativity are the drivers but the public sorta establishes the framework & boundaries....

TOTM is one side goal, but moreover what a reef tanks "goal" is has been slowly "Altered" by a number of influences into basically a "ultra" SPS/LPS/Zoo show case...
You might not notice this trend if your involvment in the hobby has been continuous...but you would definetly notice the change if you went MIA from about 90-ish or so and re-emerged back into the hobby into 2010

...nothing wrong with this change per se; change is inevitable...but I'm wondering if its at the expense of less altruistic, less visible, areas of the hobby...and again, I think its a fair question/concern
Click to expand...

I've noticed much of the same, even while being continually in the hobby. I found myself veering in that direction for a while, actually. It wasn't until some extenuating circumstances surfaced that I stopped to look and seriously consider what gradual changes i had made. I'll go further, while noting that this is my opinion, in that I did not like what I saw--both in myself and my methodology/priorities as well as what I saw in the general paradigms that surround the hobby. That's not to say that I didn't like certain aspects, but I didn't like the divergence as a whole. I subsequently looked back at what got me started in the hobby and stuck to the more naturalistic, but no less ambitious goals I had in the beginning. It helped me start enjoying it more and gave me much of the same excitement and wonder I felt toward the hobby before. Just my $0.02.

Edit: (sorry, had to switch to my desktop instead of my iPhone.)

I think a lot of the change was, for the most part, inevitable as the hobby came within reach to more and more people. Like anything, you start seeing changing trends as more people get involved. With those people, you see a shift in priorities, ideologies, goals, etc. I think RC is a great example of that and certainly not in a bad way. I also think that, again like any trend, you'll see much of the current definition change again, possibly cycling back to where it started in some respects (how often have you seen that?). I think we should keep all of it--present, past, and future trends--in perspective and one that hopefully is for the best of the "denizens" we respect and keep.
 
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I think what defines a reef tank is intense lighting lots of flow and a ton of LR. Of course that is not a perfect definition for many reasons, but I think these things together set a reef tank apart from a FOWLR or Lagoon tank.

IMO the trend to the "shinny things" is a side effect to the progression of the hobby. Once upon a time keeping any coral alive much less make it grow was a huge achievement. With the advancements in salt mixes, lighting, filtration, ext. hobbyists not only can keep corals but often find that they grow to quickly, this I believe leads people to seek out the most amazing colors they can find.

I do agree with you though, the hitchhikers can be just as amazing as a designer ; and it is unfortunate that the attention to them seems to be lost. I would suggest that what you are talking about is more of a "natural reef tank". Perhaps you could get a Natural reef sub forum (or at least thread) started, I would definitely read it. :)
 
^this and ^^ this

yeah, spot on observation that as the hobbys "base" of participants expands, so does its goals.... on the one hand, thats a function of perfection of a ever evolving/improving process of "husbandry" techniques but I also think its a function of the culture of the forums

...and I'm not laying this "evolution" soley on the shoulders of TOTM, but it is one of the base ingredients...the "shiny things" analogy may seem a lil direct, but I sorta feel a lil deflated watching "my" hobby sorta digress into making "model planes" outta living things (and I agree the word "digress" is a opinion based on pov w/o any real backing)
 
Interesting points being made.
I've been in the hobby for the past 5 years and my former 140g tank evolved considerably over that time.
Initially my tank was teeming with life; spaghetti works inhabited the sand bed, cerith snails reproduced by the thousands. Probably the most interesting part of watching my tank was peering at the sand, or at the rocks with a magnifying glass to see if I could spot "that next cool creature". It was fascinating to watch little baby shrimp hatch and reproduce in the tank, and watch the tank teem with life that came out only after lights out. It was often a game to see where the strawberry conch had buried itself, or where the cucumber was slithering along cleaning the sand.

An unfortunate leak in the tank forced a complete re-do of the tank. In the process I jumped onto the "barebottom bandwagon". If there's one decision I can look back on that I regret most it is that one. Sure I had plenty of large corals and some nice fish, but I have to admit the tank was not as interesting to look at after that.

Everything old becomes new again and the ~300g tank I have been scheming up is going to again put more focus on the microscopic life I found so fascinating in my 140g tank's former glory.

Tyler
 
As said, the term "reef tank" is commonly just used to differentiate from FOWLR or freshwater. But if you really wanted to dissect it a little more, my definition would be any tank with live rock and corals. Even fish would be optional. It's a very broad general term, so it will have a very broad general definition.

As a side note, if you really wanted your tank to be a slice of the ocean, you'd have primarily fan corals. Something rarely seen in a reef tank.
 
heheheh.
If corals took as much skill and money to keep as goldfish nobody would do it. Or if they did they wouldn't brag about doing it or show their tank to everyone possible. In most cases I think a reef tank is something people do mostly because others cannot.

A reef tank is a Lamborghini. Expensive, gaudy, overtly artificial, time consuming, and fun to show to your friends. Since that's how most people use them, that's mostly how they're going to be judged. Aesthetics are a personal matter, but I don't think people are competing primarily on aesthetics. Once you standardize the look you're free to compete in other arenas with other tanks that look pretty much like yours does. I think a lot of us care more about how much it cost, or how much work went into it, or how long it's been running than what exactly it looks like. Personally I'll always admire the skill and expense that goes into the modern reef tank, but I admit they all look pretty much the same to me.
 
a very interesting topic indeed. I'll throw in my .02 for what it's worth.

I had been interested in reef tanks for as long as I can remember. I started browsing a few years ago but was never in a position to purchase one due to my current situation of being in college and moving houses every year or so.

However, I knew I was going to get one after I graduated college so I started reading religiously daily to get an idea of what I wanted. While doing this research, the majority of things that you came across were LE, fancy names, or some designer coral (i.e. Jason Fox). When I purchased my reef tank and started to purchase corals this was pretty much the only thing available online as well.

An additional thing that I took note of is what was appealing or considered a beautiful reef not only to me, but to other hobbysit as well. Seomeone who has a reef with a few pieces of LR with a few drab corals may get a few replies back on his/her thread. However, it's the person that has the fancy lights, the starfire tank, and all the bright crazy colored limited edition corals that generate the most feedback and considered the most beautiful reefs.

Therefore, when I look for corals I look for something that stands out in somebody else's aquarium which is usuallly something that is brightly colored or designer name (tyree). Additionally, I went to my LFS and the majority of corals that they were selling were bright shiny things because that is what people want and that is what sells.

In conclusion, the bright shiny designer corals and hard to keep rare fish are what people term "a beautiful reef" in my opinion. Local fish stores and online websites also generally carry a lot of the fancy stuff because that is what sells the best and what people like and the eye catchers are what peoeple get hooked on. If you were to do a poll on what brought people into the hobby, it's going to be a beautiful fish with bright colors or a coral that stands out that is bright and shiny..:thumbsup:
 
...I could quote every single post thus far, every one a gem with valid points...

I do truly believe to each his own but at some point the definition of what constitutes a "reef tank" could become so broad as to be rendered meaningless....

I suppose the whole matter could be distilled down into the "scientific/educational" camps and the "artistic/minimalist" camps with some overlap .... and I'm not suggesting either is bad or that some broadening of the definition is nessasarily bad ... but I wonder if we will rue the day when the focus becomes soley on the husbandry of expensive "ultra" corals
 
This is a good thread. I like to see off the norm topics.
I would say a Reef is a fish tank that has any animals that are not fish. In the ocean reefs have a huge variance. Go to San Diego, and swim around you will see a completely different reef then in Maui. Then go to Washington State & it's different again. If you didn't know any better you would think you had been on 3 completely different planets..
Of course as the humans we are we like the "shinny expensive things" and it's common for people to show off their shinny expensive toys. That's why a lot of the builds have a long description about the tank, stand, plumbing. Then big hype on the New LED lighting. Then it's check out my Skimmer & my MP40s and my Controller. Then at the end.
"Today I got fish :D" There is a huge focus on the Reef tank toys. Don't get me wrong. I love my toys, and I am not better then anybody else. When I got my first MP40, I sat there for like 2 hours playing with the flow options and watching my tank water move around. I have spend hours mixing my T5 bulbs to get different colors, never mind that I have switch my light from T5 to MH to T5 to MH then back to T5. I am surprised my fish didn't have seizures...
 
doctorgori said:
I do truly believe to each his own but at some point the definition of what constitutes a "reef tank" could become so broad as to be rendered meaningless....
Click to expand...

Indeed I think we're already there in some respects. For myself, I like to create a patch of reef much the way it might look in nature...although with less algae growth. Some prefer a reef "garden" in the same vein as some fancy estate garden.

but I wonder if we will rue the day when the focus becomes soley on the husbandry of expensive "ultra" corals
Click to expand...

I already do. I've seen certain folks stick fancy names to corals that used to commonly show up and retail for $20 to $30 for a nice size colony, and turn around and start selling them for $50 or a few hundred dollars for a half inch cutting...just because they started calling it a "I want lots of your money LE Nuclear Green Titmouse Nipple"
 
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