What factors impact the rate of new polyp formation?

[Reef Bass]

One of the (many) interesting aspects (for me) of reefing is observing how the same coral looks / grows various tanks. It is unlikely that two water and lighting systems maintained by different people will yield identical environments, and those sometimes subtle, sometimes substantial differences can have a long term impact or influence on the coral.

The same type of zoanthid or palythoa can exhibit differences in coloration, polyp size, stalk length, skirt length and amount of time spent open or extended. Some of these variations have very simple explanations, such as the quantity of flow can impact skirt length (higher flow results in longer skirts, IME). Amount of light can impact stalk length (too little light can cause them to stretch out). Water quality and lighting can impact color (brown zoos anyone?).

Another variation I've observed is how the same number of polyps of a zoanthid in one tank can look fabulous but be slow growers, while in another tank can soon have 3 or 4 times the starting number of polyps. What are the primary factors that influence the rate of new polyp formation? It is as simple as a higher temperature results in more metabolic acitivity so more new polyps? A longer photoperiod provides more light energy to work with? Is having "dirtier" (some nitrates, maybe even some phosphates) water somehow beneficial? Maybe having fewer other types of corals in the water system that possibly outcompete the zoanthids for key nutrients in metabolic pathways crucial for reproduction?

 

[Scopus Tang]

One of the (many) interesting aspects (for me) of reefing is observing how the same coral looks / grows various tanks. It is unlikely that two water and lighting systems maintained by different people will yield identical environments, and those sometimes subtle, sometimes substantial differences can have a long term impact or influence on the coral.

The same type of zoanthid or palythoa can exhibit differences in coloration, polyp size, stalk length, skirt length and amount of time spent open or extended. Some of these variations have very simple explanations, such as the quantity of flow can impact skirt length (higher flow results in longer skirts, IME). Amount of light can impact stalk length (too little light can cause them to stretch out). Water quality and lighting can impact color (brown zoos anyone?).

Another variation I've observed is how the same number of polyps of a zoanthid in one tank can look fabulous but be slow growers, while in another tank can soon have 3 or 4 times the starting number of polyps. What are the primary factors that influence the rate of new polyp formation? It is as simple as a higher temperature results in more metabolic acitivity so more new polyps? A longer photoperiod provides more light energy to work with? Is having "dirtier" (some nitrates, maybe even some phosphates) water somehow beneficial? Maybe having fewer other types of corals in the water system that possibly outcompete the zoanthids for key nutrients in metabolic pathways crucial for reproduction?

Some interesting questions there; from my own observations and research I would say that you have already identified two of the major factors. Most notably water flow and light availability. Additional factors appear to be water quality and alkalinity stability.

 

[A. Grandis]

Alkalinity, light, water flow and nutrients in the water are important, indeed.
Feeding (particulate/liquid) the zoanthids will help them to produce more polyps in less time.
The temperature will be a factor, depending on the species.
Perhaps vitamins and amino acids will help in a long run.
Finally, we have the particular growth and reproductive rate for each different species. And we can't help that.

Grandis.

 

[Reef Bass]

Thanks for your inputs guys.

It seems we agree on these as factors for the rate of new polyp formation:

- basic growth rate of specific type of zoanthid / paly
- water quality
- alkalinity stability
- light availability
- flow
- temperature
- food

These all seem pretty common sense. In my lps tank, I think I could encourage more new polyp growth with some more flow and more food (very little fish poo in there). I do target feed my palys and they seem to appreciate it. My Nuclear Greens are growing at a good rate. Some of my regular zoos not so much.

What do you think ideal par readings would be for lighting? As I recall the sand bed in my lps tank gets something like 120. I know they could take more, but would that be optimal? Anyone have some "magic" par values they aim for?

 

[wholelottawater]

This is a good topic. Do not know about PAR. do not have a meter.

I am curious about anything that anyone adds to there food that they believe spurs growth.

 

[meatball87]

I will be tagging along cause I have some zoas that grow great but others don't grow at all its weird so hopefully we can figure this out

 

[Reef Bass]

meatball87, if the polyps you're discussing are all in the same water system, I wonder if the differences you are seeing might be related more to the first reason mentioned, variation between types of zoanthids?

In my case, my lps tanks (where most of my zoos are) has been lower flow and lower light than my sps tank. Also my system in general has very few fish, and the ones I have are small, so my polyps may not be getting as much "fish fertilizer" as other systems. I've also been cutting back on feeding my lps to combat algaes, so I think there are less "leftovers" or free floating nutrients available.

A few days ago I tweaked my flow in my lps tank for more water movement and I'm bumping up my sps feeding (same water system), so I'm looking forward to seeing if I notice more new babies in the near future.

 

[meatball87]

I could be with some of them but I also have some of the some type in two different spots and one grows like a weed while the other doesn't really grow at all and they aren't that far apart as far as lighting and flow so could they be that sensitive to it

 

[kichimark]

I could be with some of them but I also have some of the some type in two different spots and one grows like a weed while the other doesn't really grow at all and they aren't that far apart as far as lighting and flow so could they be that sensitive to it

You mention they are of the same type. Did they come from the same colony or did you purchase/obtain them at different times and places? Also what are the differences in location? Are they in the same depth in regards to lighting and flow?

 

[meatball87]

They are from the same colony but the difference in lighting and flow is minimal its just weird that little of a difference can make a coral growth change that much

 

[meatball87]

If its the inviroment wouldn't the growth be about the same cause they're in the same tank about a foot apart and 3 inches difference in height

 

[Reef Bass]

The foot apart could be significant in terms of flow and the ones 3" higher could be receiving more light in a shallow tank. Are the higher ones growing faster?

 

[MUCHO REEF]

One of the (many) interesting aspects (for me) of reefing is observing how the same coral looks / grows various tanks. It is unlikely that two water and lighting systems maintained by different people will yield identical environments, and those sometimes subtle, sometimes substantial differences can have a long term impact or influence on the coral.


Awesome, I agree % 2,000 . No two system will ever yield the exact same results. Our man made biotopes are mere creations, or should I say, replications, of what mother nature has created from the begging of time. I often just smile when I see claims made with on line vendors, LFS and private sellers that a particular coral is a definite slow or fast grower, yet none of them will ever give you a money back gurantee that this is indeed true. Why, because it isn't. You, your tank, your husbandry practices, your water parameters, lighting type, watts, tank maturity and a dozen other variables all in sync or not, will be the sole determining factors in your corals growth, coloration, appearance or if they will even survive or not.

The same type of zoanthid or palythoa can exhibit differences in coloration, polyp size, stalk length, skirt length and amount of time spent open or extended. Some of these variations have very simple explanations, such as the quantity of flow can impact skirt length (higher flow results in longer skirts, IME). Amount of light can impact stalk length (too little light can cause them to stretch out). Water quality and lighting can impact color (brown zoos anyone?).

Ditto, the Reef Bass is hitting the nail on the head here, PREACH ON. The reefer in the sticky up top, ( ACERHIGH ) is a good friend of mine. This is the only reefer I know who took the time to set up a system with alternating slightly higher than normal current, which came from 4 alternating directions. His skirt lenght on an entire tank full of zoas and palys was simply remarkable, I mean unbelievable. I'm talking skirts so long, the directional current would lay them over the oral disk and nearly touching the mid point of the skirts on the opposite side of the polyp. CRAZY, and I mean he produce this lenght on 80% of his colonies. Were there other contributing factors, YES. But current was the keep player in his success.

Another variation I've observed is how the same number of polyps of a zoanthid in one tank can look fabulous but be slow growers, while in another tank can soon have 3 or 4 times the starting number of polyps. What are the primary factors that influence the rate of new polyp formation? It is as simple as a higher temperature results in more metabolic acitivity so more new polyps? A longer photoperiod provides more light energy to work with? Is having "dirtier" (some nitrates, maybe even some phosphates) water somehow beneficial? Maybe having fewer other types of corals in the water system that possibly outcompete the zoanthids for key nutrients in metabolic pathways crucial for reproduction?


Wow, this is a topic we could talk weeks on. With some corals, the reefer can have perfect, I mean perfect condition, yet if something like the tank temp is way off, which will have a direct impact on the coral's ability to respire, that coral will now have issues.

No two systems are the same, we must get back to treating each tank individually as reefers, and most importantly, zoanthid keepers. Of late, there has been a major shift away from discussing those topics which will have a direct impact on the health and welfare of our corals, but instead there's a gravitation towards candy.

I don't agree that a longer photoperiod is a better photoperiod. I say researching what type of corals you have, asking questions of others who have had success with said corals, cracking open a book, doing a Google search, asking questions in these types of forums and sharing, is what will make our reefkeeping experinces a better one.


One of the best threads ever in this forum. Much respect to the OP for posting this. Would love to hear other opinions though.

Mucho Reef

 

[meatball87]

I didn't see it posted at the top but IMO placement has alot to do with growth more than u would think.

 

[jbell370]

I think placement in the system is a factor, but that would also bring in to count the lighting and flow where they were placed. I have had a colony of blues for almost 8 months, they are slow growing, but seem to like it high up in the tank, the alien eyes that I have seem to like it a little lower and some more rare types appear to like it on the bottom in the sand. I had purchased a nice neon green/yellow colony of 200 polyps from a LFS that I always deal with, I watched them disappear over the course of 2 weeks to almost nothing, I think I had 10-12 polyps left. I first thought that something was eating them, moved them lower in the tank and am pleased to say they have made a great come back. I also have noticed that some of the frags received on branch type rock grow amazing when the branch is left standing or at a great angle, not sure why or how that would change things, but just an observation.

 

[MUCHO REEF]

A good thread, anyone else cares to share.

 

[A. Grandis]

...
What do you think ideal par readings would be for lighting? As I recall the sand bed in my lps tank gets something like 120. I know they could take more, but would that be optimal? Anyone have some "magic" par values they aim for?

Zoanthids are basically shallow water organisms.
In your system? The more PAR the better. You won't bit nature's PAR!
Just keep in mind the adaptation period for the organisms you have, if you do any changes.
Any changes will need to be done slowly.
Grandis.

 

[Reef Bass]

Good point Grandis. I agree that the par in nature is most likely much higher than in many of our tanks. And in terms of reproducing, I can see where an animal which is receiving more energy will be able to reproduce either sooner or more rapidly or more frequently, so I can see greater par (not necessarily longer photoperiod, but more par during the photoperiod) encouraging new polyp formation.

If I can find the time I want to set up an experiment where two frags of the same polyp are placed in the same area, except for one is higher up, thereby receiving more par. It would be interesting to see if one ends up with more polyps than the other after a couple months.

 

[tiff393]

This is a very interesting topic and one I've been thinking about for a couple of days now (before I found this thread). The reason why is that I have about 12 different zoas in my tank and there all about inches away from each other all on the sand bed and they all get about the same flow and lighting. Now out of 12 different zoas 2 groups don't seem to be doing well and I'm about to lose one of them they look like there starting to melt. I've tried moving them high in the tank, putting them under shade, putting them on the sand bed in direct light and nothing is working. What I don't understand is that they were doing great and growing and then it was like over night they just went down hill. Now the second group of zoas half are opening and have are not now these ones are new to my tank BUT I bought about three others on the same day and from the same place and there doing great no problems. I think the different zoa thing comes in to factor here maybe I just can't keep these types of zoas. What do you guys think?

 

[Scopus Tang]

Zoanthids are basically shallow water organisms.
In your system? The more PAR the better. You won't bit nature's PAR!
Just keep in mind the adaptation period for the organisms you have, if you do any changes.
Any changes will need to be done slowly.
Grandis.

True enough, but remember that some palys come from deeper water, and that some zoas while found in shallow water are found in the shade of LR, so even with proper acclimation, they may not do well in bright lighting or they may lose the colors you wish to retain. AoG for example becomes more pink than red in brighter lighting and Kryptonite Explosion first gets a large green center with a thin ring, then morphs to a pale blue almost like blue jeans.