What is eveyone's sweet spot for PAR? Dana Riddle's Latest Talk has me confused...

[koral_lover]

I was wondering what is a good PAR range everyone tries to target for their sps? Top of my rock work I have few corals getting 400+ and towards the bottom some corals getting 250ish.

After watching one of Dana Riddle's latest talks on Alkalinity, Flow, and Lighting, I am wondering if my corals would benefit from less par - in the 150-200 range...I always get conflicting feelings about PAR due to talks like these which seem to be very research oriented, but then see some tanks where folks are blasting corals w/ 600+ PAR.

I know nutrients and photoperiod also need to be considered, and that there is not a one-size-fits all because every sps coral has different needs, but just looking for some guidance on what folks tend to try and target in terms of PAR. I came across some information that suggests World Wide Corals was only running 150-200 PAR and was surprised at the growth and color at that low of level...

Any input?

 

[chaudhry]

I agree with you. I am going through the same frustration.
There is so much conflicting information.
I will just quote an example from few reputable online venfors where there is even a discrepancy in what is considered low medium and high par.
A high par on tidal garden website is listed as 150-200 and on vivid aquariums it is listed as 300-400.

https://www.tidalgardens.com/coral/stock-pink-table-acropora.html


https://vividaquariums.com/collections/acropora/products/red-planet-table-acropora

Not only that, i also see all kind of information about choice of light 10,000 K versus 3500 K white light choices.
I have seen most reefers using and preferring 10 K whites. But lately came across a thread by farmerTy named (no water change sps tank), where he mentions changing all 10K lights to 3.5 K on his led panel. And his SPS Tank is to die for.

Then, i come across a local reefer and witness his MH lit, SPS tank. He is all about highest PARs and light. His SPS grow like weed.

I size doesn't fit all. I continue to look for the size that fits me.

I currently run Ledzeal 48" LED panel with 15 hour photo period. Blues and UV at 80%, whites 10K at 65% for 5 hours. Day/night variation. Recently checked my PAR with a meter for the first time and it is around 250 on upper part of my tank. 150-200 in the middle and 100-150 at the bottom. I expected my par to be higer but thats what my meter showed. Going any further up, i start to notice bleaching. My sps are happy looking, but growth is not as much as i want it to be.

The more i read up and more i find myself confused. Frustrating all the way!

Everyone talks about, how MH are different than T5 and both of those are different from LEDs. General consensus is that PAR on leds should be dialed down a bit. But i font find the specifics.

Following along. Hoping this to a productive thread with lots of questions answered.


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[Hentz]

There is such a great variety of which people grow corals under and in. Such a wide variety of tank parameters, lights, and etc..

For me personally, I've been getting great growth under my Hydra 26HD in the 180-250PAR range. I notice growth every 2-3 days on everything from my Pink Millepora (Not in the below picture) to my Walt Disney frag, which last week was just starting to encrust and this week it has two nice sized nubs coming out.

Oddly enough, on my last tank which was also ZEOvit, I kept my Acropora under higher PAR. While I also had great color and PE, I had about the same growth rate, if not a little bit less. The only difference on the two tanks, I'm feeding very very heavy on my current tank with high nutrient export along with 1-2 water changes a week.

Here was PAR on my 56 Gallon SPS tank with ATI 6x39w T5:


I think depending on your nutrient levels, the intensity is really what matters. I run a low nutrient system (ZEOvit) and I'm running low PAR levels as well with amazing PE, color, and growth.

FWIW, here is a PAR reading I took a little while ago on my tank with a single Hydra 26HD. Note, there have been a few more corals added since then. The only slower growing Acropora I have right now is my Red Dragon. It's slowly starting to encrust.

 

[chaudhry]

Thanks Hentz!
Comparison between MH and Led PAR is helpful to keep things in prospective.
By the way, how do you take such nice pictures with blues on. Whats your secret?


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[bif24701]

What is eveyone's sweet spot for PAR? Dana Riddle's Latest Talk has me confused...

PO4, NO3, available food, flow, pH, ALK and possibly more all play a role. My general feeling and theory is that higher "nutrient tanks" (not just NO3 & PO4 but also food/AA) can have more intensity and higher ALK.

My system does well like this to the best of my knowledge:
Very high flow
ALK 10.2
pH 8.2-8.4
PO3 .03
NO3 ~20ppm
High intensity lighting

This is at my sand bed today:

I would say my growth is average to good. Depending on the corals.

High input/High export

To be totally honest I'm just as confused too, have no freaking idea what I'm doing truly.


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[chaudhry]

Is this LED PAR or T5.


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[bif24701]

Is this LED PAR or T5.


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Both.

Kessil AP700s and two T5s


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[rovster]

A friend lent new PAR meter the other day and was shocked when most of my corals are getting between 700-1200 PAR. Things look good but I wonder if they would look better if I decreased the intensity a bit?

 

[lynchmob3000]

A friend lent new PAR meter the other day and was shocked when most of my corals are getting between 700-1200 PAR. Things look good but I wonder if they would look better if I decreased the intensity a bit?

That's crazy! What units are you running?


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[bif24701]

A friend lent new PAR meter the other day and was shocked when most of my corals are getting between 700-1200 PAR. Things look good but I wonder if they would look better if I decreased the intensity a bit?

What kind of lighting do you have?


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[Piper27]

PO4, NO3, available food, flow, pH, ALK and possibly more all play a role. My general feeling and theory is that higher "nutrient tanks" (not just NO3 & PO4 but also food/AA) can have more intensity and higher ALK.

I think this is true and it's to hard to generalize a certain par number for every tank. Way to many factors. Also a lot of studies people are basing their statements on are research done on one specific coral. Which means almost nothing to us in terms of what par we should run.

 

[Bratyboy2]

Following along.

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[rovster]

That's crazy! What units are you running?


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4 G2 pro at 50%with regular lenses at 10" AWL and 4 T5. Tank is 100 gal. Yes I know it's overkill, my thought initially was to have more units run lower for spread, then I just started playing with T5.

Some semi current pics of my tank...

 

[Radioheadx14]

Tagging along. Just bought a seneye for the Par meter and will be testing some things out

 

[jda]

As much as possible. You will never be able to get even close to the sun. Most acros I like to be over 600 and up to 1000. Most deepwaters around 250-300. I like 250+ on the sand. I keep the frags at about 750-800 under 4" of water right under a Radium.

This is more about quality than quantity - you cannot give the corals enough quality light, but you have to keep low quality light down to a minimum.

Keep in mind that they typical PAR meter only reads from like 420 to 680nm. T5 and MH will put out significant light on either side of this that could account for 20%+ more output.

PAR meter is better used to find differing amount of lights in the same tank - using PAR as an absolute number across different meters, tanks and light sources is probably a fools errand.

 

[jda]

Also, some of the vendors will move frags into lower power lighting to get colors to contrast a bit more and make them look better to the unsuspecting eye. Usually they are grown and colored until intense light and then backed off just a bit before they take photos of them.

I don't think that any of them keep the corals that they want to keep this way.

 

[bif24701]

I think this is true and it's to hard to generalize a certain par number for every tank. Way to many factors. Also a lot of studies people are basing their statements on are research done on one specific coral. Which means almost nothing to us in terms of what par we should run.

Totally agree. I have a mixed tank which has proven to be challenging.


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[SnowManSnow]

I recently read a really interesting article out of Coral Magazine. It was concerned with PAR, and its RELATIONSHIP with NO3 and ALK. Another REALLY interesting aspect of the article was the DAILY par thats certain reefs receive. In other words, there is more to PAR than just what a specified peak is getting at a specified moment in time. The article was about the TOTAL par over the period of 24 hours, and the cumulative effects that total yield had on corals, as well as the importance of a dark period, in which the coral cells performed many important functions. (I think the span was 7-8 hours). I wish I could find the article, but I'm having issues finding it. The reason I brought it up was to illustrate that even PAR can fluctuate from tank to tank and get different / same results based on the other tank parameters. If you can find the article its a GREAT read.

 

[DiscusHeckel]

In the context of my tank, I keep PAR values between 300-500 mmol/m2/sec for those Acros that require high light. So-called deep water ones get between 200-250 mmol/m2/sec PAR.

Here is a recent photo of my tank:

 

[w3bbo]

No idea what my PAR is. I thought PUR was more important than PAR? Here's my reef with 8x54w 10hrs with 1hr ramp up either side:

I think the photo period is also important to consider. The less PUR there is available the longer you want your lights on. Imo SPS can take either short strong blasts of light (4-6 hrs) or less powerful lighting for a longer period (8-12 hrs). As long as the energy they receive is within the limits they prefer then its all good. Some will grow better with higher light, some better with lower then you have to consider coloration which is a whole new ball game!