What is the deal?

[CeeGee]

I am extremely mad at the moment.

I have (on it's way to the "other side" I am pretty sure at the moment.) a flame wrasse that has been in quarantine for the last 35 days. I treated the tank with copper power after consulting with just dave (here on reef central) and followed his directions to the tee. This treatment is supposed to be very effective and much more safe than any other copper based med on the market.

The fish had done superbly for the last 30 days now all of the sudden the fish's eyes are very cloudy and it is breathing hard and has something all over it. It is hiding and not eating which is very much not like this fish. I suspect it is Amylodinium.

Now for the question. How in the world could this fish be in quarantine for 30 days, not show any signs of parasites, and suddenly come down with a parasite when the tank is being treated with copper? This makes no sense whatsoever.

It is crap like this that made me leave the hobby for about 6 years.

I don't think this fish is going to make it. It looks really bad in the course of just one day it has gone from a few specks to cloudy eyes and having powdered sugar looking stuff all over it.

I am so disappointed. This fish was very expensive and was doing great. I have never ever had a fish make it from my quarantine tank into my main display tank. What in the heck am I doing wrong?

It depresses me to see all these people that have a tank with several fish in it. I just can't seem to pull it off no matter what fish I try.

On the flip side my SPS are doing great. Corals seem so much easier to care for than fish.

I am currently thinking of moving my other wrasse that is in a separate quarantine tank over to the display tank. Obviously quarantine is doing me (and the fish) no good.

 

[BTTRFLYGRL]

double post

 

[BTTRFLYGRL]

It could be a reaction to the copper or a secondary bacterial infection. remove the copper, keep the water clean. you may have to treat w/ antibiotics if it doesn't clear up. I don't think its velvet, the copper would have killed that also. BTW, what exactly is Copperpower?
Could you post a pic?

 

[CeeGee]

It is a form of copper medication.

It doesn't look like a bacterial infection. I could be wrong though. This really sucks.

 

[BTTRFLYGRL]

Get that water clean and keep it pristine, see if he comes around. Good luck

 

[CeeGee]

I am running a poly filter right now and I plan on doing a water change.

 

[maro1]

I know the feeling have struggled with a similar experiance lately


Mar:rollface:

 

[Kahuna Tuna]

I am so disappointed. This fish was very expensive and was doing great. I have never ever had a fish make it from my quarantine tank into my main display tank. What in the heck am I doing wrong?

This may not be a popular statement with some folks here on RC but this is why I dont quarantine anymore and haven't for years. The water parameters on my main tank are spot on so I make sure the fish I buy are healthy and in they go. I haven't lost a fish to disease or had an outbreak for a very long time.

I am curious as to your quarantine tank setup. The ones I see being used with success are set up like a regular system. I've never been a fan of copper in any form, why did you add it? Was the fish showing signs of disease? Sorry to hear about your fish.

 

[CeeGee]

I am curious as to your quarantine tank setup. The ones I see being used with success are set up like a regular system. I've never been a fan of copper in any form, why did you add it? Was the fish showing signs of disease? Sorry to hear about your fish.

My quarantine has been just fine. As the fish have been.

Originally the fish did show signs of ich after being in the tank for a few weeks. So I consulted with just dave he seems to have really good luck with fairy wrasses and we talked about things and decided this is the best thing to do. He uses the copper power on every fish that comes into his store and he has never lost a fish to this copper he tells me.

so I treated the tank and bam the fish is back in great health and has remained there until the day before yesterday. The other fish in the tank is scratching but not showing any of the signs of disease like the wrasse.

This is such a bummer. I am about 100% sure that this fish is a goner. I just don't see how these people stock their tanks with all these fish and never have disease problems. Every single time I buy a fish I battle some form of disease or another.

 

[just dave]

After seeing the cloudy eye part it got me thinking that you may have a trematode called the Eye Fluke (a Neobenedenia sp. trematode) which has become very common place in the trade and esp. with Hawaiian fish. Because it is virtually impossible to see (it's clear) one needs to be familiar with the symptoms and this can pose some problems because the symptoms are often due to secondary infection and are treated as such without going after the cause. See my PM for a more detailed explanation.

 

[CeeGee]

I just sent you a PM back.

The really crazy thing is that the fish's eyes were not cloudy at all yesterday but it started hiding really bad yesterday.

 

[pitt_prodigy]

Dont know about your fishes illness..... not a real skilled fish physician yet (luckily..) I know what you mean about quarantine though. I have had things go bad real quick with otherwise healthy fish in quarantine..... however mine was mainly due to an ammonia spike. Luckily i noticed the fish acting weird.....tested the water and got him the hell out of there quick. Now he is fat as ever.....doing great. I understand the reasons for quarantine in theory...... but personally im working on perfecting the whole process. I think your right that it seems like you have to have the tank up and running like a regular tank to keep things going well. The main reason i dont trust em is that when stuff does go wrong in them, due to their size you really dont have a lot of reaction time. Oh well.. live and learn. Good luck with your fish.... i wouldnt write him off just yet. I have seen friends fish make miraculous rebounds after being put in pristine water conditions.

 

[reefD]

monitor all spikes ammonia nitrites and nitrates. that was my immediate suspect

 

[BTTRFLYGRL]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6280589#post6280589 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by just dave
After seeing the cloudy eye part it got me thinking that you may have a trematode called the Eye Fluke (a Neobenedenia sp. trematode) which has become very common place in the trade and esp. with Hawaiian fish. Because it is virtually impossible to see (it's clear) one needs to be familiar with the symptoms and this can pose some problems because the symptoms are often due to secondary infection and are treated as such without going after the cause. See my PM for a more detailed explanation.

I think the copper would have killed off the Flukes also

 

[just dave]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6281604#post6281604 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by BTTRFLYGRL
I think the copper would have killed off the Flukes also

Doesn't do a thing to them.

 

[CeeGee]

The fish is dead.

Thanks to all who tried to help.

My next fairy wrasse is coming from a 200 mile drive from a store called kermits reef owned by a guy named justdave.

Dave,
I am going to shoot for sometime early next year and hopefully you will be able to get some flames at that time. I am currently thoroughly disgusted and I know there has got to be a way to increase my survival rate. I have been keeping fish for years and years and have never heard of trematodes until a few weeks ago when talking to you. I have seen several fish in this shape and never knew what it was. I still don't know how you would catch this in time. Like I stated the fish was in excellent shape and eating (I have never seen a fish eat so well except for my old imperator angel but we all know they are hogs) and two days later it is dead. I am assuming that one should treat every fish as though it has this parasite wheter it does or not. Providing that you treat for this if I buy my fish from you is the chance of this showing back up eliminated?

 

[just dave]

I ran into them years ago. I made a tentative diagnosis with the help of a book called "Aquariology: Master Volume: The Science of Fish Health Management" by Gratzek followed by some FW dips. I confirmed my suspicion after talking with a Vet in Florida that worked with public aquariums,wholesalers,and farms. At the time the problem seemed to be fairly widespread amongst many of the wholesalers. The treatments were organophosphate,formalin,or Praziquantel (which was new at the time.) Now as the years have progressed it seems many of the wholesalers have learned and started to do something about them. Now keep in mind that at the wholesale level their concern would be to keep their systems from having an infestation. Fish may not stay with them long enough to benefit from any treatment. Which means they may pass on to the retailer,or end user if they sell direct to the public, fish that acquired any problems up the line. On the retail level fish stay until sold so one must be concerned about cleaning up the fish as well as the system. What makes this particular guy so bad is that it is virtually transparent, it needs only the fish to complete its life cycle,the eggs are resistant to the treatments,and the symptoms are often confused as being caused by other things. So one ends up chasing the symptoms without treating the cause. I've talked with many LFS owners ( and some wholesalers) that have had this nasty but were unaware of it. They knew they had a problem but where treating for the wrong things. Once you know what to look for ,how to confirm it ,and how to treat, it's not a big deal anymore. Can anyone guarantee that their animals are free of any pathogens or aliments,not really. You can't because of the human factor and because of developed resistance (which is sometime because of the human factor.) Knowing this we assume the worst for many things and treat prophylactically and we assume that things will slip by and do random checks and periodic system serializations. As a end user you should assume the same. You should quarantine,treat (when and if needed),sterilize your quarantine system in-between uses. Doing nothing gets you nothing. Some of us are lucky and some are not. I'm happy when lady luck smiles on me but I don't count on it.

 

[CeeGee]

You should move to nashville and open a shop.

 

[LargeAngels]

just dave: Thanks for the info. I received a goldflake angel from a wholesaler in Hawaii that had that. Did a freshwater dip and he perked right up (I still have him in the quarentine setup.) What about lower S.G? How effective is UV to keep this down? I am also a firm believer in quarentine.

CeeGee: Was that the flame from Salty Critter you got a while back?

 

[CeeGee]

Sadly yes it was.

I really miss that fish it was so cool. You have a good memory.