what is wrong with my clown?? help please!

[sabazerehi]

thought i was dealing with black ich but woke up this morning, and found my clown like this:

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Boboltalah23/?action=view&current=DSC01541.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Boboltalah23/DSC01541.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Boboltalah23/?action=view&current=DSC01543.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v690/Boboltalah23/DSC01543.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


what is it? a fungal infection? fin & tail rot, i've had fish in the past with those problems and it never looked like this though. i'm in the process of setting up a qt but don't know what i'm treating for. i have melafix and maracyn on hand. the fish is still active although, it seems like she's having some difficulty swimming and she was doing great yesterday and eating like a pig (i know cuz she took a few bites out of me).

 

[eco-tropic]

Looks like Brook

Looks like Brook

Hi,

Unless this fish has been abused by tank mates, my guess is brooklynella as a cause and maybe a secondary bacterial infection. Do you have the ability to quarantine this fish?

 

[sabazerehi]

yes i actually just set up a 5g qt and i'm waiting for the temp to rise so i can put her in it. how should i treat for it? maracyn-2? i have maracyn and melafix on hand already.

 

[eco-tropic]

Formalin is the only treatment that is effective against this parasite. You SHOULD also try hyposalinity. Do a search of the board and I'm certain you will find a ton of information of hypo and Formalin.

 

[sabazerehi]

i thought formalin was only for black ich, it'll help with the fungus as well? thanks for the info. and can hypo and formalin be used together?

 

[eco-tropic]

I would do formalin baths, but the most important this is to get your fish into hypo. Low salinity is an excellent way to treat most such skin infections, since reducing the salinity helps the fish recover in several different ways (Lowry 2004). It lessens the risk of dehydration by decreasing osmotic pressure (Kollman, 1998), and reduces the amount of energy the fish must expend on osmoregulation, helping the weakened fish to recover (Kollman, 1998).

 

[MarinaP]

You can drop salinity to 1.009 and keep it that level for weeks. Clowns take hypo very well.

Maracyn2 should be administered at double dose.

The damage looks like chemical burn to me. How is the breathing rate?

 

[sabazerehi]

ok she's in the qt right now, i'll start dropping the salinity today, how much should i drop it by and how fast? i don't want to over medicate the fish and stress her out more, should i do the formalin baths or the maracyn 2? or is it ok to do both? thanks so much for the info guys, i really appreciate it. i'm going to be out of town next week for christmas for a week so hopefully i can get her stable enough by then so i don't have to worry too much.

 

[MarinaP]

Drop it all the way, no need to acclimate the fish.

I would start with antibiotics and wait on the baths for a couple of days.

Brook is fast moving (3 days from the onset usually followed by death without treatment). First signs are rapid breathing and clamped fins.

When was the last addition of fish to the tank?
Again, how is the breathing rate?
Do you dose anything in the tank? Kalk?

 

[sabazerehi]

it's hard to say but i do think she's breathing a little more rapidly. the last addition to the tank was a flame angel about 2 weeks ago but it came from another tank that it had been living in for 7 months disease free. i dose b-ionic, however, i haven't done so in over a week. i'm going to the lfs now to pick up some maracyn-2, hopefully they have it. thanks marinap! and also going to get some ro/di so i can start dropping the salinity

 

[sabazerehi]

well i was able to find formalin-3 today, but no lfs near my home carry maracyn-2. will melafix suffice? or should i just stick to the hypo and the formalin baths. and should i start the baths right away? or give the clown a little time to recover from the infection first? thanks!

 

[Jersey Bounce]

I would do formalin baths, but the most important this is to get your fish into hypo. Low salinity is an excellent way to treat most such skin infections, since reducing the salinity helps the fish recover in several different ways (Lowry 2004). It lessens the risk of dehydration by decreasing osmotic pressure (Kollman, 1998), and reduces the amount of energy the fish must expend on osmoregulation, helping the weakened fish to recover (Kollman, 1998).

+10000 - especially the formalin baths.

well i was able to find formalin-3 today, but no lfs near my home carry maracyn-2. will melafix suffice? or should i just stick to the hypo and the formalin baths. and should i start the baths right away? or give the clown a little time to recover from the infection first? thanks!

There are a few diseases that are not Brook that can still look like Brook. The formalin baths should take care of any fungal problems, but IMO using an anti-bacterial medication (along with the hypo salinity) is your best bet in hedging against primary or secondary bacterial infections. Maracyn-2 is good; I like Nitrofuracin Green as a more broad-spectrum treatment when you're not 100% sure what's wrong with the fish, or if you know or suspect there may be more than one ailment affecting the fish.

 

[lkc]

Melafix is CRAP. Don't use it for anything but to line your garbage can. Can I say that here?

 

[MarinaP]

I like Nitrofuracin Green

Me too Any kind of Nitrofurazone works well.

Don't bother with Melafix.

 

[sabazerehi]

ok thanks guys, i'll try looking for that today. is it similar to malachite green?
but i must say, she's looking much better already today . i just checked on her and most of the white stuff that was on her tail is gone now. i'm going to start the formalin baths today and i'm very hopeful.
how long should i do the baths for, in terms of days? and is it possible to have her back in the tank by next week tues before i go out of town? and i think i'm going to give the male formalin baths just in case as well, should he be in the qt too? luckily they're easy to catch.

thanks sooo much!!

 

[MarinaP]

I am torn here about formalin baths. I agree it helps with problems other than brook, but I am not sure that your fish has "parasites"

Judging by the progression of your fish, she does not have brook. It does look to me like she has a burn. You throw her in Formalin, it will burn her skin even more.

I would wait on Formalin, and start her on antibiotics in hypo. IMHO, YMMV, etc

 

[sabazerehi]

well right now, on closer inspection, her fins are still raggedy looking, but her tail looks a little red and scabby (sorry i don't know how else to describe it and i can't get a good pic). her mouth is more gaping now. how could she have gotten a burn though if i haven't added any chemicals to the tank? and i got the fish at thanksgiving, so it's been a few weeks and they were fine the first two.

 

[MarinaP]

brook would have killed her long time ago (at least 3-5 days after flame angel was introduced).

You cannot dip the fish with open sores in formalin.

Sounds like secondary bacterial infection more and more. Original damage could have resulted from sticking her tail where it does not belong (corals? such as giant mushrooms)... Blast her with antibiotics and hope for the best.

 

[Jersey Bounce]

I am torn here about formalin baths. I agree it helps with problems other than brook, but I am not sure that your fish has "parasites"

Judging by the progression of your fish, she does not have brook. It does look to me like she has a burn. You throw her in Formalin, it will burn her skin even more.

I would wait on Formalin, and start her on antibiotics in hypo. IMHO, YMMV, etc

+10000 again! If she's showing reduced "brook-like" symptoms, I wouldn't bother with the formalin baths.

well right now, on closer inspection, her fins are still raggedy looking, but her tail looks a little red and scabby (sorry i don't know how else to describe it and i can't get a good pic). her mouth is more gaping now. how could she have gotten a burn though if i haven't added any chemicals to the tank? and i got the fish at thanksgiving, so it's been a few weeks and they were fine the first two.

If she's showing red streaks in the fins, that sounds like a bacterial infection. So, I'll 2nd what MarinaP said about starting her on anti-biotics and hyposalinity. PetSmart carries Maracyn-Two; are there any PetSmarts near you?

 

[sabazerehi]

i called an lfs about ordering some maracyn for me. i'll check out petsmart too, there isn't one too far from me and i really want to get her started on it asap. thanks so much guys!