What kind of bulbs generate heat?

[Austrarhyncus]

I'm planning on starting a very minimalistic system and I was wondering about using a light to heat the tank, instead of a traditional heater. Could this work and if so, what kind of light (e.g. T5, T8, LED etc) would be best for this? Yes, I am planning to keep coral.

 

[Diana A]

t5 and t8 give off a lot of heat. LEDs are cool.

 

[thegrun]

You are going to need a heater regardless of your lighting unless you live in a very warm climate. Your lights will only be running 12 hours a day, you need to maintain your water temperature all 24 hours. Metal Halide lighting produces the most heat, T-8 bulbs would be next in line in heat per watt followed by T-5s and lastly LEDs would produce the least amount of heat in the tank.

 

[Percula9]

You need a heater period.

 

[Austrarhyncus]

Oh, I guess I can't do this unless I hook up the tank with a sump, but this would ruin the system's minimalism.

 

[whosurcaddie]

You can still have it minimalist with a sump. Some equipment like a skimmer and a single reactor will make your life a lot easier. Without these things, your tank may be minimalist, but the work you will have to do to keep it viable for coral won't be.

 

[ReefkeeperZ]

you need a consistent heat source 24/7, where the heat comes from doesn't matter, keep the room the tank is in at about 80 degrees. then use whatever lights you want as long as they don't overheat the tank.

 

[Austrarhyncus]

The reasons that I want a minimalistic setup are:

a) minimalism and simplicity are key principles of the type of system I want (a pico vase/jar, you may have heard of brandon429's vase reef or Maritza the Vase Reef, two examples of highly successful pico vases).

b) I'm really pushing the extremes to the point where I might be way too ambitious, but I'm not just using a typical vase... I'm using a cup. Yes yes, get your laughs out, I admit it is a somewhat laughable endeavour. But moving to the point, no cup can fit a heater (unless a heater the size of a pen cap appeared on the market.

c) I have a very simple, clean, minimalistic system in mind (just imagine a row of cups, each with a single coral and an airstone being one of the few pieces of equipment, and any pipework, and thus, any sump would compromise my intentions.

So yeh, maybe I'm out of my mind, or maybe it's something worth trying.

 

[homer1475]

A cup as in 8oz of water? Your out of your mind. I can't think of a single fish or coral that would thrive in 8oz of water.

That would be like you living and never moving from a box a washing machine comes in.

Just because it can be done, doesn't mean its ethically right to do so.

 

[Austrarhyncus]

Yeh, thought I was. Didn't know corals actually need a minimum tank size.

 

[mcgyvr]

Yeh, thought I was. Didn't know corals actually need a minimum tank size.

Corals really don't have a minimum tank size..

And all bulbs generate heat.. Some more than others depending on the efficiency of the light source..

What you are wanting to do is certainly possible.. It just may not be feasible for many reasons..

The biggest reason being that with small amounts of water a small change can have a big effect on the water parameters and corals really need stable parameters..
Thats why "nano/pico",etc... tanks are generally said to be harder than larger tanks..

Then maintaining suitable water temperatures in such a small container can also be problematic.. You would essentially need something like a coffee cup warming plate on a proper thermal controller to cycle on/off as needed. or a warming plate/mat of some sort (certainly possible though).. The warming plate from a 3d printer first springs to mind..

 

[homer1475]

Wow reading what I typed came off kinda d*ckish! Certainly didn't mean it to be that way. Sorry.

While it certainly can be done, I just don't think its a very good idea. After owning a pico reef(3 gallons) I can attest to how much harder it is to maintain solid parameters then a larger tank. Considering your considering 1/3 of that volume, I wouldn't be afraid to say its nearly impossible.

 

[Austrarhyncus]

Nah, don't worry about it, you're alright Homer :beer:

But yeh, obviously a smaller tank would require more maintenance than a regular 20g (weekly 100% WCs) but it does have its perks compared to larger systems, such as being cheaper to setup and maintain (pretty much the only reason my cheap @$$ I can think of), also simpler and with fewer equipment.

I tried a pico and it didn't go great for the coral, but only coz my light was inadequate and my air pump died.

Couldn't I just use a heat source with a higher wattage to keep the temperature stable? Or is that not how temperature works?

20 years ago, such small systems were universally thought to be impossible, but nowadays, as a quick google search will show, vase reefs are possible and not as difficult as once thought.

While it is certainly possible to fail, I, being as stubborn as I am (sorry Homer), won't be swayed until I fail. Of course I'll do my best to make this experiment succeed. And if it doesn't, well hey at least I'll know for sure.

I'll look into those heat sources, cheers mcgyvr.

 

[homer1475]

I think if I were to attempt this, I would consider a sump of some sort. Have all the "cups" drain down to a single tank which could hold a heater, ATO, etc. While just leaving the "cups" as a display.

I would think having a single point where all the water collects would be easier to heat, dose, WC, etc, then several small containers independently. Basically a larger system with several small displays.

 

[Austrarhyncus]

That's what I had planned initially, it would certainly eliminate heating and instability problems, and make WCs easier, as you stated. I tried to design an overflow that didn't need me to drill the tank but I couldn't find any materials small enough and transparent. Might need to drill..... :eek2:

Though a sump would compromise simplicity, I'm more open to it if my coral benefits from it.

 

[homer1475]

RO/DI line with just a siphon as the "overflow"? Then another RO/DI line back into the DT fed through a airline gang valve to adjust the amount returning to the DT's?

I really have no idea, just throwing out some ideas.

Have someone 3d print some sort of C2C overflow that had a Utube instead of being drilled.

Are we actually talking round cups, or small square "tanks"?

 

[Austrarhyncus]

Actual round cups, though I could custom make small cube tanks if I wanted.

I've found that a siphon is highly unlikely to match the pump output, which is why I prefer overflows.

Not sure if this is actually similar to a C2C-type setup but maybe I could get a U tube, place one end into the cup, another end into a long tray running behind all the cups, and this tray could serve as sump?

 

[mcgyvr]

"If" I was to attempt a "multi-cup aquarium system" I personally would put all the cups in a single "trough" setup and simply let them overflow the rim of each cup with a single drain system in the trough.. (like a zero edge aquarium sump setup)..

I would also have each cup having a tube attached to the bottom of each cup that would be the return line and a normally closed valve before each such that if power were lost the solenoid valve would close thus preventing each cup from draining..

In this setup there would be no visible overflow piping nor any visible return piping..
I would use acrylic "cups" such that drilling/tapping a tube/fitting to the bottom would be easy..

I would use a sump of sufficient volume to basically negate the minimal water volume of the cups.. Like maybe a 40G sump..

 

[pisanoal]

"If" I was to attempt a "multi-cup aquarium system" I personally would put all the cups in a single "trough" setup and simply let them overflow the rim of each cup with a single drain system in the trough.. (like a zero edge aquarium sump setup)..

I would also have each cup having a tube attached to the bottom of each cup that would be the return line and a normally closed valve before each such that if power were lost the solenoid valve would close thus preventing each cup from draining..

In this setup there would be no visible overflow piping nor any visible return piping..
I would use acrylic "cups" such that drilling/tapping a tube/fitting to the bottom would be easy..

I would use a sump of sufficient volume to basically negate the minimal water volume of the cups.. Like maybe a 40G sump..

Really cool idea...

If using a trough though, instead of normally-closed solenoids, you could plumb a siphon break loop in. Just a simple leg, higher than the cups, drill a small hole, have it positioned so when its under pressure, the water from the hole drips down into the trough. A little harder to pull of aesthetically but more inline with the minimalist system you are trying to create.

Depending on where the set up is you could do this without seeing it.

Also for sumpless heat, you could try setting the "tank" on a heating mat plugged into a temperature controller. That way all you would have in the tank is the temp probe. Not sure if you would get enough heat transfer though, at the very least, would be very inefficient.

 

[Austrarhyncus]

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