When do you treat for ich?

[Johnseye]

This a potentially subjective topic so I'm creating a poll for objectivity and anonymity.
The question is when do you treat new fish for ich? As soon as you put the new fish in QT? After the new fish start eating? After a predertimened period of time? When the fish show symptoms? Or never?

There are a lot of factors to consider so I'd like to approach this from a do, and if when, or don't point of view.

Having trouble creating a poll. Stay tuned.

 

[snorvich]

So, majority rules?

 

[Spar]

i don't view this as a subjective question at all. it 100% comes down to your personal tolerance to the risks associated with contracting Ich or other parasites when (not if) it happens. if you have the time, money, space and equipment available to quickly correct a failed situation, then you are OK taking higher risks (not QT'ing, or even not going above-and-beyond to keep your tank pure). if you are like many of us, then you are lacking in one or all of those areas and need to QT and Treat everything and always.

No poll will settle that argument.

 

[Johnseye]

Poll's up.

My grandmother would always say, if everyone jumps off a cliff would you? This is not a vote to determine what people should do, but a poll to learn what the respondents are doing. Majority would not rule as we are not making decisions for others.

Spar, It is absolutely subjective as there are multiple paths individuals can take to deal with ich. These paths are based on factors, some of which you point out, that influence the decision. By the first two responses to this question you can already hear the emotion. I am not asking people whether they QT. That's not the question. The question is when do people treat for ich.

I will voice my opinion once there are responses to the poll and thread as I don't want to influence others votes.

 

[Johnseye]

Also keep in mind, I am not asking how you are treating for ich, only when. So if you introduce the fish into a hyposalinity QT, that would be "as soon as you put the new fish in QT."

 

[snorvich]

Poll's up.

My grandmother would always say, if everyone jumps off a cliff would you? This is not a vote to determine what people should do, but a poll to learn what the respondents are doing. Majority would not rule as we are not making decisions for others.

Spar, It is absolutely subjective as there are multiple paths individuals can take to deal with ich. These paths are based on factors, some of which you point out, that influence the decision. By the first two responses to this question you can already hear the emotion. I am not asking people whether they QT. That's not the question. The question is when do people treat for ich.

I will voice my opinion once there are responses to the poll and thread as I don't want to influence others votes.

There was no emotion at all in my response. Just a question of intent. And I cannot respond to your poll since you don't have the option I do available. On the other hand if you want to know what I do, read the stickies in this forum. :beer:

 

[Johnseye]

There was no emotion at all in my response. Just a question of intent. And I cannot respond to your poll since you don't have the option I do available. On the other hand if you want to know what I do, read the stickies in this forum. :beer:

What is the option you have available which isn't in the poll?

While I can't determine exactly whether or how much emotion was in your text, I'll take your word that it was merely probing intent. However, had I answered yes, I expect there would have been an interesting response.

I've read your stickies, which are invaluable. Thanks for everything. :thumbsup:

 

[snorvich]

Ich is not the biggest problem parasite, it is the least. People who have been doing this a long time tend to remove ich from the equation by doing tank transfer first. Many/most treat with Prazipro for flukes either during that 12 day period or in the 4 weeks of observation after tank transfer. The problem in today's world is that vendors that run a low level of copper in their system can mask parasites such as velvet, brook, or uronema and those will take down a tank rather quickly. The treatments appropriate to ich, velvet, brook, and uronema are different.

Also, stop trying to infer the response you will get from me as you have now been wrong twice.

 

[Dmorty217]

TTM followed by PP and observation. The two fish I have now will be in QT for 6 months. I try and emulate what Steve does since he is the resident disease expert

 

[Johnseye]

People who have been doing this a long time tend to remove ich from the equation by doing tank transfer first.

Also, stop trying to infer the response you will get from me as you have now been wrong twice.

When exactly do people who have been doing this a long time do a tank transfer?

Why did you ask me "So, majority rules?" I'm only trying to understand your intent since my inference was wrong.

 

[snorvich]

When exactly do people who have been doing this a long time do a tank transfer?

Fish are immediately added (after temperature acclimation) from the transport vehicle/bag to a tank matched with SG. Thus the tank transfer process starts. You can read the sticky on details.

Why did you ask me "So, majority rules?" I'm only trying to understand your intent since my inference was wrong.

That was before there were poll options. It is pretty much impossible to actually design a useful "poll" around parasite prevention so I was curious where you were going with it. Whether people quarantine is an interesting question, however, and it seems to depend on the value of the embedded fish base. The higher the value, the greater chance they have a quarantine protocol. If you collect four figure fairy wrasses or angels, you probablyy don't want to incur risk of not quarantining. But, again, ich is easy to prevent, it is the other parasites that are a nightmare.

 

[gone fishin]

I would suspect that aquarist that have been around for awhile and are successful follow a strict QT protocol. Others not so much.

 

[Johnseye]

Fish are immediately added (after temperature acclimation) from the transport vehicle/bag to a tank matched with SG. Thus the tank transfer process starts. You can read the sticky on details.

Based on your response here the poll answer would be "As soon as you put the new fish in QT". I had read your sticky. If I understand it correctly the method begins right away and continues for a total of 4 transfers

That was before there were poll options. It is pretty much impossible to actually design a useful "poll" around parasite prevention so I was curious where you were going with it.

The poll options were in my original post, just not in poll format. As I still don't have a clear understanding of the intent of your question I'll elect to let it go and not derail my intent of the post and thread.

I appreciate your input now, and everything you've posted in the past. Thanks.

 

[snorvich]

Treating ich with a 100% guarantee of success is not a trivial thing. Since the theront stage of the life cycle is the only stage susceptible to hyposalinity, copper, and CP, the normal 30 day treatment period may be insufficient in some cases due to the unpredictability of the back end of the life cycle which may release theronts 72 days into the process. Eliminating ich through tank transfer exploits the front end of the life cycle which is highly predictable and 100 percent effective if the process is followed correctly. But tank transfer is not treating ich, it is eliminating ich which is why your poll is inaccurate.

 

[Johnseye]

Treating ich with a 100% guarantee of success is not a trivial thing. Since the theront stage of the life cycle is the only stage susceptible to hyposalinity, copper, and CP, the normal 30 day treatment period may be insufficient in some cases due to the unpredictability of the back end of the life cycle which may release theronts 72 days into the process. Eliminating ich through tank transfer exploits the front end of the life cycle which is highly predictable and 100 percent effective if the process is followed correctly. But tank transfer is not treating ich, it is eliminating ich which is why your poll is inaccurate.

We're getting into semantics. Treating could be the beginning of eliminating. I never said treating with a 100% guarantee of success. For clarification, I am only looking to know when someone begins their treatment efforts in attempting to eliminate. I thought that was implied.

Definition of "Treat" - To subject to a process, action, or change, especially to a chemical or physical process or application.

I don't want to derail, debate, complicate or dive too deep into detail of what is a large topic of which you have already provided a wealth of information.

 

[Paul B]

No poll will settle that argument.

This is true.

 

[Johnseye]

if you are like many of us, then you are lacking in one or all of those areas and need to QT and Treat everything and always.

No poll will settle that argument.

This is true.

This poll is not about WHETHER or not to QT or treat or eliminate. It is asking WHEN people begin to treat for ich.

 

[Paul B]

It is asking WHEN people begin to treat for ich.

Yes I know that. "Any" poll, thought, inference, question, opinion, supposition, or theory about ich will cause an argument. But I hope not. Maybe you can get some calm responses. Good luck. :beer:

 

[ThRoewer]

Ich is not the biggest problem parasite, it is the least. ...

^^^ This. Ich is more of a nuisance than a threat. No one should loose a fish to it, it's just way too easy to prevent or treat. All the losses I see here come either from inexperience or from people who have tanks that are too large for the available support (QT/HT) capabilities to hold and treat all those fish out of the DT.

The things that scare me are velvet, uronema, vibro and other bacterial infections. Intestinal parasites can also be a pain to remove.

In the past I did not treat ich at all - I simply never had a tank wide outbreak, only single new fish or fish that got bullied getting a few spots. I just identified and fixed the problem and the spots went away (the fish's immune system took care of it).
Now, back then I cherry-picked my fish and made sure no new fish had any signs of an active infection. Also, new fish went usually into a new tank I had set up for them (back then I was collecting clownfish pairs and other pairs of fish for breeding).
Most my tanks were small (below 150 liters) and had only 4 to 6 small fish in them - the clownfish were usually the largest.

Also I did not have any tangs or the like (which are IMHO among the most ich prone fish you can have in a home tank).

And most importantly - I bought almost all my fish directly from a high quality importer, ideally only a few days after they arrived.

If there is one thing I learned, then it is that in 99.9% fish don't come with an ich infection from the wild - they acquire it in the wholesale or local fish store systems. So the sooner you get them out there the better.

These days I'm a bit more careful since all stores around here have some ich, or brook problems going on. All new fish get a formalin and freshwater dip and then get quarantined for 2 to 3 months and treated as needed.

I still only treat ich when I see an infection and even then, only when it escalates.
However, all fish will go through TTM at some point before entering my new tank - but that I consider prevention and not treatment.

 

[snorvich]

It is starting to sound like this was intended to cause "emotional responses". Many people ask questions or start polls around emotional issues with the intention of causing controversy or to validate what they do. That usually does not end well.