Brian,
I, like others in this thread, have followed this closely. And as you requested, I stayed out of it and gave the mods time to look into the issue. It's now been over two weeks and I think we had all thought this would be resolved by now, but it hasn't and it appears hobbyists who raise fish (and one person in particular) are getting the short end of the stick. Hence, the questions are coming......
When this all went down initially, I reviewed the user agreement we all have access to at the bottom of every RC page. And if you want to discuss the issue in general terms, vice mwp specific terms, it really does come down to the definition of "commercial", explaining the difference between selling frags and fish (if there is an unofficial difference in how they're handled), and then equitable application of that policy.
Current policy seems to be that you can set up dedicated tanks to raise and sell frags, offer to ship, and have multiple frag packs available every month for $200+ each, without being deemed commercial. (If that's not allowed, then a 30 second search of the propogated livestock forum for "frag packs" will provide the mods with multiple regular offenders). That policy appears to be unofficial...hence confusing, and also seems to be biased to us and contradictory to the user agreement.
So what's the difference between a hobbyist having a larvae growout tank and selling the survivors and a hobbysit with a frag tank constantly selling frags?
IMHO, the current definition of "commercial" in the agreement applies to anyone who sells a single frag, or piece of chaeto, etc as they're "seeking commerce", "economic benefit" and "relief". Unfortunately, it is not in fact clear at all. I am by no means suggesting that the opportunity for hobbyists to sell their surplus should be done away with...just saying it's not clear.
But I would suggest the following since the definition/policy needs work:
Given the sometimes exorbitant costs of this hobby, posters should be given the benefit of the doubt and be considered hobbyists vice businesses, unless additional evidence indicated otherwise.
Update or clear up the confusion about what is and isn't allowed when it comes to selling fish/frags. Explain it so we're not all guessing.
Equitably enforce whatever the policy is. IMHO....that's not being done now, but that's based on my own interpretation of a cloudy policy.
Mods might want to consider another status category for members other than "moved on" which, based on past observations, has seemed to be permanent.
I would also second the suggestion than an explanation of the review/appeal process be available, rather than leaving everyone in the dark and guessing. Mods make mistakes too (I can think of a couple notable arguments between mods over the years ;-) ). Might help those of us who get into trouble some day.
Sorry this is so long. I'd intended to send another request for an update to Frank tonight before posting something in the feedback forum, but since this topic came up again here....I'd have no problem with moving this thread there if that's more appropriate. I think we're all capable of talking about this and guess I've missed the posts that killed the idea of further discussion.
Tom
I understand the difficulty in watching and really can care less about the whole frag argument, although relevant. I think that frequence or sales/trade, exchanges is the main issue. Then again where do you draw that line? I do feel for this dilemma and am patently awaiting further cooperation in resolving any issue. I realize that mods have a difficult task, so if it's a matter of people standing up to help with issues instead of just complaining about them, I will offer any help I can do, if help is required. Feel free to PM or post. Sometime I just feel like a hypocrite talkin' with no action, so I offer anyway I can help. Thanks again...Carl
