Who's dosing vodka? And why?

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15544996#post15544996 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trueblackpercula
Wow that's not even funny the tank is insane looking. The vodka method I knew worked just not to that level though. Congrats on such an inspirational system makes me look forward to strid for that look.

Thanks. It's a 5 year old tank, and over that time is has grown in nicely.

How many tanks theses days you think are dosing vodka???? In any case thanks for posting pictures.
When you first started dosing vodka did you have and negative/side affects to report, I guess what I am asking is how long befor you really noticed your sps/corals gain health/color/growth.

I started dosing on July 14th, 2008. The only thing that bugged me was the presence of cyano bacteria in certain spots in my reef. I never used anything to wipe it out, and it never got a firm hold in my system. It was just one of those things that bugged me. Here's a picture of my tank from last August.
http://melevsreef.com/pics/08/07/fts_angled_LG_0723.jpg

You won't see much cyano, but it was in a few spots and I'd just turkey baster it off when I grew annoyed enough to take down the canopy.

They were already growing, which I tend to believe was due to the better lighting the Lumenbright Pendant reflectors provided. My goal was to drop my nitrates from 35 to 0, so they would grow better. I hoped to see more color as well, if it worked.

I dosed vodka for seven months, and that is when they finally dropped. It took two or three weeks to drop them to 0, and then they stayed down that low for a two or three months. I reduced the amount of vodka dosed daily, and nitrates have risen a little. This is why I increased the dose about two months ago, as I'd like to get them down again to 0. I think the additional feedings are the primary reason the began to rise at all.

I have only been dosing since July 28th of this year and nitrates ar at .15 to .25 something like that. But the PO4 is zero already and what has me a little confused is that I am getting red cyno again is there any relationship with zero PO4 and cyno? I am also dosing MB7 two drops per day if that means anything.
I know I need to take my time and let the carbon dosing work
Michael Anthony
many many thanks to all that have helped me on this journey

Cyano bacteria isn't a disease or something evil in our tanks, other than we don't like looking at it and it can kill some snails. When you don't see it, it is still present and doing it's normal thing. However, when it blooms, we notice and and get all worked up. You'll notice the livestock for the most part doesn't seem to care one bit.

Dosing vodka can cause it to become more abundant in some tanks. The stuff I saw in my tank pretty much remained present, not really growing into anything big nor destructive. When I reduced the daily dosage, it pretty much faded away. Now that I'm dosing a higher amount, it's visible again in a few spots, including my refugium.

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15545228#post15545228 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trueblackpercula
Here is a picture of what i am talking about lower left hand corner and 3/4 of the way to the right. a week ago i had none now its back again and I don't know why nothing different.

I would turn off all the circulation in the tank, scrape it together to one spot, and siphon it out. Then turn the pumps back on.

Out of sight, out of mind.

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15545760#post15545760 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Fingers68
Mmm interesting, same setup as I, bar I dont use the deep sand bed.

Live rock
Skimmer
Requiem (mine is only 8 weeks old)

No reason I could not give this a go. From what I have gathered you basically dose till you get your PO4 to 0, is this right?

If so I guess you need a very good test kit, Salifert not being good enough as this shows 0 for my water already.

Now it also has to be said that your tank would have looked good and was doing well before you started the Vodka. So what has been the difference and did you get any nasty surprises? And one more thing, now your fully into the Vodka, can you go back to the wagon so to speak, stop dosing it to your tank. Or now your in, your in and theres no going back other wise your system will crash?

You have three months' experience in the hobby. I don't recommend this for your tank. Since you already are reading 0 Phosphates, what's the point? If you want more color, which you will see in about nine more months anyway, just add more blue lighting to your tank. New tanks take 9 to 12 months to mature, and they truly are not a good candidate for vodka dosing.

I didn't get any nasty surprises because I stuck to the advice in the article and followed the recipe closely, as directed.

If I wanted to stop dosing vodka, I could. I'd just have to revert to skimming more wet, and use a product like GFO to remove PO4. And I'd have to feed less to avoid nitrate getting out of control again. And I'd have to do more water changes. I don't really see a reason to stop dosing vodka, as it is easy, inexpensive, and has worked well in my tank.

Your mileage may vary.

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15546514#post15546514 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trueblackpercula
So us vodka dosing folks have to live with cyno or is there another magic bullet? I am very happy with vodka/carbon dosing to date and would not go back is there any other pointers that we rookies should know?
Thanks keep the information rolling.
Michael Anthony

You don't have to have cyano on the sandbed, and usually when I see any, it is on my rockwork somewhere. The sand in my tank tends to stay nice and clean.

I just finished leveling it out again yesterday, after changing the orientation of the flow in my tank a little. As you can see, it is nice and white. Not all the lights were on when I took this picture today.

 

[Fingers68]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15548454#post15548454 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
I would turn off all the circulation in the tank, scrape it together to one spot, and siphon it out. Then turn the pumps back on.

Out of sight, out of mind.



You have three months' experience in the hobby. I don't recommend this for your tank. Since you already are reading 0 Phosphates, what's the point? If you want more color, which you will see in about nine more months anyway, just add more blue lighting to your tank. New tanks take 9 to 12 months to mature, and they truly are not a good candidate for vodka dosing.

I didn't get any nasty surprises because I stuck to the advice in the article and followed the recipe closely, as directed.

If I wanted to stop dosing vodka, I could. I'd just have to revert to skimming more wet, and use a product like GFO to remove PO4. And I'd have to feed less to avoid nitrate getting out of control again. And I'd have to do more water changes. I don't really see a reason to stop dosing vodka, as it is easy, inexpensive, and has worked well in my tank.

Your mileage may vary.

Thanks Melev,

Its more like 6 months now, and on to my second tank (180g)

So the Vodka is just to keep the PO4 and Nitrate in check?, I have unreadable values of both using salifert tests. So I am very happy indeed with my water, I guess no need to Vodka. This new tank is only 3 months old and is just starting to settle down after a vicious cyno attack so I guess I will be best to just leave well alone and just continue the way I am 15% water change every 4 weeks, as this seems to be working good.

It is very interesting this vodka dosing though.

 

[melev]

From this article: Vodka Dosing...Distilled! A Powerful Method for the Reduction of Nitrates and Phosphates within the Reef Aquaria

Users note a dramatic decrease in nitrate and phosphate molecules, while others note increased coral coloration and clearer water.

That is but a snippet. Take the time to read the article in its entirety please. I still think your tank is far too young to need this.

 

[ultra spikey]

I used to dose sugar in my tank a couple years ago to accomplish this same thing. Are there any advantages/disadvantages with sugar?

 

[tmz]

Certain strains of bacteria are advantaged by one type of organic carbon or the other. Vodka, vinegar and sugar are often used together to encourage diversity. Commercial products( contents unknown)are often advertised to support a diversity of bacteria and prevent "monocultures".
So while vodka and sugar will provide bacteria with organic carbon, the cultures will likely be different. Many reported success with sugar ,vodka or vinegar alone. Anecdotaly, I used all three for a . I stopped the sugar and cyano abated.

 

[Sisterlimonpot]

Tom,
So now your only dosing vodka and vinegar.... Do you dose them equally or at different percentages?

 

[trueblackpercula]

Once again thank you so much for the information on your vodka dosing. At any time did you notice any problems with missing days a dose not saying you did just asking. Also after I achieve my goal of zero N and P and cut my dose down to half of what it is will N And P creap back up or dose it stay at zero as long as I continue to keep the dising steady and half the rate? I know a read the link many times and it does say to cut it to half but in time will n and p will rise again,but others around here are not reporting that. Could adding sugar and vinager maybe stop that. Is there any dosing instructions for sugar and vinager? You talked about dosing vodka with only 5 water changes over a
long period of time do you recommend this for smaller systems like 100 gallons or less?
I am starting to really get into this and I have been telling everyone I know about it and they think I am crazy. The first thing the say is it the vodka that you drink????? It's been a fun ride so far and hope it keeps going.
Thanks
Michael Anthony

 

[tmz]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15550660#post15550660 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sisterlimonpot
Tom,
So now your only dosing vodka and vinegar.... Do you dose them equally or at different percentages?

Hi,

I dose 18mlvodka and 3 ml vinegar in the am and another 6ml vodka in the pm daliy for 550gallons .

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15553507#post15553507 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trueblackpercula
Once again thank you so much for the information on your vodka dosing. At any time did you notice any problems with missing days a dose not saying you did just asking. Also after I achieve my goal of zero N and P and cut my dose down to half of what it is will N And P creap back up or dose it stay at zero as long as I continue to keep the dising steady and half the rate? I know a read the link many times and it does say to cut it to half but in time will n and p will rise again,but others around here are not reporting that. Could adding sugar and vinager maybe stop that. Is there any dosing instructions for sugar and vinager? You talked about dosing vodka with only 5 water changes over a
long period of time do you recommend this for smaller systems like 100 gallons or less?
I am starting to really get into this and I have been telling everyone I know about it and they think I am crazy. The first thing the say is it the vodka that you drink????? It's been a fun ride so far and hope it keeps going.
Thanks
Michael Anthony

At some point during this thread, Genetics told me not to cut my dose in half (maintenance dose). He felt that with my system and the DSB, that I'd probably be best by only reducing it by 1/3. That is why I changed from 15ml to 10ml. I'm back up to 12.5ml daily.

If you miss a dose, you miss it. Don't double up the next day to make up for it. Just resume at the correct ml you were previously dosing.

There's nothing wrong with water changes, and I'm going to go back to monthly changes myself. I change 55g at a time, which is about 20% of my net system.

Telling others is fine. Just don't convince them to do it until you've had some good experience under your belt, or be honest and let them know that you hope it works and you are in the process of giving it a 'shot'.

 

[impur]

Whew i'm going dizzy reading all the vodka threads in anticipation of starting dosing in my tank. I currently have 0 readings of both NO3 and PO4. I would like to try and starve out this red turf algae that is the bane of my reef keeping existence. I have tried literally everything to get rid of it to no avail. So this is a last ditch effort before i tear down my whole tank and start from scratch by cooking the rock. It would be a nice byproduct to get a little more color out of my SPS as well.

Since I am unable to detect any NO3 or PO4, I plan to start at about .6ml of 40 proof on my 75gal tank with roughly 85 NET gal.

Now my questions:

Should i go along with the schedule outlined in the reefkeeping article, upping the amount each week? How would I know when i've reached the maximum then, since I am unable to use NO3 and PO4 as a gauge?

Would it be advisable in my situation to start at the low .6ml amount and up it the following week, then keep it at that level for a few weeks to see how it affects the turf algae?

I'm thinking the only way to monitor how it is affecting my tank is the algae and corals, and i definitely do not want to overdose here. It seems like it will be a bit more challenging without NO3 and PO4 as a gauge.

TIA!!!

 

[trueblackpercula]

Well I will try and answer your question. Dosing vodka may work for you and going slow is a great idea. Will it kill/fight off your red cotton algea maybe it worked for me. No as for dosing instruction please reread the thread and it will tell you to dose until your N and P go to zero this will tell you when you have reached the correct dosing level. At that point your as supposed to cut the dosing level to half. The other question not sure but someone soon will chime in.
Good luck and please reread the post were there is a hyper link to the artical by genetics post.
Michael Anthony

 

[Genetics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15557183#post15557183 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by impur

Now my questions:

Should i go along with the schedule outlined in the reefkeeping article, upping the amount each week? How would I know when i've reached the maximum then, since I am unable to use NO3 and PO4 as a gauge?

Would it be advisable in my situation to start at the low .6ml amount and up it the following week, then keep it at that level for a few weeks to see how it affects the turf algae?

I'm thinking the only way to monitor how it is affecting my tank is the algae and corals, and i definitely do not want to overdose here. It seems like it will be a bit more challenging without NO3 and PO4 as a gauge.

TIA!!!

Yes, I would recommend going with the RK article on dosing. Also, you are correct in the assumption of looking at the algae to gauge dosing. The algae will diminish or will not regrow when removed when you find a decent dose for your tank. When you do find a level that works, I would not cut your dose in half but continue at the same dose indefinitely.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Same question when my n and p go to zero to I cut the dose to half or not?
Thank you
using 80 proof vodka and mb7 only at this time.

 

[impur]

Great, thanks for the reply Nate and you too Michael. Keep updating i've been following your posts on this!


Just to add, i'll be dosing MB7 as well AA after about a month of dosing.

 

[Genetics]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=15557807#post15557807 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by trueblackpercula
Same question when my n and p go to zero to I cut the dose to half or not?
Thank you
using 80 proof vodka and mb7 only at this time.

When using nitrate/phosphate levels I would cut your levels by 50% to start with when you hit undetectable levels. Over the next few weeks your levels might start to creep up and you can quickly add vodka back to the levels you were at if need be. It seems most are fine around 60% cut back while others are 80-90% to keep N/P in check. It varies based on your tank setup but the main point is to reduce when parameters are in order.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Wow the light went on in my little head and final after that last post do I fully understand.
Thank you so very much on e again.
Michael Anthony

 

[trueblackpercula]

Have a question that was brought up in sunnyx thread. I think it's agreat idea and would like to know if it can be done. Let say a max out at 4 ml a day of vodka 80 proof to keep N and P down to zero.
Now my daily dose would be let's say around 50% I know it might be some what higher but just to make it easy for the answer. That means that I would be dosing 2 mls a day.
Now here's the kicker I want to add that 2ml to my two park dosing pump on either the calcium side or the alkalinty side could it be done????
If it can be done I would base the amount on my daily dose or per gallon of make up solution?
Michael Anthony

 

[Reef_Matrix29]

My additional question would be if adding the vodka to either side of your two part solution would have any chemical interactions that are not desireable or haven't been looked at just yet. Any thoughts?