Why are my LPS corals dying?

F

FLTmpaBay

New member
My husband has some experience is saltwater tanks - much more than I. I just started 50 days ago, the age of my tank.

I had hairy & striped mshs, 2-green torch, 2 Star polyps, Bubble tip & a trumpet (and some crabs & snails). Everything died after a phosphate spike (I was told). I was putting in Purple Up and feeding them Phytoplankton. I stopped the purpleup, did a 10% water change and cleaned the tank, replaced filters.

This is a 75g. reef tank

EQUIPMENT:
Gamma UV Aqua Ultraviolet Sterilizer, Emperor Power Filter 280-400, NOVA Extreme T5 HO 4-Lunar, 2-Day, 2 Artic Blue, Sea Clone Protein Skimmer 100-150 and Maxi-Jet Pump & Powerhead 400-1200 and (5 powerheads all together).

FISH:
Yellow Tang, Coral Beauty, 2 True Percula, Bl. Hippo Tang, 2 Cardinal, Diamond Wtch. Goby, Firefish, misc. emerald crabs & cleaner shrimp. (I added the total inches and feel I'm about 5 in. overstocked).

After that, I purchased an anemone which I have not seen in a week. I have also purchased and currently have the following:

CORALS:
Sun Polyps - bottom of tank-shaded
Green Brain- bottom of tank-in light
Devils Hand- on top of live rock
Ricordea Msh.- bottom w/light-on live rock
Green Torch.- on live rock - bottom,w/light

They corals looked good for about 3 days and now the sun polyps have a little hole in the center w/a little brown around it. The devils hand is drooping over, ricordea is not opening and outer bulbs are turning deep purple. None of them are opening up - although the brain looks decent and appears to be eating.

The question is where am I going wrong? I read I should expect fatalities in the 1st 6-mos. and I do but the guilt of killing coral is getting to me. Any advice from the seasoned is greatly appreciated. The corals have become an obsession for both my husband and I and we want to do it right.
 
sorry about your loss first of all.that seems like alot of stuff for such a new tank.how much live rock in the tank and did you let it cycle before adding all the live stock?might want to post this in the new to hobby forum.good luck
 
Lot of problems at first glance: lps are not soft corals. They are stonies. Stonies and soft corals do not mix well: softies put out a chemical to retard stony growth. Stonies have sweepers with which they reach out to sting their neighbors after dark. You should be running carbon to try to eliminate this chemical and spacing your stonies carefully to keep them from harming one another.

Filters are pretty much a no-no if you keep corals, because they collect nitrate and pass it into your tank. You should have live rock and live sand in sufficient amount for tank size, 4" sandbed and 1-2 lbs of live rock per gallon.

I hate to ask, but did you cycle your tank?

Your parameters for keeping coral ought to be:
NO ammonia, nitrate, or nitrite.
Alkalinity 8.3-9.3; calcium 400-450. Ph 8.3, salinity 1.025. Temperature 78-80 range.

You should be dosing calcium with that kind of load, if they're growing, to keep it in range; ditto dkh buffer.

If any of these items are out of parameters or if in some remote case you are new to this and don't know what on earth I've just said, please continue this thread and any number of people will be happy to help solve the problems.

Y
 
Yes, I let the tank cycle before adding fish.
I thought the devils hand was a mistake - are the other coral ok? They are well spaced apart to eliminate any touching the other. The filter is something I didn't know about w/corals. There is no sandbed in the tank at all, only crushed coral. Thanks for the info on the carbon - embarrassingly enough, I don't know anything about it it and will research that a.s.a.p. I am dosing w/calcium & dkh. What should I do w/ the devils hand?
 
you can keep the devils hand.many people keep softies and lps in the same tank.crushed coral is fine also.you can get the carbon at your local fish store put some in a filter bag and throw it in your sump
 
Hi,your tank is still very new & will still be going through cycles for a while.I wouldn't add anything else to the tank for a decent while & just let the tank become stable.You have a heavy bio-load for such a new tank.What are you using for your make up & top off water(such as RO/DI)?If you don't already have some,purchase some quality test kits & check your tank water,as well as your make up water,incase something is off.If something is off,then start doing regular water changes with good quality water.Just remember,if you have to change or add anything to the tank,do it gradually.The more patience you have,the better & more stable reef you'll end up with.Good luck & hope some of this is helpful.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8391586#post8391586 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
Stonies and soft corals do not mix well: softies put out a chemical to retard stony growth.......You should be running carbon to try to eliminate this chemical
Click to expand...

Hi Sk8r, do you have any further information on this statement, would be glad to see some reading material.....cheers
 
I don't have any books or reference, sorry to say: all of mine went in the move. I think if you google same, it will turn up...I'll fill in what I know, so you can find buzzwords. And there might be something in the RC mag archives.

I had an encrusting leather that used to upset my whole tank---1oo gal of water, and that guy could cause every other coral to retract. They do this when the alkalinity drops a bit, when hit or bumped, when touched by a stony sweeper---or nipped by a fish. It's their defense. The ones I've personally heard referenced as the worst neighbors for stonies are sinularia and toadstool, particularly leathers with a waxy coating. Corals of whatever persuasion use chemical warfare, just stonies do it with sweepers or polyps, and softies tend to emote into the water when offended. They don't do it all the time, to be sure: if you can run carbon and keep sopping up the spare irritation-chemicals and keep your alkalinity bang-on, it really helps. I've run mixed tanks myself: they're a bit of a struggle, and if you put the leathers downwind, last in the water stream, everything works better. HTH.
 
I should have posted in the LPS section, but I'm not sure how to move this. The green torch slimed apart and was removed this morning. The devils hand is on the other end of the tank and I don't want to throw it out. The other corals look good but are closed. I am not running carbon or a sump. There is no sand. I do have a filter. I have to study more on corals obviously.
In the meantime, I'll stop buying coral and give this tank some time to age.
Thanks for all your help.
 
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8397439#post8397439 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Sk8r
I don't have any books or reference, sorry to say: all of mine went in the move. I think if you google same, it will turn up...I'll fill in what I know, so you can find buzzwords. And there might be something in the RC mag archives.

I had an encrusting leather that used to upset my whole tank---1oo gal of water, and that guy could cause every other coral to retract. They do this when the alkalinity drops a bit, when hit or bumped, when touched by a stony sweeper---or nipped by a fish. It's their defense. The ones I've personally heard referenced as the worst neighbors for stonies are sinularia and toadstool, particularly leathers with a waxy coating. Corals of whatever persuasion use chemical warfare, just stonies do it with sweepers or polyps, and softies tend to emote into the water when offended. They don't do it all the time, to be sure: if you can run carbon and keep sopping up the spare irritation-chemicals and keep your alkalinity bang-on, it really helps. I've run mixed tanks myself: they're a bit of a struggle, and if you put the leathers downwind, last in the water stream, everything works better. HTH.
Click to expand...

Cheers Sk8r, has whetted the appetite for more research now, I dont keep leathers or toadstools so safe there. Thanks for your time as always m8 and apologies to the poster for hijacking......hope you get to the bottom of the problems youre facing and for my 2p It does seem to me that you have stocked in too much of a hurry and just may have unsettled the chemical balances. Your live rock will certainly not have built up enough nitrosomas bacteria to establish themselves when they are in competition with the externals - what circulation do you have around/through the LR ? The externals are one of the problems - the pads and media may leech nitrate back into the tank. Have you tested the water since establishing the tank for phosphate (PO4) or Nitrate (PO3)...... ??
 
As for the carbon check your local fish store or petco,whatever. Theres a filter pad that you can cut to size with carbon inbedded in it's fibers, for a quick fix but can get expenisive if you dont find more of a bulk buy option. Or by some carbon at any LFS and put in a vinyl filter sack and put in your filter thingy you do have. This can subside chemical issues within hours as well as make your water look very clean.

With the bio load, there some good advice given. The reason you want to go gradually is you need to give your "good" bacteria time to populate to account for the added bio load(fish&critters) if your on a serious mission to get your max of fish in there, do so no faster than at least 1 fish every 2 weeks. The longer spaced the more safe of course. And also keep in mind for every critter you add in there the more serious your regimine of cleaning and weekly husbandry becomes, any filter pads should be cleaned or replaced every 3-4 days, as the material they catch will break down and decay within that time and will inturn leach back into your system in the form of nitrates and phosphates.

I empathize whole heartedly for your frustrations and unwillingness to harm any more fish or coral, as it should be ;) And applaud you for coming here to ask. Hopefully you will continue to come here and hopefully before you buy anything else, or take anyone's advice. A wealth of knowledge passes through these forums that you just can't get at at your local fish store and will save you a big stack of bills and more importantly your peice of mind. Good luck to you both:)

-Justin
 
Hi There,
I second the congratulations from Justin on coming here to get some sound advice and learn. There is so much to know and all sorts of equipment you may or may not need. Remember most local fish stores are interested in return customers and don't always give the best advice or in the least send you home with way to much stuff way to quick. Remember this: Nothing good happens fast in reef tanks. Go slow is my motto, though hard to do sometimes :). I am glad to help you out throgh PM if you would like as well as in this thread.

Many things come to mind...first off 45commando had good advice on getting some good quality test kits. You can order these for half the price online at some of the sponsors here at RC. Personally I like Salifert test kits but also really like LaMotte. Salifert is cheaper and accurate. The test kits you need right now are Ammonia, Nitrate, Nitrite, alk, calcium to get going. I specified ammonia test kit because of the newness of your tank and the deaths going on...once things are settled down for a few months ammonia becomes irrelevent as the ecosystem in the tank is taking care of eveything. Nitrite is another thing to test for early on but once all is well that becomes failry irrelevent as well. The others are important for the duration. I would also recommend that you get yourself a refractometer to test salinity, don't rely on the old swing arm bar thingy you get at the lfs, it is usually off. Most people also use a RO/DI water treatment kit to get their local tap water impurities to a very low level so the water we are putting into the tank is very clean. These kits are expensive but pay for themselves quickly as good water quality=live corals and fish...rather than replacement corals and replacement fish over time. It is also possible to run a tank without the gravel or sand. I choose to run a barebottom tank but ran a deepsand bed for years prior to this...many different ways to skin the cat. Your gravel is a detritus catcher so be sure, if you choose to keep it, that you vacuum it regularly. Snails and other sand critters will be cut up trying to get around on the gravel so a cleanup crew is a bit more difficult when using gravel. Do not add anymore animals until things get settled down and you have some stability.

As far as fish...way overboard on the fish. It is not a good measure to use the inches per gallon rule. What you need to know is the needs of the fish you have interest in. Tangs really should not be in any tank under 5-6ft wit 100+ gallons. They are big swimmers and cruise vast amounts of territory in the ocean. Conversly clownfish are relatively small and stay within feet of there host anemone, by nature they are not crusing around. You also should consider the temperment of the fish in relation to each other. Even if your tangs are relatively small now, once they grow they will start ot compete for the small space in your tank. This leads to agression and stress for all inhabitants in the tank. there is a great book by Scott W. Micheals called the PocketGuide to Fishes...excellent resource, a must have and you can find it on amazon used for next to nothing. Get it, you'll enjoy reading all about many different fish and what their needs are. This is just a start but I'll PM you with other suggestions. Oh yea, remember these are just suggestions, as I said there are many ways to do this hobby and you have to find your way that works for you. Some things are non-negotiable though...like going very slowly. Good luck and keep asking questions, you are in the right place to learn so much and get to a place where you can sit back and enjoy your little slice of the reef.
 
Just keep posting. Get those test kits so we've got real numbers to work with. Your rig is generally very good: you're in a far better situation than might have been, because of generally good equipment. If we know amount of rock, that helps, and one thing good to know is alkalinity: that affects a lot of things. Corals will survive the calcium being off a bit, but alkalinity and ph or the presence of ammonia show up in fish and coral comfort very fast. DKh buffer enables you to change the alkalinity to an optimal reading. Carbon will remove toxins from the water column. A 10% water change will lower nitrate/ammonia readings.
 
I'm thinking I should upgrade 75g. to 110g., set-up RO and a wet/dry filter. I have not been testing for all the tests recommended by Sk8r. Alkalinity I have for sure not been testing.

Slojmn is going to help me out. Everyone has really been nice. Thanks everyone for all the help.
 
Everyone has brought up some good points. Instead of repeating what the others have said, I'll tell you my motto for reef tanks. "Only bad things happen fast in a reef tank." I hate to say it , but if I were too guess you will more than likely lose most of what you have invested in your tank. The recession you are observing in your lps corals is more than likely contagious. With the amount of stress they have endured their future looks grim.

However, take heart. You can chalk this up to experience. When everything settles down, I strogly suggest reading some material on natural reef keeping methods. There is a large quantity of material to choose from.(I enjoyed Professor Tullock's approach) If your serious about the hobby, just keep in mind that most pictures of those magnificent reef tanks you'll see are yrs old. Best of luck to you.
 
Everyone has brought up some good points. Instead of repeating what the others have said, I'll tell you my motto for reef tanks. "Only bad things happen fast in a reef tank." I hate to say it , but if I were to guess you will more than likely lose most of what you have invested in your tank. The recession you are observing in your lps corals is more than likely contagious. With the amount of stress they have endured their future looks grim.

However, take heart. You can chalk this up to experience. When everything settles down, I strongly suggest reading some material on natural reef keeping methods. There is a large quantity of material to choose from.(I enjoyed Professor Tullock's approach) If your serious about the hobby, just keep in mind that most pictures of those magnificent reef tanks you'll see are yrs old. Best of luck to you.
 
take ur time we al make mistakes hopefully the enxt one is not as expensive> PATIENCE IS A VIRTUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
I found out that the thermometer in the tank was not working right. I bought a new one and it read 87.8 degrees!!

All the fish are fine - I have no idea why. I am buying a chiller today. I found one for $400 at Get Tanked. I raised the light a bit by adding legs and I am bringing the temp down slowly by keeping my canopy off and turning the air conditioning in the house down.

The only coral that survived was the devils hand. All my tests are right on and I finally caught the Damsel this morning! The immediate calmess in the tank was unreal as my firefish, clowns and Goby instantly came to life and out of hiding.

I was doing a 10% water changes every Friday, but I was reading that I should be doing 4-5g. water changes every 4-5 days. Is this correct?

Thanks
 
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