Why Did All My Nems Eventually Pass?

[WaffleWalffle22]

Before I consider getting another anemone for the new tank I'm setting up in 3 months, I want to know why all my anemones in my 34 gallon eventually died. I loved a few so much that I overfed them when I was new to nems, and others were bleached when I got them when I was also new to nems. My lighting shouldn't have been a problem and my clownfish were not abusive. I have to admit that I don't test my ammonias, nitrates, and nitrites much because they don't test accurately, but when I do I always get a reading of 0ppm. I use the API test kits for all my testing and with pH and phosphates it works fine. I haven't had an anemone in the tank for 3-4 months which was when my last one died. All of the anemones I had with the exception of the first one were extremely healthy and they all eventually died. Sometimes in the summers my temperature would swing between 80F at night and 84F in the day. In retrospect I probably should've propped the hood of the tank open or something. I have a pair of black ocellaris clownfish in the tank that lay eggs every 12 days. The tank is packed with various zoas and shrooms, and I have three colonies of Euphyllia in the tank too.

Possible Causes (that I can think of):

- Ammonias/nitrates/nitrites (possibly)
- Temperature swings in the summer
- Cursed tank

What could be some other causes? I would say that my parameters like pH and salinity are stable since there's a regularly spawning pair of clownfish in the tank. I fed all of my anemones once per week or so with Premysis, brine shrimp, or Rod's food so I don't think feeding was an issue.

I'd really like to keep just one anemone in my new tank since I'm gonna have clownfish in it, so at least I'm trying to get help before I possibly get another.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Nebthet]

There could be a number of reason for the decline in your anemones. Most should not even be considered until after the 6 months mark for a tank being up and running.

What type of anemones have you been trying to keep?

Testing is also a necessity when keeping anemones to determine if there is anything causing the decline. Make sure your test kits are not old as well, as those ones will give you false readings.

Overfeeding will definitely cause a decline in a tank, especially if you don't increase your water changes. But you are stating you only feed them once per week, so that is not considered over feeding. Also, when you are feeding, make sure the food is the same temperature as the water. No anemone likes cold or frozen food. It will bother them.

Do you have any shrimp in your tank? I had a cleaner shrimp that caused the death of a Green BTA I had as it would steal the food right out of the anemones mouth, no matter how much I fed it prior to feeding the anemone. This caused undue stress to the anemone and it continued to decline. Now I do not keep shrimp in my tank at all.

What type of lighting do you have on your tank and what is your light cycle?

The fact your clowns keep on spawning is not necessarily an indication that your tank parameters are fine. They should always be checked. It is those small changes in the environment that we don't notice that make a huge difference.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

What type of anemones have you been trying to keep?

Only BTAs

Make sure your test kits are not old as well, as those ones will give you false readings.

I'll get new test kits after Christmas

Overfeeding will definitely cause a decline in a tank, especially if you don't increase your water changes.

I think I used to overfeed my fish, but I've cut way back on feeding now. Would that have any affect on the nems?

Do you have any shrimp in your tank?

I did but he died from old age last year. He was a few years old. My last anemone died after he was dead...

What type of lighting do you have on your tank and what is your light cycle?

110w 50/50 PC. It's the stock lighting for the RSM130. The lighting cycle when I had anemones started at 8:30 AM and turned off at 6:00 PM, so that would be 9 hours 30 minutes per day.

My answers are in red.

 

[velvetelvis]

Is it possible that the anemones were stung by the Euphyllias? I ask because I've had problems with that genus of corals before; they have long, potent sweeper tentacles and can be very aggressive. A toadstool leather in my first SW setup lost a patch of polyps and retracted for over a month after being nettled by a frogspawn, which also stung me several times when I was working in the tank. Beautiful corals, but they can be nasty to conspecifics.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

Is it possible that the anemones were stung by the Euphyllias? I ask because I've had problems with that genus of corals before; they have long, potent sweeper tentacles and can be very aggressive. A toadstool leather in my first SW setup lost a patch of polyps and retracted for over a month after being nettled by a frogspawn, which also stung me several times when I was working in the tank. Beautiful corals, but they can be nasty to conspecifics.

The anemones were in different spots all over the tank and some never came close to the Euphyllias. The largest and smallest coloniesy was added after all of them were gone, and the other colony was added after 3/4 of them were dead. I had maybe 10 anemones over an 18 month period. I know, that was stupid, but it didn't occur to me to stop buying anemones until I rain out of the extra money to spend on them. They would all die after 3-4 months. One made it for a year but then a rock fell on it and it died too.

 

[Anemone]

Possible Causes (that I can think of):

- Ammonias/nitrates/nitrites (possibly)
- Temperature swings in the summer

Yes, both of those could contribute.

What could be some other causes? I would say that my parameters like pH and salinity are stable since there's a regularly spawning pair of clownfish in the tank. I fed all of my anemones once per week or so with Premysis, brine shrimp, or Rod's food so I don't think feeding was an issue.

First, clowns are pretty resilient, so spawning really says nothing about your pH and salinity - stability is the key here and you may or may not have that right now, but having the correct levels is also important (clowns can survive and spawn at much lower salinities than their host anemones).

Also, feeding once a week is fine, but a more "meaty" food would be more appropriate. The foods you listed aren't really very "chunky." Also, a 110 over a 37, although more then NO fluorescents, really isn't very much.

Finally, do you have a skimmer? If you're feeding too much, a skimmer can really help take out some of the nutrients before they add to the pollution load in the tank.

Kevin

 

[velvetelvis]

Also, feeding once a week is fine, but a more "meaty" food would be more appropriate. The foods you listed aren't really very "chunky." Kevin

Not to hijack the thread, but what would be an appropriate "meaty" food? I've been feeding mine tiny bits of thawed krill, scallop, squid, or shrimp once or twice a week.

 

[adambirk]

i think a big part of this is your lighting. i have not had much luck with keeping bta under pc lighting. there really isnt much par coming out of those.

also why do you say testing for nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia isnt acurate? with some of the higher end kits(salifert) you should have no problem testing these. and it is very important to test for these when keeping any sensitive invert.

and lastly is stability. a temp swing of 4 degrees could be a stresser but alone i doubt it would kill or even harm your nems. but add that to underlighting them with the pc's and possible nitrite, nitrate, ammonia and this would be the demise of any nem.

it really is hard to say for sure what the cause was because of the simple fact that you did not test. this is one of the most imortant things in this hobby. because you simply have no way of telling what is going on with your system when something goes wrong and no way of trying to fix the problem.

so i would recomend testing on a regular basis for a while(once a week) unless you see something wrong. to kind of get an idea of what your tank is doing. then if everything seems stable i would try another. but i deffinently would seriously look at un upgrade on the lights asap.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

First, clowns are pretty resilient, so spawning really says nothing about your pH and salinity - stability is the key here and you may or may not have that right now, but having the correct levels is also important (clowns can survive and spawn at much lower salinities than their host anemones).

Should I be checking all of my parameters every day? If so I will. I'll go buy some new test kits, and high end test kits for ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite.

Also, feeding once a week is fine, but a more "meaty" food would be more appropriate. The foods you listed aren't really very "chunky." Also, a 110 over a 37, although more then NO fluorescents, really isn't very much.

What would be an appropriate food for anemones? The new tank that I'm wanting will be either the 28 Gallon NanoCube LED or the 29 Gallon BioCube HQI so I wouldn't have to worry about inadequate lighting since that is the only tank I would want to try an anemone in.

Finally, do you have a skimmer? If you're feeding too much, a skimmer can really help take out some of the nutrients before they add to the pollution load in the tank.

I have the stock skimmer for the RSM... it kinda sucks but it's better than nothing. It hasn't been skimming much in the past year. Do I have to change the skimmer pump?

Not to hijack the thread, but what would be an appropriate "meaty" food? I've been feeding mine tiny bits of thawed krill, scallop, squid, or shrimp once or twice a week.
I'd like to know the answer too, so you aren't hijacking.

i think a big part of this is your lighting. i have not had much luck with keeping bta under pc lighting. there really isnt much par coming out of those.

The new tank that I'm wanting a nem for will have either a 150w MH or a 96w high powered LED.


also why do you say testing for nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia isnt acurate? with some of the higher end kits(salifert) you should have no problem testing these. and it is very important to test for these when keeping any sensitive invert. I'll go replace my test kits after Christmas and I'll get high-techy one for ammonia, nitrate, and nitrite.

so i would recomend testing on a regular basis for a while(once a week) unless you see something wrong. to kind of get an idea of what your tank is doing. then if everything seems stable i would try another. but i deffinently would seriously look at un upgrade on the lights asap.

I'm actually thinking of testing every few days on pH and every week on ammonia, nitrate, nitrite, and phosphate. But if one of them is jank, how should I deal with it it other than a water change and cutting down feedings? I already run carbon and phosphate remover and I take it out and add more monthly.

^^ Answers in red.

 

[Anemone]

Personally, I'd test for everything (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, salinity (or specific gravity)) once a week.

A single krill (sold in frozen packs) once or twice a week should be more than enough food for a BTA, if you have sufficient lighting.

Your skimmer should be be producing foam if you have anything in the tank and/or you are feeding. If it isn't, then you need a better skimmer!

Water changes are important, but you need to ensure your replacement/makeup water is good. What are you using for water changes?

Kevin

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

Personally, I'd test for everything (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH, salinity (or specific gravity)) once a week.

I've heard Nano tanks are harder to keep stable. Should I test maybe once every 3-5 days?

A single krill (sold in frozen packs) once or twice a week should be more than enough food for a BTA, if you have sufficient lighting.

I have krill and my clownfish hate it, so I guess if I get another anemone I'll feed it krill.

Your skimmer should be be producing foam if you have anything in the tank and/or you are feeding. If it isn't, then you need a better skimmer!

It is constantly producing foam, but it used to produce more. It used to produce about 1" of junk water in the collection cup every month or two, but I just changed it for the first time in over 4-6 months and it onyl had 1" of junk water, so either the skimmer pump is wearing out or there is less crap to skim out of my tank.

Water changes are important, but you need to ensure your replacement/makeup water is good. What are you using for water changes?

I get reverse osmosis from my LFS or from my grocery store and I use Seachem ReefSalt to mix my water to around 1.026 salinity. Recently after all of the anemones were gone, I started to run a small pump in the mixing bucket and I heat the water to 78F before I add it to my tank. I don't check the pH of the water I mix though. Should I?

^^ As always, answers in red.

 

[Anemone]

Where are you located? Cali or Canada (I get the internet URLs mixed up).

Kevin

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

Where are you located? Cali or Canada (I get the internet URLs mixed up).

Kevin

Cali.

 

[Anemone]

If you're in SoCal, I'll give you a RBTA. I have about 30 or so right now. My clones don't die. Ever.

Kevin

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

If you're in SoCal, I'll give you a RBTA. I have about 30 or so right now. My clones don't die. Ever.

Kevin

Thanks for the offer but I'm in NorCal. :sad2:
Plus I'm wanting a sand-dweller (probably an LTA that I would swap out when it gets too big) so that it stays away from the corals I'll have in the tank.

 

[Nebthet]

Yes, nano tanks are harder to keep because water quality in them is harder to stabilize. This is why testing is extremely important in them. Testing at least once per week is the best way to learn your tank. Also watch how your corals are reacting if you see something out of wack. This will help you when you have a test kit giving a false reading, or if you have a nutrient problem the tests are not picking up.
Also ensure you are doing a 10-15% water change every week, or split that in half and do it twice a week.

Since your clownfish do no like Krill, that would be the perfect food for your anemone as your clowns won't steal it from them.

When is the last time you cleaned out your skimmer and the skimmer pump?
This is one of the leading causes to a skimmer not working properly. They should be cleaned about every four to six months.



Don't worry too much about the ph of the new water..definitely ensure it is fully mixed and up to temp before you add it. RO is better than tap by far. Get yourself a refractometer it will help with the salinity to ensure it is accurate because the plastic ones easily get out of wack and you might not realize it.

I see here you are planning the upgrading to a different tank.. when you get the new lights, whether T5 or MH, you will need to acclimate the anemone to that light. Also ensure the tank parameters are stabilized before you move any livestock over.

 

[velvetelvis]

Thanks for the offer but I'm in NorCal. :sad2:
Plus I'm wanting a sand-dweller (probably an LTA that I would swap out when it gets too big) so that it stays away from the corals I'll have in the tank.

Problem is, most sand-dwelling anemones, except possibly for LTAs, get too big for a nano. And even an LTA, for example, can get to be quite large and will need all of the floor space in your tank, so that doesn't leave you room for any LR to place corals on. Swapping out anemones isn't a great idea, IMO--it stresses the nems, and you'll probably end up having to swap them out pretty regularly in a tank that size, so you could end up having to find, acclimate, remove, rehome, find, acclimate, etc., over and over again. This is hard on the anemones, not to mention the system in general. The best thing for any tank is to place the livestock in, let it settle, and then leave everything alone as much as possible, aside from tank maintenance and water changes.

Once you get your tank cycled and stable and you've got the proper lighting (I also lost a BTA that I tried to keep under PC lighting, but my current BTA has been doing well so far under 150W/14K MH lighting), a healthy BTA with the proper rockwork and current should find a spot it likes and stay put, thus presenting fewer problems for any corals you want to keep. I have a 34 Solana with a BTA in the rock and a large colony of M. digitata on the substrate, about 6"-8" away...they never come into contact with each other, and both seem to be doing fine.

Depending on which tank you get (I really like the Solana, as it has an open top--good for heat dissipation and gas exchange), you can get a different skimmer for your setup. Stock skimmers generally suck, to put it bluntly. I run a Tunze 9200 on my tank. Pricey, and I had to order a specially made collection cup to fit it in my sump, but it does a great job. I highly recommend it.

I hope you don't give up on BTAs. I'm a cheerleader for aquaculture in general, so I favor them for the fact that they're so widely available as captive-produced clones, but they're also just beautiful and hardy, if you put a healthy one in the right environment. Get your tank set up, cycled, and settled in, and maybe you can take Anemone up on his (her?) offer sometime next year...with the proper conditions and regular testing, I bet your next experience with anemones is going to be much better.

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

Yes, nano tanks are harder to keep because water quality in them is harder to stabilize. This is why testing is extremely important in them. Testing at least once per week is the best way to learn your tank. Also watch how your corals are reacting if you see something out of wack. This will help you when you have a test kit giving a false reading, or if you have a nutrient problem the tests are not picking up.
Also ensure you are doing a 10-15% water change every week, or split that in half and do it twice a week.

I do 20% water changes every week or two.

Since your clownfish do no like Krill, that would be the perfect food for your anemone as your clowns won't steal it from them.

When is the last time you cleaned out your skimmer and the skimmer pump?
This is one of the leading causes to a skimmer not working properly. They should be cleaned about every four to six months.

Heheh... I don't clean my skimmer pump. :worried:

Don't worry too much about the ph of the new water..definitely ensure it is fully mixed and up to temp before you add it. RO is better than tap by far. Get yourself a refractometer it will help with the salinity to ensure it is accurate because the plastic ones easily get out of wack and you might not realize it.

Where can I buy a refractometer?

I see here you are planning the upgrading to a different tank.. when you get the new lights, whether T5 or MH, you will need to acclimate the anemone to that light. Also ensure the tank parameters are stabilized before you move any livestock over.

I woke up this morning and "Santa" brought me the 29g BioCube HQI! :dance:

Problem is, most sand-dwelling anemones, except possibly for LTAs, get too big for a nano. And even an LTA, for example, can get to be quite large and will need all of the floor space in your tank, so that doesn't leave you room for any LR to place corals on. Swapping out anemones isn't a great idea, IMO--it stresses the nems, and you'll probably end up having to swap them out pretty regularly in a tank that size, so you could end up having to find, acclimate, remove, rehome, find, acclimate, etc., over and over again. This is hard on the anemones, not to mention the system in general. The best thing for any tank is to place the livestock in, let it settle, and then leave everything alone as much as possible, aside from tank maintenance and water changes.

I really don't want another BTA. I want to cover my rocks in corals which is why I want a sand-dweller. Are there any other sand-dwellers that won't get huge?

Once you get your tank cycled and stable and you've got the proper lighting (I also lost a BTA that I tried to keep under PC lighting, but my current BTA has been doing well so far under 150W/14K MH lighting), a healthy BTA with the proper rockwork and current should find a spot it likes and stay put, thus presenting fewer problems for any corals you want to keep. I have a 34 Solana with a BTA in the rock and a large colony of M. digitata on the substrate, about 6"-8" away...they never come into contact with each other, and both seem to be doing fine.

Depending on which tank you get (I really like the Solana, as it has an open top--good for heat dissipation and gas exchange), you can get a different skimmer for your setup. Stock skimmers generally suck, to put it bluntly. I run a Tunze 9200 on my tank. Pricey, and I had to order a specially made collection cup to fit it in my sump, but it does a great job. I highly recommend it.

If I decide to move my clownfish in my 14 gallon to the new tank I would have enough extra money to get a decent skimmer. I heard the Tunze 9002 was good because it fits in small AIO nano tanks.


I hope you don't give up on BTAs. I'm a cheerleader for aquaculture in general, so I favor them for the fact that they're so widely available as captive-produced clones, but they're also just beautiful and hardy, if you put a healthy one in the right environment. Get your tank set up, cycled, and settled in, and maybe you can take Anemone up on his (her?) offer sometime next year...with the proper conditions and regular testing, I bet your next experience with anemones is going to be much better.

I'll consider a BTA since that's probably my only anemone choice I have in a nano tank, but depending on what corals I decide to keep in the tank I may or may not get a BTA. Are there any other anemones that would work for a nano that would actually host clownfish?

 

[WaffleWalffle22]

To my surprise, I got the new tank (29g BC HQI) this morning for Christmas. I'll set it up tomorrow and add fish when my cycle is done. If I decide to get an anemone, how long should I wait before I get it?

 

[SkullV]

To my surprise, I got the new tank (29g BC HQI) this morning for Christmas. I'll set it up tomorrow and add fish when my cycle is done. If I decide to get an anemone, how long should I wait before I get it?

The general rule of thumb is 6months, but if you are moving everything over from another mature tank just wait til the mini cycle (if you get one) is done and you have an understanding of the new tanks stability.