Why do we assume a large return pump is needed?

Please don't shoot me for this post, but I need to know:

I am setting up a 180 AGA with two overflows. I have built my sump/fuge and have the G-3 skimmer in the sump.

Plumbing question is: Has anyone ever thought of setting up a closed loop together with the same return pump (pump serves as the return pump and the closed loop pump)? Let me explain,
I would put a T right after the bulkhead going from my sump/fuge to my barracuda (4500 gph). The T would be taking in water from the sump/fuge and the closed loop. After the water passes through the pump, i would T back to the closed loop.

I hope this question has not messed up the thread.

A. Iber
 
One of the purposes of a CL is to slow the amount of water going through your sump to reduce the chance of having micro bubbles making it back into your tank IMO. Thats why I would not use the same pump for both.
 
Thank you for your reply....The the CL water will not make it back to my sump. It would "overflow" to the pvc in between the sump and the pump.

I wish I could draw it up for you...
 
You cannot use the same pump for a closed loop and a return - it will not be a "closed" loop anymore, no matter how you plumb it.
 
This is a really interesting thread. Makes me want to rethink my setup (yet again).

My setup is an AGA 90 with a DIY 30G sump/fuge, Mag9.5 return, dual Amiracle hang on overflows, a couple of MJ 1200s. I have a Remora Pro in the sump driven by a Mag5.

I would like to stay with the dual overflows since I think it helps to provide better surface skimming (does it?). It also works well for the way my sump fuge is setup plumbing wise. The drain pluming is setup so the left side has a ball valve with diverts the water between the fuge section and the skimmer section. The right side all goes to the skimmer section. I'd say ~ 25% goes to fuge, 75% to the skimmer.

With the dual Amiracle HOB overflows, I have another complexity. I cant have the flow too low. This would cause bubble accumulation in the U Tubes. I need to keep U Tube velocity sufficient to keep them clear. Using the typical Mag pump, I'm not sure a Mag5 would be enough. I would say I need at least 200 GPH per overflow. Would going to a Mag7 instead of the 9.5 be worth the effort? I would have to re plumb the return with smaller plumbing. You can chane a mag 5 into a 7 with an impeller swap. I guess I could try the 5 and change it to a 7 if needed.
 
How many watts difference between the mag7 and 9.5? I'd say stick with the 9.5 if you're running dual HOB overflows...
 
Its not really for heat reduction. The idea of moving the water more slowly through the sump to get better skimmer performance is what interests me along with less noise, bubbles, etc.
 
In this thread, the OP is saying like 100 - 200 GPH for a tank that size or larger. With dual U Tube overflows, I'd have to be ~ 400 GPH to keep them working properly.
 
I think as long as you keep the flow through the skimmer close to or more than the sump return, you are doing better than if it were the other way around.
 
sjm817,
I used the amiracle on a 125g with nothing but an eheim 1250 for return (prolly just under 200gph actual flow). It kept the surface clear and didnt build up air. You could eliminate one of your overflows, and go all the way down to 200gph and be fine.

Well everyone, I will be gone until Thursday as I have a trip to St. Louis today. Hope this thread keeps goin strong until I get back!
 
I have re-plumbed this setup so many times, I dont think I would do it again unless I really needed to. Maybe a smaller pump and just redo the return and leave the dual overflows and dual drains as is.
 
Re: Why do we assume a large return pump is needed?

Herbert T. Kornfeld said:
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-03/totm/index.htm

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-12/totm/index.htm
Click to expand...

hi - can you specifically point to the example in the totm that uses a 100gph overflow? I'm confused on that. Daniel Gan's (first link cited) uses: "Another Eheim, a 1262 (3,400 L/hr), serves purely as a return pump. " - my metric knowledge is deplorable but that's not 100gph. Are you citing the 2004 totm as the 100 gph example?
 
well someone help me design my tank then---- I just bought a amiracle pro 300 (got it for a good price on auction) for a 125g project tank. I'm still waiting for it to be delivered and have never seen a wet dry filter up close before for that matter---- its rated at 1200gph, so what kind/size return pump should I pick up?
 
I am setting up a 215 gallon reef ready. I am going to have a tunze 6100 on each end set up with the 7095 controller for wave, etc. The tank is set up for duel overflows and returns. I was going to run the returns as spraybars behind the rocks to prevent dead spots and the tunze's will be the main water movement. I am going to use the ASM G-4 skimmer in the Oceanic 3 sump. The skimmer has a Sedra 5000 pump which I believe pumps 500 gph through the skimmer. I was thinking about a Magdrive 7 or 9.5 for the return pump. It is higher than the sedra but after compensating for the heighth and pressure of the returns and spraybars it will bring it down alot. Which one do you think sounds best? (700gph or 950gph before compensation)?
 
One thing about Mags...They want you to run pluming 2x the outlet size for max flow. For a Mag 7, thats 1", Mag 9.5, 1.5" if that matters to you.
 
sjm817 said:
One thing about Mags...They want you to run pluming 2x the outlet size for max flow. For a Mag 7, thats 1", Mag 9.5, 1.5" if that matters to you.
Click to expand...

I didn't know that about MAGS!!! WHere did you get that info? I have a Mag 12 running on my 75 with 1" tubing and I always thought that flow seemed low.

Thanks

Albert
 
Its right on the installation instructions. I called them and confirmed it. I went from 3/4" to 1.5" on my 9.5 and saw a big difference.
 
aiber said:
I didn't know that about MAGS!!! WHere did you get that info? I have a Mag 12 running on my 75 with 1" tubing and I always thought that flow seemed low.

Thanks

Albert
Click to expand...

hi there,

well that goes for any pump, the smaller the diameter the more restriction created, but you should take into the benefit over a larger diameter VS price + bigger pipe

Total losses are 5.43 feet of head pressure, or 2.35 PSI. with a flow rate of 998 GPH. with 1" pipe and 4 feet lift

Total losses are 4.26 feet of head pressure, or 1.84 PSI. with a flow rate of 1072 GPH. Process took 154 iterations. with 1.5" and 4 feet lift

in my setup, I was fine with just a 74gph lost , the cost and trouble didn't seem worth it ;) , the head loss calculator is a valuable tool, use it :D

and about the low flow, come on people what you think about the heaters and other equipment, do you guys think it might be affectect, thx

sam
 
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