Why do we assume a large return pump is needed?

[mikester]

and about the low flow, come on people what you think about the heaters and other equipment, do you guys think it might be affectect, thx

sam

That's a good point, and something I had considered as well. That's why I wouldn't be comfortable going down to 100-200 gph as was originally suggested, but going from 1500 gph to 600 gph seems to have made a positive impact on my tank and hasn't affected any of the other equipment. My chiller runs a lot less now because of less heat from the pump, and when it does run it seems to be just as efficient as before.

Another thing I've noticed is a difference in my zeovit reactor's effectiveness, especially when I pump the stones. When I had the higher flow, I never saw any effect in the tank from pumping the stones. Now I see a cloud of mulm come out of the return and the whole tank gets cloudy for a couple of minutes - which is exactly what you want (that mulm is feeding the corals).

 

[aiber]

hi there,

well that goes for any pump, the smaller the diameter the more restriction created, but you should take into the benefit over a larger diameter VS price + bigger pipe

Total losses are 5.43 feet of head pressure, or 2.35 PSI. with a flow rate of 998 GPH. with 1" pipe and 4 feet lift

Total losses are 4.26 feet of head pressure, or 1.84 PSI. with a flow rate of 1072 GPH. Process took 154 iterations. with 1.5" and 4 feet lift

in my setup, I was fine with just a 74gph lost , the cost and trouble didn't seem worth it , the head loss calculator is a valuable tool, use it

and about the low flow, come on people what you think about the heaters and other equipment, do you guys think it might be affectect, thx

sam

Sam,

Thanks for the info. Let me ask you this: I am buying a sequence barracuda. should I use 2" pipe for inlet and outlet or 1.5"...Let me know

 

[sjm817]

hi there,

well that goes for any pump, the smaller the diameter the more restriction created, but you should take into the benefit over a larger diameter VS price + bigger pipe

Total losses are 5.43 feet of head pressure, or 2.35 PSI. with a flow rate of 998 GPH. with 1" pipe and 4 feet lift

Total losses are 4.26 feet of head pressure, or 1.84 PSI. with a flow rate of 1072 GPH. Process took 154 iterations. with 1.5" and 4 feet lift

in my setup, I was fine with just a 74gph lost , the cost and trouble didn't seem worth it , the head loss calculator is a valuable tool, use it

and about the low flow, come on people what you think about the heaters and other equipment, do you guys think it might be affectect, thxsam

The Mag is a flow rated pump, not pressure rated. AFAIK, a pressure pump doesn't need the large tubing. I think Eheim doesn't. It is confusing since I agree, it should affect all the same. Setting it up with the 1.5" was kind of a PITA. I have it coming out of the pump 1.5", it gets "Y'd" twice reduced to (4) 3/4" pipes, then hits the tank with (4) LocLine nozzles. Pretty involved return plumbing setup.

 

[NOLACLS]

It will still make a difference with a pressure pump. At least it does on the head loss clac for a BL 100HD. It has a 1" in and out but if I made the out a 1.5" it got 200 more gph in my situation.

 

[samsfishnchips]

Sam,

Thanks for the info. Let me ask you this: I am buying a sequence barracuda. should I use 2" pipe for inlet and outlet or 1.5"...Let me know

I think when you reach 1.5", there won't be that much different with most pumps, but don't forget the situaction also will play a role, if you are plumming from the basement by all means 2" would be better, becuase of distance, but for a few feet, the trouble + price, the gains are not much, had to think about your individual case, good luck,

sjm817, again like nolacls said, it doesn't matter, in my view all pumps are going to be affected, pressure rate should in theory be affected less though,

mikester, thx for the comment, a limited have to be calculated, to find that "perfect" balance

sam

 

[sjm817]

One thing that bugs me is Mag says 1.5" for Mag9.5/12/18. That doesn't seem right. Same size pipe for the 950 and 1800GPH pump??

 

[ErikS]

One thing that bugs me is Mag says 1.5" for Mag9.5/12/18

Part, if not all of that is because Mag tests the pumps with a 1.5" outlet which translates to mean that you'll never achieve the rated flow of the pump even @ 0' (they don't ship them w/ 1.5" outputs do they).

Personally I'm a fan of the "low flow" approach. Big pump for CL & smallish pump for a return. In my case that's a GenX-Mak4.......but.......that runs everything, skimmer feed, chiller (which bites 65% of the flow).

 

[mikester]

Sam,

Thanks for the info. Let me ask you this: I am buying a sequence barracuda. should I use 2" pipe for inlet and outlet or 1.5"...Let me know

On pumps like that, I think it's probably best to use a 2" intake and 1.5" outlet. I have a Sequence 1000 series with 1.5" on both sides, and it always runs a little hot. I bet if I stepped up to 2" on the intake it would be easier on the pump, but I can't do that easily. If you are doing a new setup with a big pump, drill for a 2" (or a pair of 1.5") intake and you'll be set.

 

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

phil519,
DNA's 300+ gallon has a 100gph overflow.

 

[phil519]

LOL - thanks i have no idea how I missed that big blue box!

 

[AlienSpawn]

How about a 950 gallon magdrive on a 5' rise with 1" return lines to spray bars. Alot of knockdown on flow, thinking all said and done may be no more than 500-600gph. This will be feeding into a sump with a skimmer being fed by a Sedra 5000(500gph)???

 

[Stasher]

I finally dropped my sump return down. I went from a Mag18 which was nuts.....then tried a Mag9.5 but now have finally found the perfect pump. I installed a Hagen 901 pump and now my overflow and sump flow is awesome. This pump returns about 400gph back to the display tank which is perfect. I am much happier with the tank now, 3-5x tank flow through the sump is the perfect amount. I now have absolutely no trace of microbubbles from my return and was able to setup my mag9.5 on a closed loop.

 

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

that 901 isnt a pressure rated pump and will prolly end up burning out pretty fast in that situation. I would swap it out for a Mag5...should give you the same results. I use a 901 for a closed loop pump...works great!

 

[johnnstacy]

I just recently ran a barracuda from my basement and kept with the original 1.5". Once I got to the top of the tank, it tees off to two 1" seaswirls. One thing to note though is on the barracuda, gph are significantly reduced pumping from a basement. I went from an original rating of over 4000 gph to about 2100 gph because of my 12' incline to get the the floor above. I will also be running streams though.

 

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

yeah, those dart, cuda and like pumps arent real good with pressure. Awesome for just raw flow however...

 

[Member No. 1]

CL suction side

CL suction side

Ok, I plan on going down this path, so what are people using on the suction side of the CL? This is an over the top set-up, not drilled. Where are you pulling from? Bottom, mid, upper tank levels, and what about strainers/critter guards? I was thinking of a suction tube the full height of the tank with holes drilled in it.
Any other ideas? Pics would be great!
TIA

 

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Well, Im rather opinionated about closed loops..so take it with a grain...

The intakes should be as close to the surface as possible w/o every being exposed to air in case the sump turns off (and the tank's water level drops). This is for easy cleaning, as well as keeping the CL pump clean. Simply, more dirt gets tossed around near the bottom...and unless you plan to use an inline sediment filter with your closed loop, it will just gunk up your pump. The other main reason has to do with keeping the intake clean. Close to the top means it is way easier to notice and reach in and clean. Down far, behind rocks and corals, maybe even out of possible view, means that the intake wont get cleaned as much, and might even get looked over...causing problems. And on a side note, a closed loop should either have a very long intake strainer (rather hard to hide so most prefer the little black ones mentioned next), or if you are using the standard rainbow plastics type...two or more intakes. This allows critters more flexibility when getting close to the intakes. Otherwise, a snail on your intake would not only get sucked in, but as its being sucked in, the water suction would increase that much more...killing it. I like at least 2 intakes...so if a snail clogs one, the water pressure wont increase as much and simply come from the other intake.

And I know the question always comes up...why not run the CL off the overflow? Well, you can...ONLY if you have a very large overflow box....and usually isnt worth it then. See, if the sump pump is turned off, you need enough water in the overflow box to maintain the closed loop. That means you need a standpipe and the sump overflow to be above the closed loop intake...otherwise the CL would run dry. Not only that, but the height between the two intakes (CL below, Overflow above) must be enough to maintain a water volume large enough to maintain the CL if the CL pump were to turn off and then on again while the sump was off (think about it while the sump is off, turn off CL if it feeds from the overflow that means that the level in the overflow will rise...going down the overflow drain to the sump...CL comes back on and doesnt have enough water to run). And then what about evaporation? The overflow box needs to function as your new sump pretty much...too much hassle for most to bother running the CL through the overflow.

 

[Member No. 1]

Thanks, I wasn't planning on running from the overflow. I can see some big problems as you have stated. I will use duel pick-ups, I like that idea.
Thanks for the info.

 

[Member No. 1]

Low flow and skimmers

Low flow and skimmers

Just another thought, with this low flow and all the talk about skimming the best way to be sure you skim all the water that is going thru your sump, what about ( has any one tried this?) hooking your overflow directly to the skimmer? Pros/Cons? I mean with the low flow and no refuse in the sump, the only reason you have water in a sump is to maintain a level in the main tank, a place for additives/make up water, heaters, and somewhere to draw water for a cooler or UV. A closed loop would run a cooler/UV.
But anyway, if you do hook up your skimmer directly to the skimmer, them 100% on the overfolw would go thru the skimmer.
Just thinking out loud.

 

[Herbert T. Kornfeld]

Great idea if your skimmer can do it....many can not. DNA's Tank of the Month (300+ gallon w/ 100gph overflow and deltec skimmer on direct feed from overflow) allows for this...because it is a recirculating skimmer...so...that would be what you need.