Why do we assume a large return pump is needed?

Herbert:

This is largely a misconception. If you look at the ampacity for the wire we are dealing with you will find that there really is no difference for most household loads over the wire size and distances that are typical for the subject at hand. Power factor and the type of load play a large role. Resistive loads and motors behave differently. The effects of increased voltage become beneficial when a given wire size is pushed to the point where it gives off heat and a load such as a motor must draw more current to run. A resistive load however will just run at the lower voltage (due ot the sag in the line) AND NOT draw more current. These loses are so small that the typical reef tank (or household) will not benefit from the change to 220v branch circuits. Our household loads are constant and do not become bogged down, therefore power factor changes and rcurrent surge are not issues the need to be addressed by "larger pipes with less resistance".

In other words the differences between 110/220 could be measured over a long period of time but would likely not be worth the trouble of converting to. The outcome is different when you look at motors that have tremendous startup current requirements or become severely bogged down. A machine shop is a good example. However, 3-phase is even more of a savings than balanced 220v and is more commonly used in large current applications.

This subject has been debated over and over. I have merely outlined the basic conclusions and will avoid the detailed technical conversation and numbers. A search even here at RC will provide support from a techniocal standpoint for those so inclined. Suffice to say, that switching your reef to 220v is a wasted expense in all but the most extreme cases.

Bean
 
Bean work was done at I B M labs at Endicott NY and some homes were built using larger wire size and the ele bills did come down.
 
I have read some of the studies and also the math behind them. As usual there are more factors than just "wire size" when sighting such results. It should also be noted that the COPPER council has promoted many of these studies to sell more copper by recomending that we step up one conductor size above the NEC requirment. Kinda like EXXON telling you to use premium for better mileage.

Again, the results will be more pronounced if a majority of the branch circuits are being operated at near capacity. In todays homes, the NEC requires nearly 20 circuits for the typical home. A typical 100 amp service would provide 5 amps per branch on #14 or #12 wire. The AC unit and electric stove, heat and other high current devices are already 220v with typically well oversized conductors related to their real world loads. I surely recomend using #12 everywhere instead of #14. You MAY realize a slight power savings, but your branch circuits will be safer and ready for heavier than expect future uses.

I have just rewired my entire house from #14 BX to #12 Romex and upgraded from a 100A to a 200A service. I have gone from 8 breakers to over 40. No power savings here. Even at an unrealistic goal of 20% power savings, it would take me years to recoup the materials cost ($2,000+). If this job was done by a contractor, the cost would likely never be recouped in power savings.

Back to the basics
The power loss is 1/4 for each doubling of the voltage over the same wire size. However, when your power loss is LOW to begin with, these numbers don't add up very fast at all. It should also be noted that a slightly better motor or PF correction will save you a LOT more than upping voltage and/or wire size.

This is of course very general and it is obvious that some situations benefit from larger wire and/or higher voltages. I would still submit that trying to run your reef at 220v is a waste of time in most cases. If current draw is a huge concerns then multiple branch circuits and/or a subpanel close to the reef would be your best bet.
 
Bean you have said larger wire size is not needed ,but that is not how you wired your home.
Use the sun for power the rates are always the same.
 
OK...I need to chime in here!

HTK: Regarding my light source, I will be using 3-1000W MH 20K lamps. My tank will double as a tanning bed. BTW, I have seen tanks with significantly more light. I have seen the open frag tanks at LFS with 2 1000W MH + others 400W lamps. I will try to aquascape in a manner that provides high and low light areas for a variety of inhabitants.

Bean: You say wire size doesnt matter and then discuss rewiring your house with larger line? I don't get it. Also, you say that, "Our household loads are constant and do not become bogged down" which leads me to believe you have never been in anyone else's home. In fact, with 100Amp service at your own house, how can you say loads are constant? Are you telling me that when your heater is going and the lights are on at night, you can turn on the vacuum cleaner and the lights don't dim at all?

You would drool over my house let me tell you. I have 400amp service and electrical panels that would make you dizzy. My neighbor has 100amp service and has problems running too many things. I installed a tankless water heater (a dream come true) and it needed 2-#2's and a #6 ground going to a 125amp breaker. Guess what...saves me a crapload of money, or conversly my kid can take a 1 hour scalding shower without hitting the electric bill too hard.

Ok..so I am rambling...when those halides kick on, there will be zero affect on the rest of the house. Why? Lots of capacity.
 
I did not ever say it was not needed. I said that in most situations it will not make much of a difference. I also stated that the under many circumstances the savings of the extra copper would not be quickly recouped, and that there were better ways to get a return on an investment (better LOAD equipment that is more efficient and/or has a better power factor).

I used the larger wire in my house becuase the house needed rewired. My decision had nothing to do with efficiency or savings in the form of a return on the extra investment. I simply could not see limiting any branch circuit to 15A and also like the extra safety factor when using the larger gauge wire. I did the project myself and saved a LOT of money.

Again, I would recomend anybody running new circuits to use #12 wire. It gives you room to expand or add to the circuit if need be.

Bean
 
Bean is right. Going to 220v and larger wire may help slightly with a large chiller, but it's not going to do much for your lighting costs. It will certainly give you the ability to run more equipment on the same line, if that's what you're after.
 
BTW you find me a solar array and storage array that shows a REAL savings and I will be the first on board to buy it. Solar power is great but it is just to expensive to use and maintain. We have a big cell manufacturing facility here near pittsburgh.
 
Solar supplimentation or your entire system is solar? What do you use for storage?

Mind you... I am not willing to change my lifestyle to go solar :)
 
From personal experience, a friend of mine has a place where he runs alot of equipment off of only a few circuits. His wires most likely do warm up through the day, making more resistance in the wire...and the cooler and larger you can make your wiring, the less power has to go into the wire to make the same amount at the other end. Anyways, his electric bill for his multiple grow out vats and tank, etc, is something like $480 a month ($600 total, but he only used to spend about $120 before the reef hobby). Yet, when I add up the wattages (the actual ones from testing, so a 250watt halide is really 350watts), his bill should only be $200. The only thing we can come up with is that he is overloading some circuits.

I have a couple of my tanks running completely off of one circuit. My bills from those two tanks are about double what they should be...checked with a meter and all...but upon checking the meter downstairs vs. what the plug-in meter says, Im using lots of juice...prolly warming some wires in the process.

Im not saying that the fact that its 220v is the reason my bills would go down...just the fact that it would be on its own circuit...something that 1000+watts of anything should get its own circuit for anyways.

Also, I would consider the draw from a halide ballast to be very dynamic. Not as much as a chiller or something that shuts on/off all day, but the load does vary throughout the day...not just that huge spike at startup.
 
Herbert: It is hard to tell what is causing the "problem" but you do need to understand that your DVM and your power meter read two different thinks. Your DVM reads pure watts from a resistive standpoint. Your power meter works on a different principle. A good read on reactive power and power factor would shed a lot of light on why you may be paying more than your label and meter says you should. Yes a 1000 watt device should be on it's own circuit. A 20 AMP circuit can handle about 1800 watts at 80% load (the max load to be used per NEC). That said I would run the 1kW light on it's own circuit for many reasons. You should also try and balance the loads on each leg of your mains service.

Bean
 
I guess that's about what I need to do. I am figuring 3 - 20amp circuits into the fish room, each with a DC4 Heavy Duty. Each one will have a 1000W MH and 1 or 2 low amp items. I am wondering if I should run a 4rth line.--J
 
I would run a 4th line. You don't want a lamp to trip a circuit and cause a system failure.

You may want to just toss a small sub-panel in the fishroom. This will be about as cheap as running 4 seperate circuits. If you put in a 75-100amp panel with 10-12 spaces, you will have plenty of room to do anything you need to in the future.

Bean
 
ANd sorry for the mispost I used the wrong word in my haste... your DVM reads amps. There is no direct conversion to watts.

Bean
 
Good point but I didn't want any breakers in the moisture. I guess I could use a wterproof box though, and in fact it really may be easier to run the large line to a sub panel. I'll have to think about that one.
 
You can get nema rated panels, but they do cost a bit more. Should not be an issue, unless the panel will be under your stand. My service is in my fishroom, as well as my phone system and network and ups equipment. The room is 12' X 5' (in wall tank).

Bean
 
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