I don't mean to sound ignorant about my lack of understanding but I just got through reading the thread about dosing. I have since odered some TM A&K trace elements. I have dosed my aquarium with additional elements from time to time but I really thought that is what the water changes were for. Would someone give me some insight?
Why do we dose and we do water changes?
- Thread starter mmotown
- Start date
most salts are not complete, even the really good ones lack a small percent of the elements that are still required for good growth and color. imagine this, if you do a water change once a week like a model reefer, and you use a salt with 90% (which would be a really good salt, im not sure of brand names ingredients and dot want to get corrected if i use the wrong name brand salt) of the trace elements (not to mention things like calcium that get used up extremely quickly in a reef system) needed, your tank will slowly starve of that other 10% that the salt was not providing, and there is no way to be really sure of the quantities and quality of the 90% that the salt does have! sure, you could test for all of the test elements, but thats such a pain in the butt (and test kits ain't cheap!) that your probably better off just dosing a few trace elements.
Hef
Premium Member
If you did a 100% water change weekly you would not have to dose anything. But only changing out 15% of the water, the other 85% will be losing CA, Alk, and many others. If you dont have a hungry tank for these elements then you could get away with it.
My tank has a large demand for Ca & alk.
My tank has a large demand for Ca & alk.
If your tank inhabitants use up trace elements very slowly (e.g. less than 10% per week), just weekly water change will be sufficient to top up lost trace elements in your tank.
However, many corals and inverts used up certain type of trace elements at a very fast rate (e.g. clams on calcium). So, a weekly replenishment of 10-15% of water will not replace the trace elements used up quick enough. We don't do 50-70% water change per week because it's just too expensive. Therefore we dose.
However, many corals and inverts used up certain type of trace elements at a very fast rate (e.g. clams on calcium). So, a weekly replenishment of 10-15% of water will not replace the trace elements used up quick enough. We don't do 50-70% water change per week because it's just too expensive. Therefore we dose.
RichConley
New member
since when are Ca, Alk, and Mag trace elements? These shouldnt even be in this conversation.
twon8
Formally registered membe
agreed, and i can say that i don't dose anything but kalk, baking soda, prestone driveway heat, and occasionally mag flake, and i am convinced nothing else is needed. i change at most %15 per month with io, and my corals are blowing up. spend the money on flow, not supplements.
Lobster
Premium Member
That's a pretty strong generalization.
Salt mixes are far from perfect. They have a huge excess of some elements, and are largely deficient in others. We don't even know what role, if any, most elements play, much less all the ones that possibly function as trace elements. Just look at how misunderstood iodine and potassium are.
We do import other things when we feed our tanks. Water changes serve to export or dillute some of that, as well as nitrogenous compounds from fish and other critters.
seattlerob
New member
FWIW, I'm in the group that believes approx 10% weekly water changes (or more) is sufficient to replenish whatever trace elements are used up. I rely on my salt mix to provide whatever trace elements are needed. I am sure different brands of salt have different concentrations of trace elements, etc, but hopefully most, if not all, contain the required trace elements needed.
I am also in the group that believes if you cannot or do not test for it, don't dose it. For that reason, I only dose Ca, Alk, and kalkwasser.
hth,
rob
I am also in the group that believes if you cannot or do not test for it, don't dose it. For that reason, I only dose Ca, Alk, and kalkwasser.
hth,
rob
Serioussnaps
New member
IO is also very low in CA....and very high in ALK...i have to dose CA, and MG and let my ALK drop slowly over the week just so i can do a WC because IO will shoot your ALK through the roof if you do a large WC...thats why i am switching to HW
LobsterOfJustice
Recovering Detritophobe
Trace elements by definition are found in quantities less than 1 ppm. Calcium I believe would be considered a "major constituent" of seawater.
Amphiprion
Premium Member
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8443579#post8443579 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Lobster
That's a pretty strong generalization.
Salt mixes are far from perfect. They have a huge excess of some elements, and are largely deficient in others. We don't even know what role, if any, most elements play, much less all the ones that possibly function as trace elements. Just look at how misunderstood iodine and potassium are.
We do import other things when we feed our tanks. Water changes serve to export or dillute some of that, as well as nitrogenous compounds from fish and other critters.
Agreed. I am more in the school of though that water changes dilute more than they replenish (except for elements found in excess in the mix). I want no part in certain trace elements until they have been proven to have a beneficial (or needed) effect on the organisms we keep. Many of the things imported and created in our tanks cannot be removed in any other fashion, so water changes definitely have a beneficial effect there.
PrangeWay
Duke of Monte Fisto
This is actually a very very common misperception and tends to be wildly inaccurate over time. It may hold relatively true if your tank is a few months old, but as your tank gets older they drop constantly..
Ex:
You're Element X is 1 ppm. It is very slowly used and at your 15% waterchange at 2 weeks it's at 0.95 ppm. You change 20% with a new salt mix at 1 ppm and it is now at 0.96 ppm. At the end of the month it is at 0.91 ppm and you do another 20% water change so it's pushs up slightly to 0.93 ppm. So you've lost 0.07 ppm or 7% even with your water changes. Now even using up 1% you'll lose um .8% a month or almost 10% over a year.
Anything that is being "used" in your tank will deplete over time even with water changes, because it's only returning it to a set level, not making up what has been used. Now I don't advocate dosing everything, we don't know what 9/10ths of it does and if we need it, or how to measure it. But do realize that as your tank gets older it's deficent in ALOT of trace elements, and nothing outside of 100% wc will fix that... It's something to think about...
PW
