why I advocate what I do on this forum

[snorvich]

Are you sure it was velvet?

Also, if the fish has more than a light infection, a series of baths and transfers will be required. One single bath is just general precaution, actual treatment requires daily dips for a minimum of 5 days.

BTW: I wouldn't buy any fish from a system where one or more fish show signs of velvet, brook or uronema. The risks are just too great.

Actually, over time after reading your posts, I would say we agree 99% of the time. As i buy online rather than at LFS, I always assume the worst.

Also, the write ups of "solutions" we all read do not specify very well the circumstances in which they are effective and I always take them with a grain (or pinch) of salt.

 

[ThRoewer]

It's mind boggling, all fish that have gone in looked healthy and eating. No visible signs at all so there was no reason for multiple dips over time. I'm not an expert so I'm only speculating its velvet.

There is a multitude of fish diseases out there. If you look at Noga you will only find a handful of pages dealing with ich, velvet, brook, uronema, flukes and all the other ones we usually care about, though the book has hundreds of pages. Ich is covered on about a quarter of a page (not counting pictures).

So often well known parasites gets blamed by hobbyists while the real culprit might be someone entirely different...

This brings back a bad memory from 3 weeks ago... This isn't reassuring to hear you say you think you have velvet after all the steps you took to make sure the tank was disease free. Are you running the UV still? I know everyone seems to think the are useless against disease and a undersized/poorly built one I would agree with that. There are some interesting articles on UV-C sterilization and one thing I do know is that none of us would ever get a fish from QM if they didn't have a oversized UV sterilizer since all fish would die before ever being shipped back out.

UV can work to keep certain diseases under check (those with an on the fish - off the fish cycle) if the UV system is of the right size and the trough flow adequate (7x the entire tank volume or more per hour). You also need to make sure to replace the bulbs frequently before they loose power.
Though the cost of running such a system makes it unsustainable for most hobbyists.
UV works best to minimize the spread of diseases in a multi tank system like you find at stores or wholesalers. But the UV unit needs to be after the filter and the return pump so that the already cleaned water is sterilized before going to the individual tanks. The returns of all tanks have then to go directly into the filter and not into another tank. This is the application where it makes actually the most sense and where you find the most UV units.

So, one formalin bath before one of the tank transfers?

Trying to plan my prophylactic QT procedures. How does this look:

Day 1-2: Let fish recover from shipping, start eating.
Day 3: First TT + First round of Prazi
Day 6: Second TT
Day 9: Formalin Bath + Third Transfer
Day 12: Fourth TT + Second round of Prazi
Day 15: Final Transfer into QT

Anything missing or off at all?

I would do the first formalin dip before even putting the fish into QT. I've treated finicky eaters like regal angels and if they were eating before they didn't stop after the dip.

If you want to be sure it would be best to do a dip right before the fish are transferred into the next tank.

 

[bat21]

I would do the first formalin dip before even putting the fish into QT. I've treated finicky eaters like regal angels and if they were eating before they didn't stop after the dip.

If you want to be sure it would be best to do a dip right before the fish are transferred into the next tank.

You completely lost me. Let me first say that in case I wasn't clear, I meant that I would do the formalin dip right before a tank transfer.

Questions I have:

1. You said "first" formalin dip. Should I do more than one?
2. When you say "before even putting the fish into QT" do you mean right out of the shipping bag, before TTM? Or right after TTM, before going into full QT?

 

[Dmorty217]

I was running a Aqua UV 57w that is plumbed to have 100% of my return go through it. It is turned off right now since i am running copper. You would think that it would help but i guess i was wrong. How long before a fish with velvet dies before seeing a first symptom? First symptoms i ever noticed on my fish was my harlequin tusk flashing/scratching and that was 2.5 weeks ago and he is still alive but i had a Majestic and an Anularis angel just die within a week of each other and now i have a Lunula trigger looking like he's next.

I have seen it kill within 3 days two different times now from first sign something was a miss (scratching, heavy breathing, not eating, erratic swimming) Usually everyone will be dead within 7 days time if it's velvet IME

 

[Dmorty217]

You completely lost me. Let me first say that in case I wasn't clear, I meant that I would do the formalin dip right before a tank transfer.

Questions I have:

1. You said "first" formalin dip. Should I do more than one?
2. When you say "before even putting the fish into QT" do you mean right out of the shipping bag, before TTM? Or right after TTM, before going into full QT?

He means dip at arrival before it goes into the QT which is scary to me and makes sense from a disease standpoint but scary none the less.

 

[tassod]

All this is very insightful but i don't think it can help my current situation. At this point i will be continuing my copper treatment to see what happens. For my lunula trigger he basically looks like he's covered in powdered sugar and he scratches big time. He also is looking weak. He's still eating (he's a trigger!) but i fear that giving him a freshwater dip may put him over the edge although my S.G right now is at 1.012 (slowly going up) as i tried hypo for a bit but didn't really see any improvement. Will flukes stay on him at this low of SG?

 

[HumbleFish]

I try to limit it to one prophylactic bath per fish, unless they show symptoms of an infection that requires further treatment. So far no fish actually needed a repeat treatment.

Would love to read more about your formalin regimen, if there is a thread or something on it. Do you think one formalin bath is enough to eradicate brook/uronema, so long as the fish is placed in a "clean" QT afterwards? How about velvet?

 

[Dmorty217]

All this is very insightful but i don't think it can help my current situation. At this point i will be continuing my copper treatment to see what happens. For my lunula trigger he basically looks like he's covered in powdered sugar and he scratches big time. He also is looking weak. He's still eating (he's a trigger!) but i fear that giving him a freshwater dip may put him over the edge although my S.G right now is at 1.012 (slowly going up) as i tried hypo for a bit but didn't really see any improvement. Will flukes stay on him at this low of SG?

Man I'm sorry and feel your pain. My crosshatch ate up until the day he died... Flukes will die in hypo, but anything above hypo then they could still survive I suppose

 

[tassod]

Man I'm sorry and feel your pain. My crosshatch ate up until the day he died... Flukes will die in hypo, but anything above hypo then they could still survive I suppose

Thanks man, just found out my pakistani butterfly just died. That makes 3 fish in last week and a half and those are the exact 3 that were last added.

 

[mitchrapp]

snorvich,

First off, thank you for all you have done here. I started off with this hobby less than a year ago and have used TTM + prazi + 4 weeks observation from the get go. Thanks for starting me off right.

After I had a fish die from uronema (during TTM), I've realized that I need to start doing formalin dips. TheRoewer, I completely agree that it needs to be done right away since brook and uronema are such quick killers. But I don't know how one would do a formalin dip upon arrival since you would want to match the formalin dip salinity to the salinity of the shipping/LFS water. The store may give you a ballpark figure, but I always open the bag to measure it and more than once it has been quite off from what the store told me it would be. You are supposed to make the formalin dip and aerate 1-2 hours prior to dipping, and you wouldn't want to have that bag open for that long. If you pre-made and aerated the formalin dip, based off the ballpark figure and prior to measuring, then opened the bag and measured and it was off, then adjusting the salinity of the dip would mess up your formalin concentration.

Anyhow, so I just add an extra day and transfer into TTM. This is how I have done it with my last several fish and it seems to work well:

Day 1 - into QT
Day 2 - formalin bath then TT
Day 5 - formalin bath then TT + prazi
Day 8 - formalin bath then TT
Day 11 - formalin bath then TT + prazi
Day 14 - formalin bath then transfer to cycled QT
4 weeks observation, then transfer to DT.

Fish seem to do fine with this.

 

[bat21]

Are that many formalin baths necessary? Seems like overkill. But I have no idea what I'm talking about. My next formalin bath will be my first. But I am going to implement a similar quarantine procedure moving forward.

 

[ThRoewer]

Are that many formalin baths necessary? Seems like overkill. But I have no idea what I'm talking about. My next formalin bath will be my first. But I am going to implement a similar quarantine procedure moving forward.

I have cured a full blown Brooklynella infection on a clownfish with one single dip and transfer. Though sometimes it may require more.

If the goal is prevention without the fish showing actual symptoms I would only do one dip - the one at arrival.

... But I don't know how one would do a formalin dip upon arrival since you would want to match the formalin dip salinity to the salinity of the shipping/LFS water. .

It is done easy:

1. take the fish out of the bag and place them into a container. Take just as much water from the bag as is needed for the fish to swim. in the container.
Ideally you use a graduated container or one you have metered out and marked yourself so you know which volume you have at a certain fill level.

2. drip acclimate the fish to your QT water until you reach the mark. With my standard container it's 1/2 gallon, but you may use whatever is required for your fish.

3. if not already in it, add a air bubbler or small pump and then add the appropriate dose of formalin (20 drops per gallon). Keep an eye on the fish during the bath and pull them if they show signs of distress.

4. after 30 to 50 minutes (I always go 45) move the fish over to the QT.

 

[mitchrapp]

I have cured a full blown Brooklynella infection on a clownfish with one single dip and transfer. Though sometimes it may require more.

If the goal is prevention without the fish showing actual symptoms I would only do one dip - the one at arrival.


It is done easy:

1. take the fish out of the bag and place them into a container. Take just as much water from the bag as is needed for the fish to swim. in the container.
Ideally you use a graduated container or one you have metered out and marked yourself so you know which volume you have at a certain fill level.

2. drip acclimate the fish to your QT water until you reach the mark. With my standard container it's 1/2 gallon, but you may use whatever is required for your fish.

3. if not already in it, add a air bubbler or small pump and then add the appropriate dose of formalin (20 drops per gallon). Keep an eye on the fish during the bath and pull them if they show signs of distress.

4. after 30 to 50 minutes (I always go 45) move the fish over to the QT.

I see. You are not aerating the formalin dip for 1-2 hours prior to dipping the fish. I read that recommendation in more than one place, but the one that comes to mind is Steven Pro and Mark Callahan's No Nonsense Guide to Fish Disease and Quarantine.

 

[snorvich]

I see. You are not aerating the formalin dip for 1-2 hours prior to dipping the fish. I read that recommendation in more than one place, but the one that comes to mind is Steven Pro and Mark Callahan's No Nonsense Guide to Fish Disease and Quarantine.

I do not, but it seems reasonable.

 

[ThRoewer]

I see. You are not aerating the formalin dip for 1-2 hours prior to dipping the fish. I read that recommendation in more than one place, but the one that comes to mind is Steven Pro and Mark Callahan's No Nonsense Guide to Fish Disease and Quarantine.

There are a couple of reasons why I don't do it:

1. it seems unnecessary as so far none of the fish I treated showed any problems. Though most of my fish are small (below 4 in) and there might be a difference with larger fish.
2. it is not very practical and stresses fish unduly since they would have to sit for hours in a small container until the bath is ready.
3. if you oxidize the formalin for two hours, will it still be effective?