Why is it that clowns don't host?

[Eel Freak]

Why exactly is it that clowns won't host specific anemones? I have a pair of A. ocellaris and picked up a nice BTA at MACNA this year. I didn't have room for a carpet in my tank so I elected to get the BTA. To my disappointment, almost a month later and the clowns couldn't care any less about its existence. So I ask the question, why are clowns so particular about the anemones they host??

 

[elegance coral]

Because different species of clown have a symbiotic relationship with different species of anemone. Ocellaris doesn't have a natural symbiotic relationship with E. quadracolor.

 

[Eel Freak]

Because different species of clown have a symbiotic relationship with different species of anemone.

I was aware of this, however I guess more specifically my question is why is it that they select a particular species and when presented with another do not host? Like, what makes the clown "approve" of the anemone? Is it that the symbiotic relationship they naturally have (i.e. in the case of A. ocellaris with the carpet) is so strong they simply have no natural interest in the anemone? Or in nature is it that due to geographical differences they never encounter one?

 

[davocean]

And, clowns don't host, the nem does(terminology)
Think of the nem being the home hosting guests for the party.
Every time I see a post, "my clown won't accept a host" I assume it's an occ, almost always is.
They just seem slower to accept a host, especially tank raised.
A natural host nem will help, but even then it could take a long time for them to accept it, if ever.

 

[rssjsb]

My ocellaris took a year to dive into my BTA. If your question is what the basis for the affinity is to a particular type of anemone, I'm guessing there may be a chemical component. It's an interesting question.

 

[krak256]

My ocellaris took a year to dive into my BTA. If your question is what the basis for the affinity is to a particular type of anemone, I'm guessing there may be a chemical component. It's an interesting question.

ur right. i believe in joyce wilkerson's clownfish book, she said that each type of anemone gives off a different chemical "smell", thus each type of clownfish is drawn to specific anemones

 

[davocean]

Though quite often we do have success w/ non natural host nems w/ diff species clowns, occs for some reason seem to be somewhat problematic in this area, or at least very slow to accept host in many cases.

 

[garygb]

On the other hand, tank bred ocellaris go immediately into H. magnifica (based on my limited observations).

 

[garygb]

And from what I've read, experiments show that it is the "smell." Different species appear to have a distinct smell and their natural symbionts instinctively are attracted to that smell. No doubt, that connection has been established over eons living together in the ocean.

 

[reelfishy]

FWIW I've had 3 percs in different occaisons/tank and 2 tank bred percs didn't go near the nem and 1 WC perc that dove straight in after about 20 minutes of the introduction of the nem.

 

[BairdimusPrime]

Ive had my true perks with a gigantea for nearly 6 months and they dont so much as look at the thing... i guess its to each their own

 

[davocean]

Perc's and occellaris are different, OP's are occs.
Some do get lucky and have them host right away, but more times than not occs just don't launch into host nems as quick as most other clowns.
Some have claimed to have luck taping a pic of another occ in a host nem on tank claiming it has helped speed up process.

 

[Eel Freak]

ur right. i believe in joyce wilkerson's clownfish book, she said that each type of anemone gives off a different chemical "smell", thus each type of clownfish is drawn to specific anemones

Looking through my copy now....

FWIW I've had 3 percs in different occaisons/tank and 2 tank bred percs didn't go near the nem and 1 WC perc that dove straight in after about 20 minutes of the introduction of the nem.

So maybe the gene that controls their instinctive behavior to be with the anemone is slowly being bred out of the clowns... Has there been any real testing to confirm or disprove this?

My ocellaris took a year to dive into my BTA. If your question is what the basis for the affinity is to a particular type of anemone, I'm guessing there may be a chemical component. It's an interesting question.

That's one of my questions. What are the parameters of the anemone that make the clown choose it over any other anemone when presented with multiple anemones?

And, clowns don't host, the nem does(terminology)
Think of the nem being the home hosting guests for the party.
Every time I see a post, "my clown won't accept a host" I assume it's an occ, almost always is.
They just seem slower to accept a host, especially tank raised.
A natural host nem will help, but even then it could take a long time for them to accept it, if ever.

Thanks for the correction there! Again here we are pointing to a correlation between aquacultured and wild-caught clowns and how readily they accept host anemones... And also, does anyone know if the clownfish (any species) genome has been mapped yet?

 

[reelfishy]

I don't think it's solid proof since I know other reefers who has tank raised percs and occs that gets hosted by nems. My prior comment was just my experience. The very first perc that I had lived near a k-nano powerhead until the tank was torn down. I had RBTA and a Hatian nem in there.

 

[davocean]

I did not realize the topic changed from your original post of why do certain clowns not accept certain nems to the difference between tank bred and WC.
I was merely pointing out that quite often we CAN substitute natural host species w/ most clowns, but for some reason occs seem to be the fussiest, or slowest to accept a host nem most of the time, especially if they are not natural hosts.

 

[Eel Freak]

I was just trying to generalize a thought so sorry for any confusion I may have caused... Clowns and their host anemones fascinate me and working at an LFS I have seen a number of clowns and their anemone pairs... I can't recall as to whether or not ORA's tended to accept their hosts faster or not. I know that the Maroons have always been quick to accept an anemone host...

 

[davocean]

Most of my reading here seems tank bred are usually slower to accept nems, but it does vary by species, and yes, maroons usually go for any nem natural or not very fast.
Clarkis seem pretty quick too from my exp.
But FWIW, I would say probably most people out there keeping nems and clowns are keeping mismatched/non natural host.
When someone comes on here saying their clown doesn't seem to want to accept a host, usually then they are pointed in the direction of a natural host to remedy that.
Some exp nem keepers here do seem to lean towards natural host match's.

 

[Eel Freak]

That's interesting... Maybe aquaculturing of these clownfish is slowly breeding out the gene that controls the instinct to find an anemone. I believe Wilkerson said that within hours after metamorphosis in nature, the baby clowns establish a relationship with their anemone. I don't think ORA or C-Quest use anemones in the breeding process but I could be wrong.

 

[davocean]

The way it was pointed out to me years ago is they just don't know what it is at first.
But I think natural instincts are still there somewhat, and once they discover it...
I think it's hard to breed instincts out of most animals, and I think that every time I see dog walk in a circle before lying down as a means to clear the non existent grass like their ancestors did!LOL

 

[Eel Freak]

That's my speculation as well. Maybe the instinct after so many generations has been a bit dulled, but definitely not gone, causing it to be elicited later than if the clowns were wild caught.

I have to agree with you. Haha! I think similarly whenever my dachshunds walk in their circle before sleeping!

I noticed your avatar... is that a Snowflake pair in an RBTA? My pair is a Snowflake and black misbar.