Why put lime in your ATO?
- Thread starter Sk8r
- Start date
DownwardDawg
New member
Prime
Prime
Any input as to what the Prime may have done (if anything)? Would this hamper coral/coraline algae growth, or would that be due to having phosphates?
Should I have started a new thread for this question?
Prime
Any input as to what the Prime may have done (if anything)? Would this hamper coral/coraline algae growth, or would that be due to having phosphates?
Should I have started a new thread for this question?
DownwardDawg
New member
Where is Waterkeeper? I've read many of his posts/articles so far.
DownwardDawg
New member
There's an inexpensive alternative to ATO systems. I use this. You manually adjust the drip - it takes some trial and error. I have an auto top of but I never set it up because I don't trust it -lol.
That's very cool and simple, but $50 dollars for a jug and some airline?!?! It seems like I could make something like that for pennies. What is that little "gadget" that's controlling flow? I'm an electrician, so I have some relays and transformers laying around the house. I may pick up a float switch and small pump and make my own. How do I keep snails off of the float switch?
So there's no measuring of kalk? Depending on how much RO top off water you use, you'll have to add more? For example, I go through about a gallon of day from my 3 gallon top off bucket. So I usually refill my bucket every 2-3 days with RO water. If I put enough kalk in my top off bucket for 30 gallons, I'll need to replenish it approximately every 10 days?
Thanks for the write up... really informative..
Thanks for the write up... really informative..
That's right---but you'll have some white slurry at the bottom, so be sure to put your pump higher than the white crud, (an intake hose up a few inches would work--) and then let it settle 8 hours before turning your ATO back on: it takes that long for the excess kalk particles to settle to the bottom. If you let it settle, it's only the 'right stuff' that will make it to the tank.
It works best to add the appropriate amount of kalk every time you add RO/DI water (1-1/2 to 2 teaspoons per gallon of water). Kalkwasser may slightly elevate your Ph (it does mine), if so add 3 tablespoons of white vinegar per gallon of top off water to your reservoir. The addition of vinegar also allows the water to absorb a little more lime.
ludnix
New member
I've been using kalkwasser on my system since it started about 3 years ago. I have been very pleased with it's effects and ease of use. I take an extremely laid back approach to my tank, so it's nice to have something that takes care of the calcium and alkalinity it's own for the most part.
I keep a 5 gallon reservoir in my stand next to the sump. The ATO pumps from here directly into my sump. I keep the pump elevated a few inches from the bottom using an egg crate stand. I keep a good layer of kalk powder on the bottom of the reservoir and just add RO/DI water as needed. The Kalk will form a carbonate eventually because of it's exposure to air, but it's nothing I worry about. I just clean the reservoir out once in a while.
Here is the reservoir:
And here's my display.
I keep a 5 gallon reservoir in my stand next to the sump. The ATO pumps from here directly into my sump. I keep the pump elevated a few inches from the bottom using an egg crate stand. I keep a good layer of kalk powder on the bottom of the reservoir and just add RO/DI water as needed. The Kalk will form a carbonate eventually because of it's exposure to air, but it's nothing I worry about. I just clean the reservoir out once in a while.
Here is the reservoir:
And here's my display.
And don't start dosing max kalk right off unless you're drawing, say, a teaspoon or 2 daily in supplement with regular calcium dosing: no sense loading your system up with more than the corals are using. Start with 1 tsp per gallon, keep testing, and work up to the appropriate dose. If you start having to use vinegar, you're on the cusp of needing a calcium reactor, which is a big-tank piece of equipment. Some very-big-tanks use both kalk AND a calcium reactor, but you're not going to be there for quite a little while, starting out as a newbie. Kalk IS, however, the sanest, safest way to keep stony coral well-fed with calcium.
DownwardDawg
New member
Ya'll have been a lot of help. Thanks!
DownwardDawg
New member
I've been using kalkwasser on my system since it started about 3 years ago. I have been very pleased with it's effects and ease of use. I take an extremely laid back approach to my tank, so it's nice to have something that takes care of the calcium and alkalinity it's own for the most part.
I keep a 5 gallon reservoir in my stand next to the sump. The ATO pumps from here directly into my sump. I keep the pump elevated a few inches from the bottom using an egg crate stand. I keep a good layer of kalk powder on the bottom of the reservoir and just add RO/DI water as needed. The Kalk will form a carbonate eventually because of it's exposure to air, but it's nothing I worry about. I just clean the reservoir out once in a while.
Here is the reservoir:
And here's my display.
Where did you get that reservoir? I like the space saving "width" of it.
Lynnmw1208
New member
you mean 1 tsp per gallon of the ATO reservoir correct? I'm assuming so but just want to double check. I seriously may consider doing this! It just seems so easy! I already have a 10 gallon tank holding my RO/DI for top-off so what's adding a little something something to it? awesome, thanks for this post! should be a sticky!
greech
New member
Thank Sk8r! This info as well as your PM has helped me a lot. The one question I have is regarding settling. I think I read that the lime can fall out of solution and settle on the bottom (why you prop the pump up off the bottom). If that is the case, do you need to account for the amount of residual lime in the bottom of the container when you add more RO/DI and lime to your reservoir?
droth335
New member
This has worked well for me on my 210 (and is incredibly easy and low maintenance) but as the corals have grown my CA dropped to about 350 with straight kalk so for the past couple of months I have been adding white vinegar which has brought my CA back to about 400-420. My question is at what point do you need to switch to a CA reactor? I understand the demand of the tank but how does tank size factor into the need?
Here are some pics of my ATO system (the 20 gallon tank lasts one week between filling) and a FTS.
Here are some pics of my ATO system (the 20 gallon tank lasts one week between filling) and a FTS.
jcw
Active member
Here's a little detail of that flow regulator from Kent. It basically pinches off the tube as you move the wheel up. Standard medical IV tubing...
My corals have just started so I'm just dripping my kalk from a plastic gallon bottle. I just use this slightly upgraded IV flow regulator. Set it at 125cc/hr at night, 100cc/hr during the day. It works great and is cheap.
My corals have just started so I'm just dripping my kalk from a plastic gallon bottle. I just use this slightly upgraded IV flow regulator. Set it at 125cc/hr at night, 100cc/hr during the day. It works great and is cheap.
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Let me clarify: if your tank has stopped drawing, say, 1/2 tsp of Kent Turbo Calcium beads per week (for example), and has started drawing a whole teaspoon per week, you're on your way to needing this. If you reach the point where you are dosing daily, you definitely can use this.
When I talk about amount of kalkwasser (limewater in the ATO) I use, that is rated in quarts or gallons per day, because that is your topoff: my 54 gallon tank, for example, evaporates a gallon a day (a high evaporation rate is good in a tank)---and I was replacing that gallon daily with ro/di. Now I simply add lime to my ATO reservoir, so I am in effect throwing in 1 whole gallon of limewater (kalkwasser, in German) per day instead of just plain fresh water.
Understand, you don't need a stirrer or mixing pump for this: what dissolves in the first stir is all that will ever dissolve. The residue can lie harmlessly at the bottom of your ATO, once it settles, (and do not use the limewater UNTIL the reservoir has settled as much as it will!)---and once you add more ro/di water to that reservoir, the residue will mix into that water and become limewater in exactly the right strength: any little molecule of lime that can't bind itself to some water molecule has to fall to the bottom again and wait out the NEXT addition of ro/di. Think of it as dates to the big dance: if you don't get asked, [get a water molecule of your own] you have to wait for a new batch to get poured in.
Mrs. Wages' Pickling Lime has very little in it that is not lime---but after a number of months, like every half year, hosing out your topoff reservoir will remove anything that won't dissolve.
You can buy kalk by the jar, but it's way pricier. One of the beauties of using the pickling lime (which is actually packaged for making pickles, in canning) is that it is incredibly cheap, but real high quality all the same.
Understand, there IS lime [calcium] in your salt mix---and this is the big difference (besides price) between reef salt and fish-only salt. Reef salt has enough calcium to sustain corals and feed them a little. It also has some other traces corals need. SO you still need your water changes to keep those traces supplied: they're far too futzy (and expensive) to add any other way, as a home hobbyist. BUT once corals suck all the calcium out of the salt mix, they need more, and more. Not only that, your fish need it---not near as much, but some, just as you do, as a living creature. Calcium is part of the muscle power cycle (calcium/lactic acid) and total lack of calcium is serious stuff. Calcium is part of the skeleton. Bone can weaken. Muscle stops working, including the heart; snail shells dissolve little holes with the snails still living in them, poor things. So if you have stony coral, and it is enclosed in a glass box sucking up all available calcium---you cannot neglect to supplement it by some means. A living reef is incredibly hungry for this stuff, because, remember, the whole bony structure of the reef itself is built out of calcium, and it is incredibly efficient at sucking it up.
People fuss a lot about 'how do I feed my corals'---and if it's a stony, you primarily give it 2 things: strong light that powers its internal zooxanthellae (photosynthetic cells) to produce sugars for its energy, and calcium that powers its expansion and contraction, its ability to suck water, and enables it to divide and build skeleton. Any shrimp you also feed it is gravy: but these 2 things it has to have. And it will rob your fish and inverts to get this one.
When I talk about amount of kalkwasser (limewater in the ATO) I use, that is rated in quarts or gallons per day, because that is your topoff: my 54 gallon tank, for example, evaporates a gallon a day (a high evaporation rate is good in a tank)---and I was replacing that gallon daily with ro/di. Now I simply add lime to my ATO reservoir, so I am in effect throwing in 1 whole gallon of limewater (kalkwasser, in German) per day instead of just plain fresh water.
Understand, you don't need a stirrer or mixing pump for this: what dissolves in the first stir is all that will ever dissolve. The residue can lie harmlessly at the bottom of your ATO, once it settles, (and do not use the limewater UNTIL the reservoir has settled as much as it will!)---and once you add more ro/di water to that reservoir, the residue will mix into that water and become limewater in exactly the right strength: any little molecule of lime that can't bind itself to some water molecule has to fall to the bottom again and wait out the NEXT addition of ro/di. Think of it as dates to the big dance: if you don't get asked, [get a water molecule of your own] you have to wait for a new batch to get poured in.
Mrs. Wages' Pickling Lime has very little in it that is not lime---but after a number of months, like every half year, hosing out your topoff reservoir will remove anything that won't dissolve.
You can buy kalk by the jar, but it's way pricier. One of the beauties of using the pickling lime (which is actually packaged for making pickles, in canning) is that it is incredibly cheap, but real high quality all the same.
Understand, there IS lime [calcium] in your salt mix---and this is the big difference (besides price) between reef salt and fish-only salt. Reef salt has enough calcium to sustain corals and feed them a little. It also has some other traces corals need. SO you still need your water changes to keep those traces supplied: they're far too futzy (and expensive) to add any other way, as a home hobbyist. BUT once corals suck all the calcium out of the salt mix, they need more, and more. Not only that, your fish need it---not near as much, but some, just as you do, as a living creature. Calcium is part of the muscle power cycle (calcium/lactic acid) and total lack of calcium is serious stuff. Calcium is part of the skeleton. Bone can weaken. Muscle stops working, including the heart; snail shells dissolve little holes with the snails still living in them, poor things. So if you have stony coral, and it is enclosed in a glass box sucking up all available calcium---you cannot neglect to supplement it by some means. A living reef is incredibly hungry for this stuff, because, remember, the whole bony structure of the reef itself is built out of calcium, and it is incredibly efficient at sucking it up.
People fuss a lot about 'how do I feed my corals'---and if it's a stony, you primarily give it 2 things: strong light that powers its internal zooxanthellae (photosynthetic cells) to produce sugars for its energy, and calcium that powers its expansion and contraction, its ability to suck water, and enables it to divide and build skeleton. Any shrimp you also feed it is gravy: but these 2 things it has to have. And it will rob your fish and inverts to get this one.
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Genj
New member
sk8r,
I currently have a tunze osmolator in a DIY acrylic cube that hold about 4.5 gallons of RODI. Using Tropic Marin Pro, I am always low on my PH level and my alk as well. I do not use a Calc reactor, thus I add TLF PH buffer into the ATO tank. After reading this, I feel that I might want to switch to kalk in the ATO rather than the PH buffer?
My current parms are: Ca 440, mag 1350, temp 80, Alk is between 8 and 9.6 (over the course of 2 months measurement).
I currently have a tunze osmolator in a DIY acrylic cube that hold about 4.5 gallons of RODI. Using Tropic Marin Pro, I am always low on my PH level and my alk as well. I do not use a Calc reactor, thus I add TLF PH buffer into the ATO tank. After reading this, I feel that I might want to switch to kalk in the ATO rather than the PH buffer?
My current parms are: Ca 440, mag 1350, temp 80, Alk is between 8 and 9.6 (over the course of 2 months measurement).
It comes in at a ph of 12, and of course falls off rapidly as it mixes and hits tank chemistry: use reducing connectors to get that entry hose down to airline tubing size to prevent a big dollop going in at once, and it should both raise the ph and keep your alk steady. Try it in a small 1 tsp dose in the ato reservoir and see how it works for you.
reefer_new
New member
Sk8r -
i plan on keeping soft corals so the demand on calcium should not be high in my tank
But can i still put lime in my ATO to buffer the PH??
also what happens if i keep doing lime.. but calcium is not used in my Tank
will it throw the whole system out of whack??
i.e. Alk Ca and PH
Thax
for ur help
i plan on keeping soft corals so the demand on calcium should not be high in my tank
But can i still put lime in my ATO to buffer the PH??
also what happens if i keep doing lime.. but calcium is not used in my Tank
will it throw the whole system out of whack??
i.e. Alk Ca and PH
Thax
for ur help
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