Why so many Problems?
- Thread starter Paul B
- Start date
Paul B
Premium Member
Oh, I thought you said protostant. We can't discuss religion here. :facepalm:
Yes, there are plenty of posts about diseases, I posted many many times on why I think that is. I don't have a quarantine or hospital tank and my fish never get sick. To me it is just a food thing but what do I know?
I could be way off, maybe I am just really lucky.
It has nothing to do with the LFS. I buy from 8 or 9 of them besides collecting all sorts of things myself.
I think 2 years ago I had flatworms on everything, I posted about them but I didn't do anything for it, they just went away on their own, I think they got bored.
Thats never a good thing, what do you feed your fish?
I am bald and yesterday I thought I had a serious boat problem that I would have to haul the boat out of the water to fix, but I redesigned the thing and now it works perfectly. Problem averted.
My hermit crabs have canker sores on their lips older than that.
I am sorry to hear that. We do have "real" problems in life but life is not a hobby.
My Dad died suddenly when I was 10, my wife has MS and I crashed twice in a helocopter, those "Problems" are life and we have no control over it, but we do totally control our hobbies which are supposed to be fun, otherwise, why bother? We could just focus on life's problems with out creating more problems with fish.
I guess being that I have been doing this so long I have learned not to have problems.
After killing half of the creatures in the sea I learned a few things and I try to confer that experience on here which is why I have a thread 7 years long.
But if I say something like live food like worms and live baby brine shrimp or fish oil boosts the immune system of fish to the point where they do not get sick, it is because I figured that out from years of killing things. I didn't just make it up. Why don't my fish get sick? Is it my good looks? I don't think so. My reverse UG filter? get real. My schedule of having no schedule, no scheduled water changes, almost no dosing, no testing. Wow I am really lucky. So what do I do different?
Lets see, I add bacteria from the sea (yes, that may be tough if you live in Idaho, but I can't help that), and I feed fish oil, live worms and clams. Seems simple to me.
I don't want to go into this here because I posted it too many times that it is even making me sick.
I did also, and after 38 years she is still my best friend and we hang out every day. I met her when she was 12 and I dated her older cousin. She is 6 years younger than me.
The third picture is her when we were married. How could I resist that?
No she does not, her dog takes up all of her busy life.
We aged a little since then, well I did anyway.
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CoralReeferGal
New member
Paul, I am new to the forums, and this is the first I think I've seen a post by you. I just had to say, I greatly admire your outlook on reef keeping and life in general! I am kinda new to the hobby, my fiance has had a tank for 10 years now, and I do more of the stocking the tank, where as he does the "hard stuff" like maintenance haha 
I tend to freak out when something goes not as planned, and you have not only given me the insight that things wont always go perfectly but to expect them not to. I think my panicking tends to make him panic, because prior to me getting more into it, he had an outlook closer to yours... Thank you for the humor; I needed that today! and thank you for inspiring me to just relax and deal with things patiently as they come up!
I tend to freak out when something goes not as planned, and you have not only given me the insight that things wont always go perfectly but to expect them not to. I think my panicking tends to make him panic, because prior to me getting more into it, he had an outlook closer to yours... Thank you for the humor; I needed that today! and thank you for inspiring me to just relax and deal with things patiently as they come up!
Paul B
Premium Member
Sarah, I am glad you posted, there are not enough Ladies on here, at least I am not sure how many there are because many of their names are something like:
Dr, Godzilla, Clam-O-Mania, Gorgonian am I, etc so I don't get a real sence of what gender they are. But you being CoralReeferGal, I can tell right away.
Sometimes I think I am talking to a big hairy moosecatcher and it turns out to be a cute little skinny girl scout.
Your tank is 10 years old (I think) that is a fairly old tank, you shouldn't have any problems by now. Diseases and things like hair algae and cyano are mostly in new tanks, although my tank has some hair algae and cyano now. I think it gives it character.
If you are interested I started a thread on here a month or so ago about how we did this in the beginning. This hobby started in New York at least in 1971. It started in Germany earlier.
It is here http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2172887
My wife likes fish (we just ate cod) and we have always dove together but she really doesn't have much interest in the tank, neither does our Daughter who is now married.
I really don't have anyone I can share this hobby with, which is the reason I go on here.
That and my wife likes me out of the way when she is cleaning.
Dr, Godzilla, Clam-O-Mania, Gorgonian am I, etc so I don't get a real sence of what gender they are. But you being CoralReeferGal, I can tell right away.
Sometimes I think I am talking to a big hairy moosecatcher and it turns out to be a cute little skinny girl scout.
Your tank is 10 years old (I think) that is a fairly old tank, you shouldn't have any problems by now. Diseases and things like hair algae and cyano are mostly in new tanks, although my tank has some hair algae and cyano now. I think it gives it character.
If you are interested I started a thread on here a month or so ago about how we did this in the beginning. This hobby started in New York at least in 1971. It started in Germany earlier.
It is here http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2172887
My wife likes fish (we just ate cod) and we have always dove together but she really doesn't have much interest in the tank, neither does our Daughter who is now married.
I really don't have anyone I can share this hobby with, which is the reason I go on here.
That and my wife likes me out of the way when she is cleaning.
Yeah, I confess that when I see a thread with "emergency," "urgent," "need immediate help," or even exclamation points, I move on. IMO, if someone needs help, the poster should clearly state what the perceived problem is, make an attempt to provide the information needed to assess the problem, and hope that someone with enough experience will help the poster determine what the real problem is and how to try to fix it. Instead, too many of the "emergency" posts I have seen, histrionically present a problem (in many case past remedy), do not provide enough info, and then aggressively defend against suggested help.
CoralReeferGal
New member
It is 10 year old; the biggest "problem" we have is trying to figure out why things are disappearing. Haven't had an algae problem since before I've been around and no disease! I thought maybe we were lucky, but seeing your standpoint on things, maybe its not all luck. We have NEVER quarantined a fish or coral. We drip acclimate for an hour or two, and into the tank they go, never had a problem.
I will def check that thread out. Very interested to see how you did things! Thanks!
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CoralReeferGal
New member
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2187006
There's the link with the info regarding our disappearances, if you have any suggestions or ideas that weren't mentioned there, Paul?
There's the link with the info regarding our disappearances, if you have any suggestions or ideas that weren't mentioned there, Paul?
Shoryureppa
New member
I am on here once or twice a day and almost all the posts are about problems.
I just searched on here for "problems" and you get about 879 pages about all sorts of things that either went wrong, are going wrong, are wrong now, or they knew someone that everything went wrong, it's just wrong.
Then I searched for the word "fantastic" and I came up with things like "my new Chrysler is fantastic" My girlfriend is fantastic, My wife is a fantastic cook, my feet look fantastic, Christie Brinkley was fantastic, American Idol is fantastic, I just ate a salami hero that was fantastic, but no one comes on here to say that their tank is fantastic with no problems.
Why is that?
Isn't this a hobby? And should we join a hobby that is nothing but problems?:uhoh2:
I don't have problems, Never. Why? Because I don't perceive these occurances as problems. They are part of my hobby that I wanted to be a part of so anything that happens is just part of the hobby.
99.9% of the stuff that is perceived to be a problem is our fault. Those fish in our tanks were happily swimming in Tahiti minding their own business when some Jaboni with a net scooped them up to sell to us so we can complain that it got "pop eye", "cotton wool leasions", "Black ich, white ich, pink ich, ich ich, velvet, satin, felt, cordoroy, dropsy or swim bladder disease.
Do you know why fish get these things? Because they are sick and tired of hearing us complain. They are fed up to here, (my hand is under my chin)
with "problems" and just want to live in piece.
This could not be more true! Love the wisdom Paul!
When someone looks into their tank looking for problems that's all they are going to find. WHY? Because that is all they pay attention to and not what's going right. Look for trouble and it will find you or you will find it. I mean, why spend all this money only to look for faults? I just don't get it. Enjoy the darn fish, look at the big picture and not the minute details.
I learned that a big part of life, and in anything is the acceptance of everything that comes along with it. I think people forget that we are trying to recreate nature. People forget that it's millions of years of evolution. You cannot create something like that in your lifetime. This hobby comes with a few "problems". I just don't treat them as such. It will happen and it will be corrected. It's only a matter of time. I don't stress about things too much in this hobby. I'd rather watch the fish do it's thing!
Cupramine this, Prazi-Pro that. I have never medicated any of my fish. and I have never lost one due to disease. My fish had gotten ich before. I do not quarantine fish. I think people forget to research before buying. They end up having fish that are incompatible then aggression happens. Now someone will say "yeah but each fish is different" as in it's all dependent on the individual fish. I get it. If they aren't compatible then you will have to remove it now, don't you? "I don't want to rip apart my tank". It's your fault! I also understand that these fish have immune systems. Fish will get sick, no matter what. All I really do is feed them regularly and it eventually goes away. Don't want sick fish? Try keeping your hands out of the tank moving stuff around. Try to not shove your face against the glass looking for diseases and hitchhikers. How would you feel if someone stuffed you in a bottle and inspected you?
Most people wallow in negative things. They all want to chime in and give advice to feel like an expert. They flame people if one disagrees against them. This is a forum, there are other people that use it. Not everyone thinks like you or will agree with you. The 6:00 news starts with "Good Evening!" then proceeds to tell you about someone who got mugged or shot. It's the society we live in. Look at the front page of a newspaper and tell me I'm wrong.
People take advice on here like it's medicine. They look to people to solve their problems instead of figuring it out. I try to pay attention to who I am taking advice from. I remember asking about DSB's. One guy told me it's apootrap and a ticking time bomb. Then I asked him if he ever kept a DSB, Turns out he has a bare bottom and has never kept one. GREAT ADVICE! I try to take everything I read or hear or see with a grain of salt. I know in the end I am responsible for everything.
I'll probably get flamed for all my ramblings. All i know is that the people who will are probably guilty of what I just spoke about. :lol:
Happy Reefing Everyone :dance:
Shoryureppa
New member
skidoctor
New member
I gotta be honest- I do read a lot of the problem threads. Once in a while I'll offer an opinion, but only if I've run into a similar issue. Most of the time it boils down to "don't touch anything and let it run its course." I've never qt'd, used medicies, freaked and did a 99.9% water change. Seems like a lot of work. I have taken steps to make my hobbying easier or more interesting. I've given up on testing, knowing that my tank will tell me when something is wrong. And most times it just has to toughen up and deal with it. Sure, I've lost a couple of fish and some corals. Most people here would have me shot. I see it as part of the game- housing aimals in an unnatural setting. I have found that as my tank matures and I keep my grubby hands out of it- I enjoy it all the more.
Yes, I have cyano in my sump. I overfeed and probably have high nitrates. But everyone in my tank is happy at this point. I have better things to stress about.
Yes, I have cyano in my sump. I overfeed and probably have high nitrates. But everyone in my tank is happy at this point. I have better things to stress about.
FWIW, I've read your articles on nutrition and have implemented most of your suggestions. My DT and QTs gets pellets soaked in fish oil once a day, clams and when I visit my parents, I always bring back live blackworms. The fish in my DT always look great, the fish in my QT always have issues. I'm just not brave enough yet to totally forgo the QT and let their immune systems fight the diseases off.
Paul B
Premium Member
Fish never look great in a QT tank, They don't want to be in there and neither would I.
They just came from a crowded dealers tank and now they are in most cases a smaller tank sometimes with medications. They don't feel secure which means they are stressed which IMO leads to sickness so it may be counter productive.
I know that many people are afraid of introducing a disease but I feel a Qt tank is a major contributer of disease. But don't go by me, go with your gut. I do what I do but I don't like to advise on that.
Paul B
Premium Member
CoralReeferGal, I read most of your thread and I know you mentioned that you tested for bristle worms but I still feel they are at the bottom of it. A mantis shrimp will not eat an entire snowflake eel nor will any other one animal in a tank. That slimy thing you mentioned is a vegetarian and I also have one of them. They get quite large.
But I can't believe in a 10 year old tank you don't have a hundred or so bristle worms. I have hundreds myself and their combined mass could eat anything in your tank although they would not be able to kill anything, it would have to be dead or almost dead.
They have a huge appetite and are very good at disappearing under the rocks. They can also grow about a foot long which would not get caught in your trap.
What did you bait the trap with?
I built a trap and use clam, they love clams and will come from all sides of the tank for them and they have a fantastic sense of smell and will easily find food in a tank.
My trap and some bristle worms. This was from one night, I can catch this many every night
Paul B
Premium Member
My theory will not work great in a quarantine tank because what we call stress in fish is a broad term but it means anything that is not normal for a fish. Captivity is not normal and captivity in a smaller quarantine tank is even less normal and would stress a fish no matter what you feed it. If a human prisoner in a tiny cell is fed filet mignon every night, it will not do anything to lessen his fears or make him feel any better. But humans can go through that and not get sick, fish can't. Being a cold blooded creature they have a totally different constitution. Their immune system works fantastic because they "breathe" water. Water has everything in it, every disease, every microbe and paracite, their systems have evolved to deal with all of this. We humans have it easy because in the air we breathe there is no where near the pathogens that there are in seawater. And in a tank, they are much more concentrated and came from different oceans with different conditions then mixed with various animals in a dealer's tanks that may have been running for decades there by increrasing the number of potential disease causing organisms. It is a wonder than any of them survive.
When we get them in our tanks we have to immediately boost their immune systems to near what they were in the sea. This can only be done if the fish feels secure and if it is fed correctly. Correct food for almost any fish is live or at least whole food. Shrimp tails, scallop, beef heart, fish fillets, salmon meal or squid are not the correct foods. All of those foods I mentioned are only parts of the animal. We need to feed the guts, the parts we don't eat. There is a reason that fish eat the guts of a dead fish first. They know where the nitrition is. Almost all the nutrition in a fish is in the guts, not in the muscle that is normally fed and the liver contains almost all of the oil. 1/4 of the weight of almost any fish could be pure fish oil. In the sea, they eat this every day so a fish gets about a fifth of it's entire meal as oil.
It is very simple but almost no one realizes this, most people continue to feed the wrong foods, then they write numerous posts on what medications they need to cure something.
Fish should almost never get sick. Remember most of the fish we keep have a lifespan of about 15 or 20 years. If they are living 2 or 3 years that is like a human living for 10 years. If you lived in a town where virtually everyone died at the age of 10, you may not want to live there.
In the days of sailing ships, on long voyages much of the crew died from scurvy. Eventually they found that limes cured it so they began carrying limes on the ships. (That is also why they are called limey's)
It was such a simple thing, lack of vitamin C.
Fish, in tanks have a huge deficit of vitamin A which is a major component of fish oil. We as humans can't take much of that but a fish can eat a quarter of it's weight in the stuff every day. That would be like me eating 30lbs of fish oil a day (yuck). But I am only part fish so that would kill me.
If a shark eats a fish that weighs 100lbs, he is eating about 15lbs of vitamin A. If they eat that in the sea, every day, it stands to reason it is needed in their diet. It is not in commercial foods because it goes bad, and it stinks to high heaven. Even if you freeze it it goes bad but you can get it in whole foods like clams, mysis, fish eggs, worms and whole clams. You can also soak pellets in it but I think worms are better.
OK I posted this on here numerous times so thats it. I am done now. :deadhorse:
tylersarah
Member
Guilty as stated, but Paul, you should see all these prototypes I've created for blackworm feeders because I couldn't buy yours manufactured. Tyler came home from work and said, "What is going on here?!"
ken55
A wing and a prayer
I pretty much gave up on posting advice. Apparently I do everything wrong. My tank is the wrong size, I don't use a sump, I have the wrong fish, my water source is wrong, I buy supplies from Petco, I don't get all hung up on chemistry, I have Auto-nothing, I don't get emails from my tank, oh it just goes on and on. Pffft, my tank is healthy and that's all that really matters. Just because I don't fit the current template for popular ideas doesn't mean much of anything.
I have to say that the common theme of "you may be right but I am more right that you" is tiresome. And it doesn't even have to involve me. That very theme can be seen on dozens of threads right now. Oh well... it is what it is. I like RC and I don't plan on going anywhere but I'll mostly keep my thoughts to myself.
Happy Reefing:beer:
I have to say that the common theme of "you may be right but I am more right that you" is tiresome. And it doesn't even have to involve me. That very theme can be seen on dozens of threads right now. Oh well... it is what it is. I like RC and I don't plan on going anywhere but I'll mostly keep my thoughts to myself.
Happy Reefing:beer:
CoralReeferGal
New member
CoralReeferGal, I read most of your thread and I know you mentioned that you tested for bristle worms but I still feel they are at the bottom of it. A mantis shrimp will not eat an entire snowflake eel nor will any other one animal in a tank. That slimy thing you mentioned is a vegetarian and I also have one of them. They get quite large.
But I can't believe in a 10 year old tank you don't have a hundred or so bristle worms. I have hundreds myself and their combined mass could eat anything in your tank although they would not be able to kill anything, it would have to be dead or almost dead.
They have a huge appetite and are very good at disappearing under the rocks. They can also grow about a foot long which would not get caught in your trap.
What did you bait the trap with?
I built a trap and use clam, they love clams and will come from all sides of the tank for them and they have a fantastic sense of smell and will easily find food in a tank.
My trap and some bristle worms. This was from one night, I can catch this many every night
we tried the soda bottle trap and baited it with a margarita snail... is that a home made trap you used, or can we purchase it somewhere? I'll have to try clam... we did lose a derasa in there, who didn't look too good for a few days then all of a sudden the shell has half empty, but I just don't get why everything (fish) would look so happy when the lights go out and we go to bed, then in the morning, poof, they're just gone...
