Why SPS Masters, Experts, Gurus don't use LED's as their main light sources?
- Thread starter elblond
- Start date
Sorry bro, ask them, but the real SPS experts and masters to mention some Sonny(Sunny), Jared(Rocky Mountain) and the others, you have to be more than convinced to change form something that's works for you, is proven and works like no other yet to something isn't proven yet. Is an issue of work, dedication, money, time, etc... It can cost you a lot.
I'm a SPS freak and I know that to keep successfully SPS, there're many factors but in this thread I'm asking about lighting specifically LED's.
tahiriqbal
Sialkot
IMO, people you have mentioned may have great understanding of "why fix something that isn't broken". There are several tanks out there which solely run on LED lighting fixtures with great success and been mentioned many times before in this same thread. The magic formula to get the LED spectrum correct still needs solving and there is a lot of research going on this topic even on this forum. I am not too sure but there was thread with title "my emperor not wearing any clothes" or something along the line and there was hell a lot of information on different spectrum etc.
We also pretty much know that MH and sodium lighting will be phased out in the near future which means we will have no choice but to move on to something else such as plasma or LED lighting fixtures to illuminate our reef tanks. Hopefully by that time correct spectrum LEDs will be available on the market at a reasonable price hence will encourage people to make a move onto LEDs.
Tahir
miwoodar
Likey the bikey
I just read that last week. I found it very informative.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1885076&page=14
Also, there is a big difference in setting up a new tank with LEDs versus changing a 'show tank' to LEDs. The former has very little risk because you have a few hundred dollars in nubs and a few trips to the LFS invested. The latter is years of service and dedication. Even changing from one halide to another is a big deal on the latter. Look at 64Ivy's tank crash for example.
Jon_Hewett_85
Member
If anyone has two tanks of similar size and some money to spend, why don't they put this debate to rest and set up two tanks side by side (running off of the same sump), using all of the same equipment EXCEPT lighting (you could even go as far as putting a wall in between the two tanks to make sure the light doesn't flood into the other tank).
Then the environment would be exactly the same (or as close as you could get two separate tanks), and the only variable would be the lighting.
Kind of hard to believe this hasn't been done before to be honest (or if it has, that someone hasn't shared their experience).
So who wants to give this a go?!?!?!
-Chad
AHA!! But I am doing this! I have a 20g display in my bedroom with 2 x 7 lamp PAR38 Bulbs over it. In my living room I have a 40B with a 250w 20KK Halide over it. Both tanks are are plumbed into a common sump in the closer with a E-Shopps PSK-150 skimmer and a ball of chaeto. I've got about 15g of water running in the sump. The 40B has not been online that long, just 2-3 months. I am trying to put many of the same things in both tanks to compare the growth rates / color etc.
The 20g has had LED's from the get go (tank has been up almost a year). I used to 250w MH over the 40g when i got it going simply because I had the fixture laying around and I was able to get a slightly used bulb cheap. Then I thought to myself...hey wouldn't it be cool if I moved some frags under the halide and see what happens.
It is too early to render a verdict, but my initial perception with the direct comparison is that the quality of light from the LED's is right up there with the MH. Both tanks seem to have similar growth rates/coloration, etc. My tank is a mixed reef but is definitely SPS dominated.
tahiriqbal
Sialkot
Could we see some photos of both tanks side by side please?
Tahir
Tahir
acroholicreefer
New member
There are a lot of factors that go into growing sps successfully, one of them is stability. Why change something that is going to risk stability? LEDs will grow sps corals but I am not ready yet.
MammothReefer
Active member
We don't all run the same Halide bulbs. Are we saying that every halide bulb covers the spectrum required perfectly? I'm sure some are better then others, just like some led combos are better then others.
ganjero
saiperchémibatteilcorazon
no master here ... but the main reason for "masters" not switching yet, is cause the technology is new, and we are still using old LEDs, [cause they need to sell !!] before moving onto the new ones
Sanjay had an article on coral magazine[great article in general], stating that Photon is a Photon, doesnt matter the source. Which is just wrong ! alot of things effect a given Photon ! electric field, magnatic field, electromagnetic field of propagation[for penetration and energy transfer], and alot of intensity and wavelength parameters. studying in a biophotonic lab working on OCT systems has shown me how "wrong" some of the LED lights out there are today ! and if anyone wants to measure they LEDs spectrum, there are easy ways to do so at home
wait a while, see the LEDs that would come out, I know guys down at TSMC are already working on it
Are you Dr. Sanjay Joshi is wrong?
power boat jim
Well-known member
Seems to me this whole LED thing is starting to involve WAAAAYYY too much thought. We have people worried about how a photon is affected by magnetic fields and what not. It seems pretty simple to me, coral can flourish under a number of light sources.Someone could probably grow coral under a bunch of flash lights if they could keep the batteries charged.I see it this way, If you are afraid to change your light source-Dont. If you like the possibilities present day LEDs present, have at it, cause they work. I know people who have crashed tanks under every available light source past and present but we still use them all.
Santoki
Shimmer Addict
I think the OP is bored and just looking to start the same LED debate that's been done over and over. Like many have already said, there are many successful LED only sps tanks out there. Just do a search and you will find them. As for spectrum, maybe everyone here is too young to remember the days when people grew SPS with those gawd-awful yellow sodium vapor bulbs? SPS grew just fine under that ugly light.
If you prefer MH, T5, VHO, or whatever, then great, but why try to find non-existent negatives with LEDs? I think everyone's tanks will be more successful if they just focused on keeping their water chemistry stable, instead of looking to blame equipment as the cause.
As for why the "Masters" haven't switched? I'm not a master but I know why I I'm still using the same lights I built more than 2 years ago even though my lights are 2-3 generations behind the latest LED technologies. Things are working for me. I attribute this to stability. I find that the slightest change to my setup results in paused growth, or change in colors. Having taken my dumb head years to realize this, I hesitate to make any changes to my system now when I don't have to.
-Robert
The only thing I would love do now is remove that rim from my tank..
If you prefer MH, T5, VHO, or whatever, then great, but why try to find non-existent negatives with LEDs? I think everyone's tanks will be more successful if they just focused on keeping their water chemistry stable, instead of looking to blame equipment as the cause.
As for why the "Masters" haven't switched? I'm not a master but I know why I I'm still using the same lights I built more than 2 years ago even though my lights are 2-3 generations behind the latest LED technologies. Things are working for me. I attribute this to stability. I find that the slightest change to my setup results in paused growth, or change in colors. Having taken my dumb head years to realize this, I hesitate to make any changes to my system now when I don't have to.
-Robert
The only thing I would love do now is remove that rim from my tank..
redhanded77
New member
I think some people (and I am not inferring anything about the OP) cannot accept the fact that leds are capable of supporting a reef tank. Ive kept a mixed reef under leds for over a year. Growth, color and everything was fine. Ive also kept the same reef under t5's for 2 years. Like others have said, its about stability and water quality, then lighting. Im sure corals will "adapt" and try to make the best of whatever light source they get. Better for them if that light source is close to the spectrum they need/want, and also better for them if they are getting the intensity they need.
Ive had this discussion with a buddy who studies corals, and they have done experiments with corals under different lighting conditions and intensities. I don't know all the details, but from what I was told, the corals all did fine under natural sun, MH, t5 and led. He did state there was 4-8 weeks of acclimation and change in corals growth and color, but none of them died and eventually "adapted" to their lighting source. They were all plumbed into the same system.
In the past couple of months there have been alot of posts about leds and the negatives. People have to remember that just because you spend over a thousand dollars on a led light setup, that does not guarantee you results. There are wayyyy too many factors besides lighting to worry about. Why haven't some of the other people changed to leds? I think because there current setup is working fine for them. BUT IF, they were to change to leds and keep everything else the same, Im sure in a few months, their tanks will still look good.
Ive had this discussion with a buddy who studies corals, and they have done experiments with corals under different lighting conditions and intensities. I don't know all the details, but from what I was told, the corals all did fine under natural sun, MH, t5 and led. He did state there was 4-8 weeks of acclimation and change in corals growth and color, but none of them died and eventually "adapted" to their lighting source. They were all plumbed into the same system.
In the past couple of months there have been alot of posts about leds and the negatives. People have to remember that just because you spend over a thousand dollars on a led light setup, that does not guarantee you results. There are wayyyy too many factors besides lighting to worry about. Why haven't some of the other people changed to leds? I think because there current setup is working fine for them. BUT IF, they were to change to leds and keep everything else the same, Im sure in a few months, their tanks will still look good.
Allmost
New member
if you mean "are you saying Dr. Sanjay is wrong ?"
then yes, and no
re-read my post !"Sanjay had an article on coral magazine[great article in general], stating that Photon is a Photon, doesnt matter the source. Which is just wrong ! alot of things effect a given Photon ! electric field, magnatic field, electromagnetic field of propagation[for penetration and energy transfer], and alot of intensity and wavelength parameters."
LEDs, can be tuned to output same photon configuration as MH or T5 .. but they do not currently
source ? my lab
I study biophotonics.Nobody noticed or realized something from the basic, the shape of the MH's, T-5's and LED's bulbs and the way the light is reflected to the tank and the corals by the way by the reflectors made for each one. That's a great difference between them primarily between MH's-T-5's vs LED's, for example the effect of "glittering", the MH's reflect light to the whole coral; base to tip. This not an issue of MH's watts vs LED's watts, is more an issue of reflection.
-Sorry for my English, I hope you understand me, I try to do my best!
-Sorry for my English, I hope you understand me, I try to do my best!
Garage1217
GET OFF MY LAWN
^^ agreed with santoki. The op is just starting the same turd stirring topic that has been overdone 1000x over already. Halides work awesome, T5 work awesome and LED of course work awesome. If you buy a cheap crap fixture, poor quality bulbs or leds, your results will vary of course. All three work really, really awesome if the tank is cared for properly and water chemistry is in check. I have run all 3 common reef lighting techs and currently use LED tech with zero plans to change and I have grown many-o-sps with stunning colors and excellent growth and so have countless others.
It all comes full circle and is funny as this all went on when T5's came out, and higher K halides came out. None could possibly grow corals over a sodium bulb! Then none could grow coral over 5500K halide! Then all the crazyness over wild vivid colors of t5's and how the corals would all die in 3 months as the light was for looks and would not grow anything... Good grief. Funny to watch however
It all comes full circle and is funny as this all went on when T5's came out, and higher K halides came out. None could possibly grow corals over a sodium bulb! Then none could grow coral over 5500K halide! Then all the crazyness over wild vivid colors of t5's and how the corals would all die in 3 months as the light was for looks and would not grow anything... Good grief. Funny to watch however
Urchinhead
New member
if you mean "are you saying Dr. Sanjay is wrong
source ? my lab
You mention a Michelson interferometer as a way to examine spectrum at home... How would one go about doing this? I vaguely remember the Michelson-Morley experiment way back in college but don't see the tie in here. Don't you need a spectrograph to do this?
