Why?

[alterity]

Ok so last Sunday I put in the Clown and he was doing great, as was everything else in my tank. Thursday when I went to bad he was very happy. Then suddenly yesterday morning when I woke up, he was laying at the bottom of the tank breathing heavily. All the inverts are doing just fine in the tank.

I tested EVERYTHING every other day since I put him in. Everything is at or very close to 0s. Nitrate was up just a touch, but nothing over 5.

I had the same thing happen a month ago when I put in a couple of damsels and they both died. What can I do to prevent this from happening in the future?

I moved one of the rocks in the tank the night before he got sick. Could I have kicked up something?
However, I hadn't had any fish in there for a month. so my understanding of Ich says that there has to be a host in there or the parasite will die? What should I do? I thought I was going to be ok after letting the tank cure a bit and making sure I was done with the nitrogen cycle, this has got me down.....

I know I have a young tank, but I'm wondering if I should just wait to put fish in for another few months? Or if it's possible that the exact same thing will happen again.

 

[capncapo]

Were your fish wild caught or tank raised?

From what I've read, ich can last for 60 days without a host but if it was ich you should have noticed it.

 

[alterity]

Tank raised clown...
The damsels definitely had ich, the clown maybe had just a very small dot of it, but way less than the damsels had it. It also could have just been sand stuck to him, he was laying on the ground.

 

[Im Lon 2]

Damsels and Clowns are one of the hardiest fish IMO.. Is there something in the rock (like Crabs) that could get them.

How long did you acclimate this fish?

What is the Temp?

 

[Letmegrow]

Fish do not typically die from ich alone.

They die of some other disease or secondary infection brought on by a lowered immune system and stress.

Unless the fish was COVERED with ich, it likely was not the cause of death.

Did the clown fish have all it's fins intact ?

Was there any skin deformations ?
- Lesions
- Skin sloughing off
- Tumors / bumps
- Redness

What is your ALK and SG ?

Was the fish from Kathys Clowns or ORA ?

 

[alterity]

The clown died....

When the damsels died, they were the only thing in the tank. When I put the clown in I also bought a cleaning crew of 8 of the very small crabs (I forgot their name), 1 emerald crab that does seem honory, 3 narscissus snails, and a cleaner shrimp.
All items were acclimated between 15-30 minutes, maybe a little bit longer, when I put the clown in, I opened the bag after 30 minutes and put in a little of the tank water, then waited 5 minutes then put him into the tank. Temp is roughly 79.


All fins were intact. There was NO visible signs of anything else wrong with him. Believe me I spent so much time watching him swim in my tank the days he was alive I would have seen something.

ALK was good, I had it tested and had been using marine buffer everytime I did a water change or added water after evap. SG was in the green on my tester, almost dead center. Believe me, I had done everything I possibly could to ensure what happened to the damsels didn't happen again. I just can't explain it, it seems like after about 4-5 days in the tank fish start dying.

The reason I don't think it's the crab is becuase the clown had the exact same symptoms as the damsels, and there was no crab in with them.

The clown came from Marine Solutions. And by the way they tested my water too before I bought anything and the guy said everything looked great. I just don't want to keep going and buying $25 fish, also I just feel terrible about killing anything when he was doing fine in the tank at the store last weekend.

 

[Letmegrow]

The Specific Gravity should be 1.025,
refractometers tell you to keep it at 1.021 - 1.023, too low for our animals.

We need solid numbers to help you, not generalizations.

I think you may have low flow / low oxygen and they are suffocating. Make sure the surface of your water is being agitated and leave the lid to your tank open for good atmospheric exchange. Add a powerhead if necessary.

Also check your Ammonia, Nitrites, and Nitrates again and give us hard numbers. A little of one or the other is fine, but a little of all three is a deadly combination.

A few pic could help too.

 

[jdieck]

There could have been three posibilities besides sikness that you can explore:
a) System too new, started a minicycle with the added on bio-load and Ammonia spiked
b) Oxygen level dropping too much at night. need to improve aereation and surface agitation
c) Moving the rock released some hydrogen sulphide specially if you have a DSB and the rock was sitting on the sand.

 

[Letmegrow]

C) - is out because I do not think he could build up enough hydrogen sulfide, especially in a 29 biocube.

A) and B) are very very good possibilities.

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9326131#post9326131 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Letmegrow
C) - is out because I do not think he could build up enough hydrogen sulfide, especially in a 29 biocube.

I think Hydrogen Sulfide will be created as soon as your aquarium water is skimmable (Skimmate smell). It is part of the cycle process.

 

[alterity]

SG is 1.025, that is dead center on my meter. I'm checked every other day thsi week and I get 8.2-8.4 on pH, Nitrite 0-0.25, Ammonia 0, Nitrate 5 or less. You guys always have specific numbers but mine I hold up to a color check chart so it looks somewhat between the two. All in all it's the lowest levels on the chart for everything. Also keep in mind all the inverts in the tank are doing FINE. no difference in their behavior.

The pump head gives very strong flow, and it is breaking the water. In fact if I had to say anything I get a lot of bubbles, more than I would like. The box says I get 240g/h of movement. This is a reef designed oceanic system. I have seen a few at every LFS i've been to and everything in those systems always looks fine. I'll try and get some pictures uploaded tomorrow. I need to get my digital camera (it's at my office.)

I use formula one food. (everyone says this is the best and shouldn't put a spike of anything.)
Is it possible that he needed a friend? My mom came over the other night and (running FW tanks for 30 years) seemed to think that since he always seemed to be chasing his reflection in the glass, and since he didn't have any other fish in the tank that he kind of gave up the will to live? Also I looked at his body just now and it does seem like there are some very small white dots on him. Maybe 1/10th the size that was on the damsel that died.

(I REALLY appreciate the help guys, I am so excited about getting into this for the rest of my life. I just want to make sure I don't kill anything else while I'm trying to learn.)

 

[jdieck]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9328633#post9328633 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by alterity
Nitrite 0-0.25

Although Nitrite is not that toxic in salt water this may indicate you had Ammonia within 24 to 48 hours previous to the reading.
I will suggest to leave the tank rest for a couple of weeks before trying again.

 

[alterity]

levels are at 0s today or very close to 0s, but I think that's obvious with the fish being gone. Again everything else in the tank is enjoying things.
(On another note, a friend of mine is selling his 155g that's he's had running for 8 years. He's had someone come in that entire time and take care of it for him so I assume it's in good shape and has good equipment, it has a sump and some other items. What do you think is a ballpark for a good price on it?)