Wild/Maricultured SPS vs Aquacultured SPS

[Alex T.]

With new people coming into the hobby all the time, the lure of a large mature colony is tempting and haphazard. All it takes is deep pockets. I don't think the fact that they're for sale is any indication that reefers have gotten wiser. People still smoke cigarettes too. Even though cancer research is advancing all the time, there is no shortage of doctors treating those that suffer from lung and pancreatic cancer due to smoking.

Golf is a perfect example. Even though technology breakthroughs in club design, golf ball design and instruction have advanced 10 fold in the last 20 years, the average handicap of non-professional golfers has not even risen by a stroke according to Golf Digest. Like anything else where knowledge and skill are key, only a select few with the talent, wisdom and application in perfection of these techniques will see the garnered success we all strive to achieve.

It's the Indian...not the arrow.

 

[LifeAquatic]

I try and avoid maracultured corals because every piece I've aqquired had AEFW. Takes a while to QT the maracultured pieces.

 

[dzhuo]

So you are saying all these people who bought from DD's wild acros are new reefers lured by temptation? And you don't think we have better knowledge and equipement which enable us to grow a wider array of corals compares to 7 years ago?

 

[badmotorfinger7]

Some of my favorite pieces in my old 340 were maricultured pieces, and I had all types on there tons of LE aquacultured stuff wild and maricultured stuff. IMO aquacultured is nice but kinda hyped up, the people who make up the frags sure like selling it though!

 

[Alex T.]

dzhuo, now you're taking things too literally. I thought I made my point clear that depending on new and fancy equipment to get you through will surely result in failure. Like anything else in life...it takes not just knowledge but talent and an ability to accurately apply what one has learned. I do actually believe that many people who buy wild colonies are for the better part newbies looking for an instant reef. How many full blown SPS reefs with knowledgable owners do you really know who would place a wild acro in their tank...even after a proper quarantine? Not many. The risk of RTN stretching through the tank is too severe to be worth the risk.

Might I remind you too that Dan Rigle's December Tank of the Month was not cutting edge technology from what I remember. Old fashioned 20 year old downdraft technology with old fahioned 250 watt Radiums with VHO actinics. Wild colonies are definitely attractive. I don't argue there. If I were starting a new reef and was placing my very first acros then I might try one or two again. But after some years of experience, I would never risk putting them in my established SPS tank. They're a 50/50 crap shoot at best. If someone wants to show pictures of a wild colony tank that's matured with its' original pieces of at least a couple years I'd be more than happy to look through them and change my mind if there were enough evidence to the contrary.

 

[dzhuo]

Alex,
I am not taking your comment too literally. I see your point and I don't think you mean every wild or mariculture corals were bought by newer reefers obviously. The discussion I want to bring up is lots of information, common practices and advices passed down to us were from the time when we know little about the hobby in general combined with equipement that don't allow us with a high margin of error. For example, we weren't even aware of RB, AEFW or monti nudi until recently. Nutrient is another area where we believe SPS can get almost 100% from the light which might not be true. Things have changed a lot in the last 7 years both in terms of knowledge and equipment. I don't mean to imply fancy equipment equals TOTM but it helps all of us (both in terms of convenience and the ability to run our tank with higher margin of error). I don't think anyone will deny that we all become a little better compare to where we were 7 years ago. Does this translate to better success with wild acro? I don't know but it seems like it should.

If someone wants to show pictures of a wild colony tank that's matured with its' original pieces of at least a couple years I'd be more than happy to look through them and change my mind if there were enough evidence to the contrary.

I am not trying to change your mind. You don't have to like wild or mariculture if you don't think they will survive in your tank. You can run your tank with frags which arguably is what most people do anyway. I am certainly not promoting wild or mariculture but I am also not as against them as many are.

 

[Alex T.]

Fair enough.:beer:

 

[SPSEMPIRE]

the average handicap of non-professional golfers has not even risen by a stroke according to Golf Digest.

obviously my golf score these past 10 years has been taken into consideration with this study. :spin2:

 

[coral_killer37]

dzhuo & alexT, both of you represent a good point and position. As far as equipment and technology are concerned, I remember when the 75 watt mh came out in the hobby and yes, people were growing coral, 100 % of which were wild. It was the hot item of the day.I am sure back in the late 90's everyone had red bugs, aefw, and a myriad of pests, and did not even know it. That being said, there were quite a few who were keeping the available species of the time and they were thriving. In my opinion, the only technology that has impressed me in the past 7 years is the low energy technologies. I still like the idea of a down draft and some 400 watt bulbs. As a matter of fact my new tank is about 6 months old, and old habits never die. Other reefers trash was my bargain. I have seen tanks 7 years ago with those two features and a refugium and they had sps growing out of the water. Most of which were stared from wild colonies, that had browned out rtn-ed, were fragged, and somehow, they were successful. The temptation to have a reef tank instantly existed then, and it still does now.

 

[dzhuo]

I am sure back in the late 90's everyone had red bugs, aefw, and a myriad of pests, and did not even know it.

Exactly. Now with our full awareness, we should be able to minimize it. Again, we simply know more that we were 7 years ago.

In my opinion, the only technology that has impressed me in the past 7 years is the low energy technologies.

I can actually think of a few things that have drastically improve our ability to maintain a stable environment even for corals that are hard to keep in the past. None of the followings are really new but they only become mainstream recently:

1. Affordable controllers.
2. Precise and reliable dosing pump.
3. ATO.

Nowadays, most people are able to keep sg, temperature, alk, cal and mg very stable 24x7 with minimal effort. I am hoping in the near future, someone will come up with an affordable solution which allow us to dose (zoo)plankton daily.

 

[MammothReefer]

Not really sure where to start with this but I guess we have to agree to disagree on this one.

Your opinion is well respected from me but can you explain why you would put maricultured and wild acros in the same category?

Pretty much I've found in my experiences Maricultued acros to be no less or more hardy then any wild acropora from Bali, Tonga, Fiji, ect. Based on my experiences meeting the demands of a specific species of acropora has more to do with it survival rate then if it was maricultued or wild. The reason I like maricultured sps over wild (for the most part) is 1) It's better for the hobby from an economical, sustainable, and environmental point of view. 2) You know nobody is going to waste there time maricultured "brown" acros. Chances are if you get something maricultured it's going to be a nice piece. If I were to classify acros into groups not based on species. I would say Aquacultured, "wild/ocean grown" Indonesia, and Australian. I've found for the most part Australian pieces to be much hardier then the indo counter parts.

In terms of AEFWs. I've noticed alot of the issues with AEFWs has to do with A) where you buy your SPS from, and B) what type of SPS you are buying. From what I've noticed you are more likely to find AEFW of a Smooth/deep water piece.. then say a Milli, or a Tenuis.

 

[MammothReefer]

With new people coming into the hobby all the time, the lure of a large mature colony is tempting and haphazard. All it takes is deep pockets. I don't think the fact that they're for sale is any indication that reefers have gotten wiser. People still smoke cigarettes too. Even though cancer research is advancing all the time, there is no shortage of doctors treating those that suffer from lung and pancreatic cancer due to smoking.

Golf is a perfect example. Even though technology breakthroughs in club design, golf ball design and instruction have advanced 10 fold in the last 20 years, the average handicap of non-professional golfers has not even risen by a stroke according to Golf Digest. Like anything else where knowledge and skill are key, only a select few with the talent, wisdom and application in perfection of these techniques will see the garnered success we all strive to achieve.


It's the Indian...not the arrow.

I have to disagree with this again, golf is not a good example in anyway. I can say look at skiing in the last 5 years the change in technology has allowed anybody to ski off piste and deep powder days with reverse camber skis ect ect. Reefing has changed ALOT in the past 10 years, and even more so in the past 20. Internet/forums alone which have allowed hobbyist to communicate so easily and exchange knowledge freely has made a HUGE difference. 10 years ago we all could have been loosing SPS to AEFWs but nobody knew what the heck a AEFW was so we chalked it up to impossible to keep. If you don't believe that reefing has progressed just take a look at the aquaculture industry look at how many people have frags and are able to grow sps now. It's not just the select few anymore. Now if you want to keep a SPS tank there are SO many different approaches. People have a harder time deciding HOW they want to go about setting up an SPS tank, then they do actually keeping SPS these days.. (Solid Carbon, ULNS, Rowa, Ozone, ULNS, fishless, Zeovit, Vodka, VSV, NSW, T5, LED, Halides, Sulfar Denitrators, bare bottom, dsb, or just the "basics", ect ect..) If you think reefing hasn't progressed just look at the people who are now keeping NPS, and Coldwater reefs. We've come a long way since BioBalls, and Gravel filters, if you think otherwise send me your MP40s, or tunzees and I will send you some RIOs.

There is a big difference between a hobby and a sport. Reefing doesn't require any special talent, genetic pre-dissipation, or physical fitness. It just requires diligence, patients, or a willingness to drop lots of $$$. I can golf every day for the rest of my life and never be a pro, but if I spend enough time trolling on forums, reef blogs, or even just do something as simple as join my local reef club, or talk to my LFS (provided you have a decent store in your area). I can easily be on the right path to a successful SPS tank with just a little bit of patients, restraint and dedication.

 

[SPSEMPIRE]

Pretty much I've found in my experiences Maricultued acros to be no less or more hardy then any wild acropora from Bali, Tonga, Fiji, ect.

That's good to know but I have found the complete opposite in my years of experience with wild and maricultured colonies. Although the way they are collected has a lot to do with it, I have had less than a 10% success rate with wild acros. With maricultured acropora colonies, they have had just over an 85% survival rate.

Every situation is different so I understand that you might not have the same results as I mentioned above. You are completely correct about the species. Certain species ship better than others, to go along with the fact that AEFW and red bugs only like soft tissue acros. There are a couple of species that I have had problems with. These are typically acropora caroliania and granulosa.

 

[dvanacker]

The problem of wild vs. maricultured is size and maturity IMO.

Wild acros tend to come in a large size. The larger the size the more stress a coral will go through in shipping generally. Also that wild coral has grown a custom to certain light levels and water motion....making the transition to captive reef all that much harder IMO. SPS will grow to suite their conditions, espcially flow.

 

[iriejp1]

100% Completely disagree. I also disagree w/your AEFW mariculture statement. In my current system I have plenty of maricultured SPS and I have yet to have AEFWS (figures crossed). Over the years I have bought dozens upon dozens, if not 100s of maricultured pieces direct from the wholesalers, very few if any of them ever came in with AEFWS (that I recall), granted I would hand select everything and inspect them. All most all AEFWs I've ever received over the years came from other reefers. (same with red bugs). The only "pest" I consistently have seen from "wild" pieces is Monti Nudis. Have to be really careful with those large encrusting pieces.

Since setting up this new tank the one Piece I received that had AEFWs on it was an aquaculture piece I tossed it out and didn't put it in my tank. It has more to do with where you are getting them from, then what type of piece they are If the shop you buy your stuff from has AEFWs in the tanks.. everything you buy from them will have a good change of having AEFWs. ESPECIALLY if you are buying stuff that has been sitting in a shop for a while.

Completely agree with this one. Haven't bothered to read all pages here...but this is my sentiment exactly.

 

[MammothReefer]

I've found in my current go around the addition of high randomized wide flow as well as non-single point light sources (ie not just halides alone). Appears to negate alot of the issues I had in the past keeping larger wild corals. The other key thing for me is being more selective on a speices level. Large wild desalwii, plana, hyacinthus or any "dense" growth acroporas (outside of efflos/solis). No go. However wild stags, tenuis, or acroporas that grow sparse in nature, these seem to be doing ok for me. Granted I'm am only talking about survivability not colour.

 

[iriejp1]

Yeah...mine have mostly done well. Definitely no more pests than any other source for sure. I've certainly had a few not make it. But neither did that SSC frag that was aquacultured. Seems to be more species based IME.

Now color...thats a different story...lol. :lol: