Does use of ozonizer and UV help keep lthe level of ich, if it is present in system, at bay? My system has a royal gamma that keeps scratching on sand. I suspect that he may have ich. However, he still has a reasonable appetite and none of the other fish have shown the ich. I know, you're probably thinking that the ich will fall off and come back to infect the other fish. However, this has been the status quo for over two months now. My approach has been to leave things be unless they get more serious. in that case, i would remove all the livestock and treat with cupramine. to keep the ich, if present, in check, i'm using garlic extreme, selcon, and trying to keep water quality high with use of uv sterilizer and ozonier. in addition, i'm also using marc weiss' additives.( marc weiss is well known in the industry).
will ich go away untreated?
- Thread starter wakeboarder2342
- Start date
Triggerfish
Active member
greenbean36191 said:
ya got to read up on the stuff bean...not all stages of the lifecycle are invisible to human eye..the parasite feeds off the fish,,as continues to feed and mature it grows becoming a visible area of infection.
wakeboarder2342
Member
i didnt have a refractometer so i ordered one yesterday and paid for 2 day shipping, it should be here tomorrow then i can try again to catch everything and quarantine it.
any other fish catching suggestions are welcomed!!
any other fish catching suggestions are welcomed!!
greenbean36191
Premium Member
A single trophont is about .1 mm in diameter. If you have perfect vision you can see objects down to about .07 mm. Trophonts are pretty darn close to being truly microscopic. You aren't going to see them on your fish if there are just a few of them. Why do you think people have "healthy" fish for months and then without adding anything new, ich suddenly reappears in the tank? Where was it during that time before the outbreak? The parasite can't go dormant for any considerable length of time.
Zoom
Premium Member
My 200G reef tank had ick for almost ten years now .
Every time the fish get excessively stress out the Ick come back very strong.
After my large RBTA spawned in my tank about a month a go the O2 when down to almost nothing after doing 100% water change in a week two fish start to show ick spots just keep in mind this tank had nothing put in there for many years, some of this fish is in this tank more than ten years and still carry the ick parasite.
Now the parasites multiplying every two weeks and i see more and more ick spots on more and more fish i only use garlic soaked foods and keep my water pristine clean.
I had ick outbreak in this tank almost every year and always goes away, May be i'm just been lucky so far .
You think this will stress the fish out ???
Every time the fish get excessively stress out the Ick come back very strong.
After my large RBTA spawned in my tank about a month a go the O2 when down to almost nothing after doing 100% water change in a week two fish start to show ick spots just keep in mind this tank had nothing put in there for many years, some of this fish is in this tank more than ten years and still carry the ick parasite.
Now the parasites multiplying every two weeks and i see more and more ick spots on more and more fish i only use garlic soaked foods and keep my water pristine clean.
I had ick outbreak in this tank almost every year and always goes away, May be i'm just been lucky so far .
You think this will stress the fish out ???
wakeboarder2342
Member
Ok heres the update,
I finally got a refractometer and setup a 30 gallon quarantine. I was able to catch my powder blue and yellow tangs.
I dropped the SG to 1.011 over a period of time. Anyway now 1 day later the powder blues ich has all turned from white to black. has anyone experianced this before? how long does hypo generally take to kill the ich? and what is the ideal SG? ive heard anything from 1.011 to 1.009?
also a side note my refractometer said to calibrate with distilled water, i calibrated with RODI water which i assumed would be as good or better then distilled?
My last questions is, i still have the following fish in the tank, a sailfin tang that shows signs of ich, a goby, a blenny, 3 chromis, and a foxface that all look fine with no spots of ich,
my question is if i do not remove these fish will the ich still be present in the tank? I had a heck of a time catchign the 2 fish i was able to catch, and the smaller ones will be even worse. I would hate to put the fish back in the tank only to have them reinfected.
any info is appreciated
I finally got a refractometer and setup a 30 gallon quarantine. I was able to catch my powder blue and yellow tangs.
I dropped the SG to 1.011 over a period of time. Anyway now 1 day later the powder blues ich has all turned from white to black. has anyone experianced this before? how long does hypo generally take to kill the ich? and what is the ideal SG? ive heard anything from 1.011 to 1.009?
also a side note my refractometer said to calibrate with distilled water, i calibrated with RODI water which i assumed would be as good or better then distilled?
My last questions is, i still have the following fish in the tank, a sailfin tang that shows signs of ich, a goby, a blenny, 3 chromis, and a foxface that all look fine with no spots of ich,
my question is if i do not remove these fish will the ich still be present in the tank? I had a heck of a time catchign the 2 fish i was able to catch, and the smaller ones will be even worse. I would hate to put the fish back in the tank only to have them reinfected.
any info is appreciated
Steven Pro
New member
As far as I know, that statement is completely accurate. In part 2 of my article on ich, I simply relayed that I had used Kick-Ich and it seemed to work when I used it for teice as long as the manufacturer recommends, but that is far from proof that it works. It is simply an anecdotal observation.jamesbburgess said:
Furthermore, since I wrote that article, I have done some experiments on the 'reef-safe' claims of several of these medications. The entire article should be published in Reefkeeping in the following months and I also presented the results in my MACNA presentation this year, but suffice to say Xenia exposed to Rally, made by the same Kick-Ich people, died.
jamesbburgess said:
Hypo doesn't kill the ich on the fish .. it disrupts the ich cycle by preventing ich from hatching and further infecting the fish. The ich on the fish should fall off naturally within a week.
Hyposalinity is generally defined as a salinity between 12-14 which is about 1.009 depending on your tank temperature.
jamesbburgess said:
If one fish has ich it would be prudent to assume that all fish have ich. The only way to insure that your tank is "ich free" is to QT and treat all fish for ich ... then leave the show tank without fish for a sufficient period to allow the ich within the show tank to naturally die off (ich needs a fish to continue its life cycle).... many would suggest leaving the tank fallow for 5-6 weeks.
Heres a link discussing ich ... note the diagram which outlines the ich cycle.
http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html
dntx5b9
New member
Can fish get ich from snails? I added two turbos in my tank (almost three months old) last week and now my fish have ich. I have 2 clowns and a royal gramma. All my fish have been in the tank for over 6 weeks. Can the snails have introduced ich in my tank? Also, what is the difference between FW and SW ich? FW ich is pretty easy to get rid of, but it appears that SW ich is a whole another story...
Steven Pro
New member
It is possible that the cyst stage could have been attached to the shells of your snails or the parasite could have been in one of its free-swimming stages and in the shipping water with the snails or it is possible that they were always there on the fish and simply undetected in low numbers as this infestation geared up.
FW Ich is easy to cure because there is usually nothing else in the tank that is bothered by the medication. Plastic plants and castles could care less about malachite green. But, in many saltwater displays, you have other life (such as shrimp, snails, crabs, etc.) that does not tolerate the medication. SW Ich is easy to cure in proper quarantine tanks that don't have these other life forms.
FW Ich is easy to cure because there is usually nothing else in the tank that is bothered by the medication. Plastic plants and castles could care less about malachite green. But, in many saltwater displays, you have other life (such as shrimp, snails, crabs, etc.) that does not tolerate the medication. SW Ich is easy to cure in proper quarantine tanks that don't have these other life forms.
Kinetic
Active member
There are so many posts, i just decided to post this, sorry if anyone said anything about this already:
Garlic will help fight it. If you soak everything in SeaChem garlic guard etc... it will slowly help fight bacteria. Or if you get food that has garlic already, that will be good too.
You know garlic doesn't realy taste "garlicy" until it is penetrated? It's it's own defense against bacteria. So that garlic taste is actually produced by a chemical reaction when you actually puncture it, either by eating, slicing, etc.
So garlic, in theory, should help fight ich =) It's also known to help prevent cancer in humans, along with cultured foods like kim chee and brocoli sprouts.
Garlic will help fight it. If you soak everything in SeaChem garlic guard etc... it will slowly help fight bacteria. Or if you get food that has garlic already, that will be good too.
You know garlic doesn't realy taste "garlicy" until it is penetrated? It's it's own defense against bacteria. So that garlic taste is actually produced by a chemical reaction when you actually puncture it, either by eating, slicing, etc.
So garlic, in theory, should help fight ich =) It's also known to help prevent cancer in humans, along with cultured foods like kim chee and brocoli sprouts.
Steven Pro
New member
koden,
You might be interested to read this regarding garlic, Garlic: What Has Been Studied Versus What Has Been Claimed
You might be interested to read this regarding garlic, Garlic: What Has Been Studied Versus What Has Been Claimed
mymazda6 said:
Both UV and Ozone will help when the Ich is in the water column. However, neither is effective when it is dormant in the sand or on your fish.
The Idea with either UV or ozone is that neither will rid your tank of the parasite however, they will help to control the amount of parasites and bacterial infections in your tank thus, giving your fish a better chance of survival. With UV, your flow rate has to be slow enough to be effective.
IME, I have witnesed that healthy well fed fish can fight ich to the point where they become immune. I have a gold rim tang, which has the reputation of being an ich magnet. When I first introduced him to my tank, the reputation quickly became a reality. He had bumps under his skin and had visible signs of ich within one week of placing him in my tank. Thankfully, he kept his appetetite and began eating more and more. I watched my tank parameter very closely to make sure that I did what I had to in order to keep the tank clean with the heavy feedings.
Eventually, all visible signs of ich disappered and the glodrim is happy and fat. I was able to decrese feeding with no ill effect. Is the parasite still there? Probably so, but definitely under control.
Rondelet
New member
My apologies for coming into this post late, but there is some very interesting discussion here! I have a question, but first a couple of comments/observationsââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦
I agree with the previous posters that under the right conditions (good water quality, good nutrition, water changes, a couple of cleaner shrimps) your fish can develop immunity to ich and it will "go away". However, I don't think it every really goes away as immune or tolerant fish will act as carriers. Thus, you may not see a single white spot for a long time, perhaps years, but a stressful event could bring on a outbreak seemingly out of nowhere.
I also agree with the previous posters that hyposalinity is effective, but is, IMO, a very risky treatment to manage and will stress the hell out of your invertebrates. Further, even if correctly applied I'm not convinced it's 100% effective. One alternative to consider here is to give your fish a course of metronidazole administered via the feed. Incidentally, the active ingredient in Kick Ich (5-nitroimidazole) is the precursor used to make metronidazole. However, I would not advise using either as treatments that are added to the water as these chemicals have the potential to after bacteria in your biological filter. My personal view on Kick-Ich and other related compounds such as metronidazole, and treatments such as hyposalinity, is that they will weaken the parasite and other factors such has husbandry and fish immunity come into play. However, like all chemicals used to treat infectious diseases it's highly unlikely that it's 100% effective in selectively "eradicating" ich from your system. Also, with any medication and especially antibacterial/antiprotozol you must step up water quality monitoring and be prepared for you filter to crash and your tank to start cycling.
Now for the reason of my postââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦
Question to Greenbean and Stuart: you cited research to effect that without new introductions of the parasite an existing population will weaken and potentially die out. I find this a very interesting observation. Do either of you (or anyone else) have a reference or literature citation you could post. I find it hard to believe that a parasite such as this would attenuate itself in this manner, but then, hey, anything is possible in a closed system.
I agree with the previous posters that under the right conditions (good water quality, good nutrition, water changes, a couple of cleaner shrimps) your fish can develop immunity to ich and it will "go away". However, I don't think it every really goes away as immune or tolerant fish will act as carriers. Thus, you may not see a single white spot for a long time, perhaps years, but a stressful event could bring on a outbreak seemingly out of nowhere.
I also agree with the previous posters that hyposalinity is effective, but is, IMO, a very risky treatment to manage and will stress the hell out of your invertebrates. Further, even if correctly applied I'm not convinced it's 100% effective. One alternative to consider here is to give your fish a course of metronidazole administered via the feed. Incidentally, the active ingredient in Kick Ich (5-nitroimidazole) is the precursor used to make metronidazole. However, I would not advise using either as treatments that are added to the water as these chemicals have the potential to after bacteria in your biological filter. My personal view on Kick-Ich and other related compounds such as metronidazole, and treatments such as hyposalinity, is that they will weaken the parasite and other factors such has husbandry and fish immunity come into play. However, like all chemicals used to treat infectious diseases it's highly unlikely that it's 100% effective in selectively "eradicating" ich from your system. Also, with any medication and especially antibacterial/antiprotozol you must step up water quality monitoring and be prepared for you filter to crash and your tank to start cycling.
Now for the reason of my postââ"šÂ¬Ã‚¦
Question to Greenbean and Stuart: you cited research to effect that without new introductions of the parasite an existing population will weaken and potentially die out. I find this a very interesting observation. Do either of you (or anyone else) have a reference or literature citation you could post. I find it hard to believe that a parasite such as this would attenuate itself in this manner, but then, hey, anything is possible in a closed system.
Steven Pro
New member
I believe that comes from ATJ and his reading of the following paper:Rondelet said:
Burgess P.J. and Matthews R.A. 1994. A standardized method for the in vivo maintenance of Cryptocaryon irritans (Ciliophora) using the grey mullet Chelon labrosus as an experimental host. Journal of Parasitology 80:288-292.
Here is the relavent excerpt from his webpage, http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/marineich.html
"Burgess and Matthews (1994) were attempting to maintain a viable population of C. irritans which could be used in later studies. To maintain the parasite populations, they needed host fish in order for the trophonts to feed and continue the life cycle. Each host fish was only used once in a process of serial transition such that none of the hosts would die or develop an immunity. While the procedure worked very well and enabled them to maintain populations for some time, the viability of the populations decreased with time and none of the 7 isolates they used survived more than 34 cycles, around 10 to 11 months. They suggest this is due to senescence and aging in cell lines is well recognised in Ciliophora.
The presence of aging cell lines in C. irritans suggests that an aquarium that has been running for longer than 12 months without any additions is unlikely to have any surviving "Ich" parasites, yet another exception to "Ich" always being present. "
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