Will the government block our hobby

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I can understand the ban on collecting endangered corals but to require a federal permit & prohibit interstate trade is just absurd.

I do agree with scientists needing to keep their doom & gloom stories in check. Too much pessimism in all of these "theories" and the uneducated masses take it as fact.

Wrap with care, save the polar bear.
 
Big thumbs up! :thumbsup: Most corals listed are easily propagated, the act would put pressure on aquaculture which is only a good thing.
Once a species is listed as endangered, sanctions are levied against anyone who “takes” a specimen. “Taking” is defined as “harassing, harming, pursuing, hunting, shooting, wounding, killing, trapping, capturing, collecting, or any attempt to do these things to a member of the endangered species.” The petitioners believe that they can use the Endangered Species Act to bring legal action against entities emitting CO2 and to force the government to establish marine protected areas.
So idiots that say that they are just after the hobby it's BS.

If listed, the corals would be banned from collection in U.S. waters, banned from import into the United States; interstate shipment would become illegal. Captive propagation would require a federal permit, and corals could only be bought and sold within states. “Effectively, this would end the international trade in stony corals to the United States,” Meyers said in an exclusive interview with CORAL Magazine.
Marshall Meyers is the CEO of the Pet Industry Joint Advisory Council no wonder he doesn't like it.

Per Eric Borneman –
This was not some whacko environmental group trying to shut down the trade. It is based on the previous listing of A palmata and A cerviconis in the ESA and applies to corals that may be most threatened or are already threatened by local or global stresses. Each species will be evaluated – some definitely need listing, some probably not yet. But this was a precautionary measure based on increasing mortality and susceptibility to current conditions that will increase in the future. The original petition was submitted by the Center for Biological Diversity (hardly a radical organization) in October and we discussed it here after Amie posted about it. Lots of petitions get submitted to NOAA, but only those NOAA feels have merit go forward. This is not an impending ban on all corals, and most of the species in question are already available by mariculture and aquaculture. Others were never available (Hawaiian endemics, Caribbeans), and for some – most of those common in the trade – I doubt will get listed because they are still not extremely threatened throughout their range. It also leaves about 600+ other species of stony coral available, even if all went through. Plus soft corals, zoanthids, and corallimorphs.
So, of the 82, a handful might have the potential to get ESA listing that were in trade, and of those most are not easily identifiable to species, and import of scleractinia does not require ID to species but only to genus. Sadly, if there were ESA protection for some of these, they would still be collected and sent and enforcement would probably not be able to tell or even keep up with the volume.
My feeling is this trade takes over 2500 species from coral reefs, and there is an uproar that maybe….maybe….we would lose 20 or 30 from wild collection (but totally available by mariculture/aquaculture).
Is this something the hobby should be fighting so we can keep wild collected specimens in tanks? How does that play into the mission statements of all the forums and clubs who state their dedication to the conservation of coral reefs?
 
From what I gathered they would ban the interstate transport of any of the banned corals whether they were aquacultured or not.
 
The government could care less about our hobby. They are too busy....er, maybe I should keep that to the lounge :twitch:
 
That's what I understood from the article in CORAL magazine as well. :(

"If listed, the corals would be banned from collection in U.S. waters, banned from import into the United States; interstate shipment would become illegal. Captive propagation would require a federal permit, and corals could only be bought and sold within states. "œEffectively, this would end the international trade in stony corals to the United States," Meyers said in an exclusive interview with CORAL Magazine."
 
"coral reefs... may be the first worldwide ecosystem to collapse due to global warming."

That's why we need to save them from the ocean! They have it bass akwards :)
 
First, I would like to find out how to go about getting enough people together to do a counter petition. I am a conservationist, but I am also a hobbyist and a professional in this industry. Instead of a ban do the same as they do for harvesting trees from the forest. require a harvest on plant two approach. The people harvesting the coral do not wish to lose their livelihood. So efforts should be made for advanced propagation and redistribution of corals to natural habitats. Most of the corals on the list to most Customs officers are indistinguishable. No offense to our government officials. So this would increase the price of coral across the board. These types of petitions for the greater good is progressivism up to its worst. It is a means of control. I would only agree to such petitions if the claims where scientifically validated and confirmed. Put a reduction on the cites for the amount that may be imported, then access the population. As an aside, Global warming is an unproven theory that is seated in lies and fraud. It pains me as a scientist that they would manipulate there data to the point of pure fabrication just to continue to receive a federal check. If I were to pull something like that I would probably be sent to jail for coning the Federal government. The data point to a more natural cycle, in which the reefs may diminish but will ultimately rebound as they have for millions of years. Genesis, Evolution, Extinction are all apart of this world and we are not separate from it. Sorry Global Warming gets me a little touchy.

Aside from that, Instead of just discussing the ban let see if we can slow them down and try to get a better perspective before jumping to kill jobs in this economy.
 
Today 06:39 AM
Antonais1391 seems like the hobby helps propogation of the corals. and also most reef keepers are conservation minded.




Ive only been around for a couple year's now, But it would seem to me like this was not always the case, and some major advances have been made in the last decade, which could still take year's to turn around.

Also keep in mind your surrounded by reef keeper's that actually care for the most part. I would imagine a good majority will never set foot on one of these forums.
 
First, I would like to find out how to go about getting enough people together to do a counter petition. I am a conservationist, but I am also a hobbyist and a professional in this industry. Instead of a ban do the same as they do for harvesting trees from the forest. require a harvest on plant two approach. The people harvesting the coral do not wish to lose their livelihood. So efforts should be made for advanced propagation and redistribution of corals to natural habitats. Most of the corals on the list to most Customs officers are indistinguishable. No offense to our government officials. So this would increase the price of coral across the board. These types of petitions for the greater good is progressivism up to its worst. It is a means of control. I would only agree to such petitions if the claims where scientifically validated and confirmed. Put a reduction on the cites for the amount that may be imported, then access the population. As an aside, Global warming is an unproven theory that is seated in lies and fraud. It pains me as a scientist that they would manipulate there data to the point of pure fabrication just to continue to receive a federal check. If I were to pull something like that I would probably be sent to jail for coning the Federal government. The data point to a more natural cycle, in which the reefs may diminish but will ultimately rebound as they have for millions of years. Genesis, Evolution, Extinction are all apart of this world and we are not separate from it. Sorry Global Warming gets me a little touchy.

Aside from that, Instead of just discussing the ban let see if we can slow them down and try to get a better perspective before jumping to kill jobs in this economy.

Professional in the industry of what?

Conservationist? :eek1: A conservationist who wants to get a counter petition going based on ZERO science?! :eek2: Just like Utah recentley voted that global warming isnt a threat to humans. A vote! No science, just opinion, that's been influenced by 'big business'. They sure are some clever people in Utah huh:crazy1:. Personally I dont think you are a conservationist at all. And a scientist you say? You cant even spell "their" properley? You just bleet on the usual tripe that's coming from over the pond. "progressivisms", "no restrictions on environmental damage please", "leave our economy alone", "global warming is a hoax" .
Misinformed people like you are your own worst enemy. :wildone:

I see you mention genesis next to evolution. How does that work then? Did god create the world in 12 days or didnt he?
 
Rossini, you sabotage your attempt at being clever when you resort to cheap xenophobic generalities like "the usual tripe that's coming over the pond". I think a great deal of simplistic idiocy is generated on both sides of the Atlantic, as well as across the Pacific and all points intermediate. You should note that the word "genesis" has a more general meaning than the identification of the first book of the Bible. In fact, the genesis of the Biblical name can be found in the Greek root for 'birth', and is in many contexts merely a synonym for 'origin'. Your Biblical interpretation suggests an unsupported inclination to link Aquatope's opinions with some kind of stereotypical fundamentalist mentality. I may not agree with Aquatope's position, but citing meaningless misspellings hath a petty smack, and expanding what was written by Aquatope into a list of presumptive opinions presented by you as spurious quotations indicates that there is more heat than light between your ears.
 
You need to better understand the Endangered Species Act to get an idea of what is going on here. In short, any group can petition the government to put a species on the ES list. The government has a period of time to respond and a process takes place if there is sufficient evidince to move forward. Eventually, there is a part in the process for public comment, which is when our hobby representatives and those representing the businesses will do their best to argue that they dont belong on the ESA list. I would be very surprised if this even made it to the public comment part in the process. The burden of proof is on the petitioner, not the government. In the end this will turn out just like the invasive species bill a few months ago, it will go no where.

This is not to say that I dont believe that corals need to be protected, but I believe that an all out ban of import and trade is not the answer to the question of protection.
 
Professional in the industry of what?

Conservationist? :eek1: A conservationist who wants to get a counter petition going based on ZERO science?! :eek2: Just like Utah recentley voted that global warming isnt a threat to humans. A vote! No science, just opinion, that's been influenced by 'big business'. They sure are some clever people in Utah huh:crazy1:. Personally I dont think you are a conservationist at all. And a scientist you say? You cant even spell "their" properley? You just bleet on the usual tripe that's coming from over the pond. "progressivisms", "no restrictions on environmental damage please", "leave our economy alone", "global warming is a hoax" .
Misinformed people like you are your own worst enemy. :wildone:

I see you mention genesis next to evolution. How does that work then? Did god create the world in 12 days or didnt he?


Political commentary removed and your posting privileges will be suspended if you take this further.
 
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I see you mention genesis next to evolution. How does that work then? Did god create the world in 12 days or didnt he?

Not to get political or religous, but you obviously have little knowledge about the different views on creation in Christianity. It's really sad that you have such a limited idea of what others think. I'm unsure if you are just trolling for an argument, but your ideas are based off of stereotypes and the ideas of a select vocal few in the minority.

Back on topic, you dont need to make a "counter petition", as I already posted, a petition is an actual part of the ESA; not just a paper with a bunch of signatures. The wording should not be taken litteraly, rather, it is simply the word that is used to describe the first step in the process.
 
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