Worming

[luvabunny]

I am going to give the so called tank raised kelloggi a try. Not new to seahorse keeping, and have thought this thru, but I need some advice on worming.

I have never felt the need to worm a fish before. What worms do you treat it for exactly? What is the wormer of choice, how do you use it, and where do you find it? I understand that some wormers only paralyze the worm and not kill it. What good is that?

Please, I know about the track record of these kelloggi's - I know there are captive raised seahorses available - I know the hazards of purchasing "tank/pen/net raised - I just need some guidance on worming.

These ponies will not be mixed with other species - they have their own tank.

 

[Peka]

I'm very curious... why are you taking on this challenge? Just looking for your thoughts. Is it price? the species? etc.....


Ray was kind enough to post this in another thread so I didn't really have to search for it.. thanks Ray....

Instructions for deworming as posted on seahorse.org

FENBENDAZOLE (liquid) Dosage and Preparation Instructions for Deworming
Active Ingredient: 10% Fenbendazole
Indication: worms and other internal parasites
Brand Names: Panacur, Safe-Guard
One day each week, feed two meals of adult brine shrimp gut-loaded with Fenbendazole to the Seahorse. Repeat for a total of 3 weeks.
"¢ Add ~250mg (2ml or ~1/2 tsp) of the Fenbendazole mixture to one gallon (~4 liters) of water and mix thoroughly.
"¢ Place the amount of adult brine shrimp needed for one feeding into the mixture. Leave them in the mixture for at least 2hrs.
"¢ Remove the adult brine shrimp from the mixture and add them to the quarantine tank.
"¢ Observe the Seahorse to be certain it is eating the adult brine shrimp.

METRONIDAZOLE Dosage and Preparation Instructions for Deworming
Active Ingredient: Metronidalzole
Indication: flagellates and other internal parasites
Brand Names: Metro+, Metro-Pro, Metronidazole, Metro-MS, Flagyl
One day each week, feed two meals of adult brine shrimp gut-loaded with Metronidazole to the Seahorse. Repeat for a total of 3 weeks.
"¢ If using tablets, crush one tablet into a fine powder. If using powder, dose 1/4tsp.
"¢ Add the Metronidazole to one gallon (~4 liters) of water and mix thoroughly.
"¢ Place the amount of adult brine shrimp needed for one feeding into the mixture. Leave them in the mixture for at least 2hrs.
"¢ Remove the adult brine shrimp from the mixture and add them to the quarantine tank.
"¢ Observe the Seahorse to be certain it is eating the adult brine shrimp.

PRAZIQUANTEL Dosage and Preparation Instructions for Deworming
Active Ingredient: Praziquantel
Indication: worms and other internal parasites
Brand Names: PraziPro, Praz-Tastic, Praziquantel
One day each week, feed two meals of adult brine shrimp gut-loaded with Praziquantel to the Seahorse. Repeat for a total of 3 weeks.
"¢ Add 10ml (~2tsp) of Praziquantel to one gallon (~4 liters) of water and mix thoroughly.
"¢ Place the amount of adult brine shrimp needed for one feeding into the mixture. Leave them in the mixture for at least 2hrs.
"¢ Remove the adult brine shrimp from the mixture and add them to the quarantine tank.
"¢ Observe the Seahorse to be certain it is eating the adult brine shrimp.

 

[luvabunny]

Thank you Beth - I did search back several pages and could not find this information. I knew it was there, and I knew Rayjay had accumulated it, I just couldn't find it.

My questions are - do each of these 3 treatments treat for different worms, and should all 3 of them be used? All basically say for the treatment of worms and internal parasites. It was my understanding that Praziquantel was the current wormer of choice. Is this correct? Also, it states to continue treatment for 3 weeks. Am I to take this to mean that nothing should be fed except live adult brine shrimp for 3 weeks?

As far as the why's, there are several reasons. When I first got into seahorse keeping many years ago, before CITES, all that was available were WC. These were very colorful, very active ponies with huge personalities. Some were able to be trained to frozen, some remained on live ghost shrimp their entire lives. I kept several different species in a single tank, had lots of babies I couldn't raise and even some cross breeding. I kept them for several years and was very attached to them. Many would eat out of my hand. I unfortunately lost all of them due to a failed feeding attempt during a vacation, the last I have ever taken.

Within the past year, I purchased 5 of these Vietnamese ponies from an LFS. All ate frozen well and seemed healthy and happy. Two turned beautiful shades of yellow, two remained black, and 1 turned pink. I have seen several pics recently of these Vietnamese ponies also turning beautiful colors. Unfortunately, during mid summer last year, my A/C went out causing the temp in my tank to rise above 80 for 2 days, which brought on a case of vibrio in my youngest. Again, I lost all 5.

The tank currently set up for them is new from the ground up - new sand, new rocks, etc. Nothing in it came from the previous tank which contained the vibrio bacteria.

On a monetary note, yes, I can get these horses very inexpensively, and can have them shipped directly to my door, without having layovers and being acclimated 2 or 3 times to LFS and holding tanks. As I am purchasing them from a supplier, it will not be seen as LFS sales, so more will not be re-ordered to re-supply the LFS, where they will surely die. (For a fact, these exact ponies ARE still being carried in one of my LFS and I refuse to buy from them for that specific reason.)

Also, it appears the "Vietnamese kelloggi" is a catch all species, as many of these are now being identified as kuda, erectus, reidi, and even comes in one instance. I would be happy with any of the above. I believe my previous 5 were kuda and reidi.

As much as I am against taking seahorses from wild stock, I don't consider that purchasing these will be depleting the wild horses in the oceans. Even tho they are likely net raised in the ocean, they are destined for Asian medicines if they are not sold to the aquarium trade. In my mind, it is somewhat similar to buying the prettiest 10 cent goldfish and putting them in your pond or aquarium. They were destined to die as feeders, so why not give them a chance to live a long and full life, and enjoy them while they do so?

I am not against CB horses by any means, but I am also not against ponies that have been raised in the ocean, as long as they are not true WC. My belief is that anything that doesn't kill us just makes us stronger. If I can get TR ponies that have been exposed to some things and lived, in my mind, that just makes them stronger. I also like having a few other fish in the tank with the ponies, pipes especially, which are all WC. If I can increase the chances of survival between the fish, then I see no reason not to do it.

So, as I said, I have thought on this long and hard, and feel that I have the experience to give it another try. Barring freak accidents like tank crashes and A/C problems, I believe I have the knowledge to be successful at it. Would I tell a novice, or inexperienced seahorse keeper to try it? Absolutely not. I am doing my best to be fully prepared before the seahorses arrive - having the wormer on hand, having live foods available as a just in case, having a fully cycled, fully prep'd tank ready for them. If they die, well, they are fish and fish do die on occasion. As long as they are not true WC, I guess they are no worse off than being ground up into seahorse dust to be used as an aphrodesiac or curing warts or something.

 

[wdt2000]

I think Panacur is a strong catch all if used in a hospital tank.

If your dosing straight into a tank with sand/rocks I would use Prazi-Pro and avoid panacur.

 

[luvabunny]

I would prefer to be able to put the seahorses directly into the DT upon their arrival, I was thinking tho, that I may have to keep them in a somewhat smaller tank for the time being, until I find out how large they are and how well they are actually eating.

I would hate to have 2" ponies arrive, only to be lost in the vast expanses of a 55g tank.

Why is Panacur bad for the DT?

 

[rayjay]

I personally would never medicate for worms in a DT, and only use the hospital tank for it. That goes for any meds, even if they are claimed to be safe for the tank biofilter.

 

[luvabunny]

Actually no, I wasn't planning on dosing the DT. My thought was to drain a gal or two out, remove the ponies and feed them, place them back into the DT when they are done, and add new SW back to the DT as needed. I never dose the DT for anything.
Now, if they come in too small to go into the DT, they will stay in a bare 29g for a bit and I will feed them their medicate brine shrimp there.

I would still like to know the differences in the medications, what exactly they are treating for, and if I should pick one, or two, or all three?
Also, is there a preferred online dealer for these items?

 

[rayjay]

The way I understood it from reading on seahorse.org years ago, was that one drug doesn't kill off all the potential parasites, internal and external that may exist on wild caught or tank/pen raised seahorses.
I believe that Dan has the meds available on his seahorsesource.com website.
For me it is advantageous to use a separate tank for doing meds of any kind as mine is bare bottom with only hitches and an air line in it. This way, you can be sure to know if the seahorses are eating as intended, or just some of them, and, you can see their excrement for signs of problems, all before they go into the DT and pollute the DT with their pathogens.

 

[wdt2000]

Also, is there a preferred online dealer for these items?

Panacur is a dog/cat dewormer that most pet stores carry.

I like Prazi-Pro because it is some what invert safe and works well.

Could not hurt asking about the overlap or lack of the dewormers at
http://forum.marinedepot.com/Forum10-1.aspx

 

[Peka]

I would not treat in DT either....

 

[luvabunny]

Thank you all for your help. Now I at least have some names of wormers to go on. I will do my research and continue from there.
Rest assured, I will not be dosing anything to the DT. Never have, never will.
When I get them, I will be sure to post and let everyone know how they are doing.

I have attached a couple of pics of the previous 5 horses that were sold as Vietnamese kelloggi. It is my hope that the new arrivals will be just as pretty.

 

[CCall]

For deworming you all of the meds above. Pick one and start it then move on to the next one after that one.

 

[wdt2000]

Might be a good idea to give them a freshwater dip before adding them to the hospital tank. If I recall correctly from my reading on the seahorse.org

Please post pics of your new horses, it should be interesting to see what you get. All the ones I ordered ended up being black kuda type seahorse.

Slightly off topic do you guys QT your clean up crew?