Your Electrician Here

[Screener]

They have no jurisdiction over end user devices, thus the section can really only be applied at the time of construction, and to hard wired equipment

Practically, this is correct. But in the case of a fire started in the fish room will the adjuster cough at the non in-use protected GFCI outlets?

 

[Screener]

They have no jurisdiction over end user devices, thus the section can really only be applied at the time of construction, and to hard wired equipment

Practically, this is correct. But in the case of a fire started somewhere in the fish room will the adjuster cough at the non in-use protected GFCI outlets?

 

[jkienzpac]

thanks guys,

Since I'm going to have a dedicated circuit for my return pump and want to have the switch protected as well, would a gfci breaker be more reliable than a gfci receptacle or a blank face gfci. My only thought was I didn't want to run out to breaker box if gfci trips, but if more reliable I would consider running a gfci breaker switch.

Bean,

The return pump will have its own dedicated circuit, nothing else on it. The other circuits will have several gfci receptacles on them.

I have to add a sub-panel anyway, so I plan to have several circuits going to the tank.

Therefore, in this scenario, is a breaker gfci any better, more reliable than a receptacle or blank face gfci?

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[BeanAnimal]

Practically, this is correct. But in the case of a fire started in the fish room will the adjuster cough at the non in-use protected GFCI outlets?

The adjuster can complain but end user equipment is not the jurisdiction of the NEC. The jurisdiction of UL is also questionable, though many would argue otherwise.

Think about it another way: The adjuster may cough at the entire fishroom if it is not listed on the policy. The same goes for lack of engineering plans and permits related to the "fishroom". No reasonable person pulls a building permit to put in a fish tank. "Doing the right thing" and asking your local AHJ and govt for advice will end up leaving you mired in permits, engineering plans, inspection fees, hazardous waste and disposal permits, wild life permits,etc. This is not a tongue in cheek joke...

 

[jkienzpac]

Bean,

The return pump will have its own dedicated circuit, nothing else on it. The other circuits will have several gfci receptacles on them.

I have to add a sub-panel anyway, so I plan to have several circuits going to the tank.

Therefore, in this scenario, is a breaker gfci any better, more reliable than a receptacle or blank face gfci?

Thanks,

Jeff

Anyone?

 

[BeanAnimal]

Already answered several posts back:

Then all your "eggs" are in one basket. Any single faulting device (or a nusiance trip) will bring down the whole tank. It is a much better idea to protect devices singly or in groups by using multiple GFCIs.

 

[jkienzpac]

I'll try to explain better, I'm only referring to using a single line from my circuit breaker to my return pump. There will be additional lines running to the tank, these lines will have multiple gfci receptacles connected to them.


Therefore I'm only inquiring about the single line running the return pump. Nothing else will be on this line So if it trips nothing else will go down.

I'm just trying to figure out if in general if gfci circuit breakers placed in the electric panel more reliable than gfci receptacles.

Thanks

 

[jkienzpac]

I'll try to explain better, I'm only referring to using a single line from my circuit breaker to my return pump. There will be additional lines running to the tank, these lines will have multiple gfci receptacles connected to them.


Therefore I'm only inquiring about the single line running the return pump. Nothing else will be on this line So if it trips nothing else will go down.

I'm just trying to figure out if in general if gfci circuit breakers placed in the electric panel more reliable than gfci receptacles.

Thanks

 

[jkienzpac]

Sorry for double post, I'm trying do do this on my phone.

 

[uncleof6]

I would say about 6 one way half a dozen the other. I have replaced more GFCI outlets, than breakers, but that is probably a numbers thing, since more GFCI receptacles in general use, than the breakers. IMO, the breakers have an edge.

Breaker would be best if you would not be able to reach the GFCI receptacle to reset it, in the event of a trip. Otherwise, you are just as well off, and dollars ahead with a GFCI outlet.

 

[BeanAnimal]

And to repeat... I can't think of any reason to put the return pump on its own brannch circuit. Even a LARGE return pump is only a few hundred watts.... I have NEVER had an electric motor fail and trip a breaker, though I have seen many fail and burn with the breaker still happily feeding them.

 

[jkienzpac]

I would say about 6 one way half a dozen the other. I have replaced more GFCI outlets, than breakers, but that is probably a numbers thing, since more GFCI receptacles in general use, than the breakers. IMO, the breakers have an edge.

Breaker would be best if you would not be able to reach the GFCI receptacle to reset it, in the event of a trip. Otherwise, you are just as well off, and dollars ahead with a GFCI outlet.

thanks, that's all I was wondering.

 

[jkienzpac]

And to repeat... I can't think of any reason to put the return pump on its own brannch circuit. Even a LARGE return pump is only a few hundred watts.... I have NEVER had an electric motor fail and trip a breaker, though I have seen many fail and burn with the breaker still happily feeding them.

Thanks for advice,

I just figured as I have to run lines to the tank, I might as well have a dedicated line for the main pump, even if its overkill.

 

[James77]

Scenario 1. Hot line to water via submerged equipment. This is when a submerged piece of equipment like a powerhead, heater or UV lamp fails and the hot line of the power supply gets in contact with the water:

a) No GFCI and No Ground Probe.
Fish has no problem because they are in a situation similar to a bird standing on a power line. This is a VERY DANGEROUS situation for the aquarist because as soon as you touch the water you get electrocuted as you become the path of current to ground. Breaker does not trip as there is not enough time for it to act or enough current to create enough heat. (They are slow trippers)

Just out of curiousity, does my underlined and colored text above apply if the aquarist is not grounded? Sya the above scenario were to happen if I was standing on a dry rug on a wooden floor, would electrocution still potentially happen? . I have always been under the impression that the aquarist would also become the "bird on the wire" in the case there was no ground.....




Voltage potential.....

While knowledgeable people are here, can this term be explained? It is wat I was told I felt when I reached my hand into a sump on a wet floor in a basement, but had no GFI trip. Through process of elimination, the cause ccame down to a Reeflo external pump. This was a tingling felt in small cuts on my fingertips....

 

[uncleof6]

Just out of curiousity, does my underlined and colored text above apply if the aquarist is not grounded? Sya the above scenario were to happen if I was standing on a dry rug on a wooden floor, would electrocution still potentially happen? . I have always been under the impression that the aquarist would also become the "bird on the wire" in the case there was no ground.....

The "bird on a wire" scenario, is used in reference to a conductor with current flowing. The bird on the wire is not completely immune to the current flow however, as the bird on the wire is a parallel current path, between his left foot, through the body, and out his right foot--or vice versa. The resistance is rather high, so the current flow is low, but still present.

In your underlined scenario, I would say no, it would not electrocute you. Since it is unlikely that current would be flowing through the tank to some other point, and would merely present a "potential." If current were flowing in the tank, it would still not electrocute you, merely by placing one hand in the tank--two hands in the tank would make you the "bird on the wire," because the conductivity of the salt water is far greater than that of the human body. Where it less, you would be the wire, with a bird on it.

However in this scenario, placing a hand in the tank, and contacting a "ground," would be a very shocking experience. To be electrocuted, (which means killed) the current has to cross your heart.




Voltage potential.....

While knowledgeable people are here, can this term be explained? It is wat I was told I felt when I reached my hand into a sump on a wet floor in a basement, but had no GFI trip. Through process of elimination, the cause ccame down to a Reeflo external pump. This was a tingling felt in small cuts on my fingertips....

Electrically speaking, voltage and potential are the same thing. The difference however is the usage. Voltage referring to doing work with value for calculations (ohms law) and potential being the "ability" to do work, or relating one reference to another.

Simply put, if there is a difference in potentials ("potential") it is measurable in the unit Volts, and if the two are connected, you can be certain current will flow, if the resistance of the connection is anything less than infinity.

 

[James77]

Thanks for the response, the bird on the wire talk is easy for me to grasp. I've had the pleasure of being shocked several times in my life, all from stupid things of course . I've also had what I consider dangerous shocks...two of them, I've been alot smarter since then , thankfully it was not electrocution.
You can never be too careful or have enough respect for electricity.


Now....

Electrically speaking, voltage and potential are the same thing. The difference however is the usage. Voltage referring to doing work with value for calculations (ohms law) and potential being the "ability" to do work, or relating one reference to another.
Simply put, if there is a difference in potentials ("potential") it is measurable in the unit Volts, and if the two are connected, you can be certain current will flow, if the resistance of the connection is anything less than infinity.

I'm not really getting this....

So the tingling I was feeling is just the ability for current? Was the tingling i was feeling dangerous, or a sign/symptom of something wrong? Or is it just to be expected?

Why is the pump imparting that to the water?

 

[dirtefish]

Just found this thread and thought I would toss a question out there I have had little luck researching.
Basic question: Is an electric power compact ballast specific to pc lighting or can it be used for t5s assuming the caps are switched out.

Details:
Original lighting that came with a tank I purchased a while back was 2 ballasts each running 65w PC bulbs x2. The two ballasts are not the same, one is from a company that dissolved and no tech data available. Second is a very solid looking black box with no emblems or info on it what so ever. Im assuming they are not magnetic there is no hum, no flicker.
These things have been sitting in a box in the basement for months. Im in process of setting up a 40b in the basement as a frag grow out tank. I have a nice 250w halide pendant, and was hoping to cheaply add some supplemental lighting using some of my old gear. I hate the look and effectiveness of pc, hence wanting to switch it over to t5 if possible.
Have found no info on this subject and what makes it even harder is not a clue on specs for the ballast aside from what was evident, they both ran two 65w pc bulbs. The bulbs were up and running on that tank everything worked great I just switched to leds.

If anyone could shed some light on this for me it would be much appreciated.
I would offer pics of the ballast if needed, but they have zero info left on them. No tech data is readable at all.

 

[dirtefish]

While digging through the ballast lighting box also found a few other old ballasts so 3 out of the 4 ballasts are marked for custom sea life. Found models numbers on two of them. 54003 which is the 96x2 ballast. Still no model number on the other random one. And since they are long gone no wiring diagrams or specs.

Cheers to anyone who can answer the previous posted questions. Thanks again when it comes to electrical if its not plug and play Im very inexperienced.

 

[dirtefish]

While digging through the ballast lighting box also found a few other old ballasts so 3 out of the 4 ballasts are marked for custom sea life. Found models numbers on two of them. 54003 which is the 96x2 ballast. Still no model number on the other random one. And since they are long gone no wiring diagrams or specs.

Cheers to anyone who can answer the previous posted questions. Thanks again when it comes to electrical if its not plug and play Im very inexperienced.

 

[TheFishTeen]

I am a total newbie - the most I've done in terms of electrician work is crawl under the house with a voltage meter and find out why the recess cans in the basement wouldn't power up.

Recently our basement was remodeled so I had the electrician install a few new outlets in the basement utility room, to be a fish room.

I want to put all the new outlets on switches, like light switches, so I don't have to unplug things like the pump, i can just flip a switch.

How would I do this?