Your Opinions On Vodka Dosing A 20 Gallon Long

Krenshaw22

Member
Hey guys I've been thinking and should I start dosing vodka to get my nutriants at zero in the mail is my 6 bulb t-5 I'm thinking of adding mire sps that's why I'm trying to lower the nutrients and my skimmer is a hob aquamaxx rated for up to 75 gallons.

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Vodka dosing is very effective for removing nutrients when used correctly. Give us some more information about your experience, tank, and parameters.
 
If ur gunna carbon dose, dose vinegar. Vinegar is easier on ur system, and harder to screw up. I was getting bad cyano from vodka, started dosing vinegar and it all went away. Also I'm not familiar with ur skimmer, but u need a good skimmer if ur carbon dosing.


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Vodka dosing is very effective for removing nutrients when used correctly. Give us some more information about your experience, tank, and parameters.

Over 3 years reef experience, for the tank its a mixed reef of lps, sps, and one colony of zoas. Has about 35 lbs of live rock. Has a koralia paowerhead and a very strong maxijet power head that I can only turn on for a few hours at a time. The protein skimmer has gotten nothing but good reviews on here its not one of the cheaper ones. Its not extremely overpopulated has a pair of percs, and a watchman goby and tiger pistol pair. For parameters I haven't checked but give me a minute and I will post.

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If ur gunna carbon dose, dose vinegar. Vinegar is easier on ur system, and harder to screw up. I was getting bad cyano from vodka, started dosing vinegar and it all went away. Also I'm not familiar with ur skimmer, but u need a good skimmer if ur carbon dosing.


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Wouldn't vinegar affect my ph more since my aquariums water volume is a lot less.

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Vinegar and vodka are essentially the same but vodka is more "potent". Think of vinegar as watered down vodka. It's safer to dose vinegar for that reason. A miscalculation with vodka could spell disaster.

I've been dosing vodka for a while after battling dino. Within 3 weeks, my dino was wiped out. I dose 1.5mL of vodka per day manually. 0.7 in the morning and 0.8 in the afternoon. I haven't had a single outbreak of any nuisance algae since. I'm a big advocate for carbon dosing with the experience I've had.
 
It also just API Test Kits so they aren't the best.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php

The link is the guide I'm using for my setup and this dosing chart from photobucket.

VodkaDosingChart.jpg

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My daughter uses 2 ml a day of Red Sea NO-POx on her 38 gallon Nuvo which is pristine clean and growing beautiful SPS and LPS. Vodka works, but NO-POx is designed with reefs in mind and takes the guess work out of the equation.

Just a thought . . .


Joe :beer:
 
Carbon dosing is effective for reducing nitrates but you don't have any. Your problem is elevated phosphate levels. Use GFO instead. I'm no expert in chemistry but I do recommend you research the relationship between Carbon, Nitrates and Phosphates. I believe (and somebody more advanced should chime in here) that the bacteria that reduce nitrates and phosphates need C, N and P to do their thing (eating or processing C N and P). They can't process P without N. They can't process N or P without C. They need all three. If you dose vodka (my personal choice), have a clear goal in mind with what you wish to accomplish. The bacteria that eat C, N and P need something like 16 molecules of nitrates to reduce 1 phosphate phosphate molecule. (Again, somebody more advanced should chime in here to provide a more complete analysis, but I'm quite sure that you can't reduce Phosphates if your Nitrates are at 0.

Instead, your problem is much easier (I think) to solve: you need to either (1) use GFO to gradually reduce phosphates; or (2) use small water changes to reduce phosphates gradually. In either case you should be careful not to reduce P too quickly. Dosing vodka will not benefit you in any way. Hope this helps.
 
The ratio of P to N mentioned above is an average for the ocean worldwide, but no scientific research of which I am aware has shown that it must be so in our closed environments. Also, some areas of the ocean have been shown to have ratios vastly different from the 16:1 both on the low side and the high side, and although we know that there are bacteria that eat phosphate that live in our tanks, no one has done any research on how to increase the growth of those bacteria whilst maintaining a stable population of nitrate eating bacteria,

however,

in my own experience and in the experience of other reefers with whom I am friends, we found that when dosing carbon, whether vodka, vinegar, or an off the shelf product, nitrates fell rapidly and first, but over time phosphate went down as well just much more slowly,

so,

I'm uncertain of the science behind the mechanism, but it would appear that actual reef hobbyist experience indicates that carbon dosing done regularly and methodically CAN reduce phosphates over time,

but,

this is only a hypothesis and seems counter intuitive to the science behind carbon dosing except that I would emphasize again that we know very little about what happens to the relationship between bacterial populations in the anaerobic regions of our tanks when we feed them carbon. It is possible that the reduction in phosphate that I and others experienced while dosing carbon was a result of other aspects of our husbandry and not actually a result of the dosing.
 
this is only a hypothesis and seems counter intuitive to the science behind carbon dosing

I don't see it as counterintuitive - I mean what do happy and well fed bacteria do? They multiply and all those new cells need phosphate. For me it would be more counterintuitive if the bacteria would not multiply in such a situation.
 
Thanks for chipping in guys. I would suggest that (in a chemistry layman's terms) the principle behind carbon dosing is that the bacteria which eat C, N and P in aquaria are carbon-limited; thus, we have to add vodka or vinegar (C) in order to allow the bacteria to reduce N and P levels. But if there is no N, then the bacteria are N-limited, and cannot reduce either P or C. This might allow the excess C to go to cyano or who knows what.

I do think that hobbyists' experiences in dosing carbon helps reduce P, but I also think it's just easier and way less risky to use GFO for reducing P. It's a gimme-putt, no need to use methods susceptible to user-error
 
I'll give gfo a try and if it doesn't work I'll give the vodka or vineager a try.

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Vinegar and or vodka are fine choices for dosing organic carbon. Ethanol (vokda) oxidizes to acetic acid( vinegar ) which moves on to acetate.

There are some differences:

Vinegar is more dilute 95% water and 5% acetic acid . This standard white vinegar has a pH low enough to prevent bacteria from consuming it before it's dosed. 80 proof vodka is 60% water and 40% ethanol; the alchol content keeps the bactria from growing. In terms of carbon content 80 proof vofka is 8xs stronger than vinegar because there is less water in it. The extra volume for vinegar may be important to some for auto dosing setups for smaller tanks.

Both vinegar an vodka drop pH from bacterial activity and CO2 production. However, vinegar does this precipitously when it's dosed. Vodka does it slowly. When dosing vinegar the dose should be spread out over a long period of time during photosynthesis to offset the CO2 the acetic acid releases . Vodka can be doed all at once without a precipitous pH drop.



The extra volume may be helpful when dosing via an automated system. On the other hand bolus dosing is convenient for my routine. FWIW,
I've been dosing both about 70% vodka and 30% vinegar for over 5 years with good results.

Phosphate drops first in my experience contrary to that of others noted. It's quite logical for it to do so.

The heterotrophic facultative bacteria that consume the organic carbon assimilate dissolved nitrogen and phosphate as they grow . These 3 nutrients are then removed as the bacteria are skimmed out. Since these bacteria are facultative, they grow aerobically. Then when oxygen is used up they function anaerobically going after nitrate for the oxygen leaving just N ;some of which binds with other N molecules to form N2 nitrogen gas which bubbles out of the tank reducing nitrate even further than the reduction due to nitrogen uptake from assimilation.

The ratio of 116 C: 16 N: 1 P allude to earlier is known a the Redfield ratio. It is an enmasse measure for phytoplankton in the sea. Specific organisms vary to some degree in terms of these proportions;some significantly.. Even if they didn't organic carbon dosing would ultimately reduce nitrate more than the proportion to phosphate in the ratio because the anaerobic reduction occurs in addition to the assimilation providing an extra exit for nitrate ; there is no such additional reduction for phosphate. Over time some find it necessary to use gfo or other removers to deal with low range phosphate ; some dose nitrate to enhance PO4 consumption and avoid nitrogen deficiencies.

Zero PO4 andor zero NO3 are not good goals ,imo. and ime .I get good grwoth and color and little to no nuisance algae with Po4 in the 0.02 to 0.03 range and NO3 at around 0.2 to 1pmm. Natural surface seawater runs abut .005ppm Po4 and 0.2ppm NO3.

To those considering organic carbon dosing , this thread may help you decide on the method and or whether or not you want to do it at all:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2134105&highlight=organic+carbon+dosing
 
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You can also dose sugar or buffered vitamin-c as a carbon source.

I dose occasionally. I doubt that i am limited in N or P since i feed like mad.
 
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