Zoa/paly ID project -- Open discussion for possibilities

The last time I checked, I was a hobbyist as well. I don't moderate in this forum and am just an entitled to my opinions as anyone else.

Cheers
 
Some folks are currently trying to work this out in the background so that the whole forum doesn't fight with each other.
 
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IridescentLily said:
You DO know these people have left this open instead of locking it?

Jared, Sir Patrick, and Dee, do any of you know what Mucho and I are talking about currently? Jared and Sir Patrick, you're making things worse with Mucho and I.
If you're angry at ME then point the venom at ME. Not the owner of the forum you are using lol.

When Mucho and I are trying to work this out so that the whole forum doesn't fight with each other. And so members aren't fighting with admins.
I don't wanna see this.
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It had nothing to do with you and Mucho, it was about beerguy giving respect to DEE. Nobody is angry at you, I was upset with the way beerguy was treating DEE.
 
Jarred1 said:
It had nothing to do with you and Mucho, it was about beerguy giving respect to DEE. Nobody is angry at you, I was upset with the way beerguy was treating DEE.
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Yet, ironically, no one was bothered by DEE going after Abril.
 
and this is why i left this forum before,

But i will add my 2 cents. other then the select few i have seen consistantly post on here over the years, the only people who care about naming or benifit is people buying and selling, reguardless of how many times it is repeated about the pricing and boycotting those prices, people are still gonna pay to be one of the supposed first to have a certain morph.
To try and make a data base for care of zoa's, people would need to know where they are collected from, is it the dirty side of the island ? and so forth. and 99% of stores really dont know where they came from, i mean look around the net at all these japanese deepwater zoa's lol I do applaude what your trying to do, but in reality unless you are able to measure flow, actual light par on each species, nutrients and all other levels, put exactly what your feeding your tank daily, how your doing it, what your dosing and so forth, you will still get the my zoa's closed up, or are dying and so forth. Dont get me wrong i am for helping the next reefer as well, but have found people dont want help or to figure the problem out, they want quick fix's, not cures.

btw why dont they argue this much in the sps forum
 
NyReefNoob said:
I do applaude what your trying to do, but in reality unless you are able to measure flow, actual light par on each species, nutrients and all other levels, put exactly what your feeding your tank daily, how your doing it, what your dosing and so forth, you will still get the my zoa's closed up, or are dying and so forth.
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To get back on topic, if it is still salvageable...

Exactly... a species list of care by loaction is pretty much useless imo. If some hobbyists were well informed/eduated (or took the time to learn such things) on species locations, they would have learned that the same zoanthus species can be located in completely different areas of the ocean. Some can be pacific, some atlantic, some both. Some are thriving in high light, high flow, low nutrient level areas, while the same species is 100 ft away in a low light, low flow, high nutrient level area still thriving vibrant as ever... :idea:
IMO it is really quite silly to put a generalized care sheet on zoanthids by species or loaction...
Make them happy in your system... That is what reefing is all about! It is your obligation as a hobbyist. Find the sweet spot for them! It doesnt matter where they are collected from, what their name is, or what species they are. If you are truely a reefer, you will have no problem making them happy. :wave:
 
XSharkboyX said:
It doesnt matter where they are collected from, what their name is, or what species they are. If you are truely a reefer, you will have no problem making them happy. :wave:
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I think that highlights one of the issues that seems to be pervasive in this forum. That may not matter to you, personally, but I think it's a mistake to assume that it's not important to anyone else. Every hobbyist has different motivation, if I were creating a biotype tank, I'd care a great deal about where a coral was collected from.

Just food for thought.
 
beerguy said:
I think that highlights one of the issues that seems to be pervasive in this forum. That may not matter to you, personally, but I think it's a mistake to assume that it's not important to anyone else. Every hobbyist has different motivation, if I were creating a biotype tank, I'd care a great deal about where a coral was collected from.

Just food for thought.
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While I agree with you that caring for your corals is important. I don't really care who's tank they came from, or who collected them, or what their name is. That information is not important to me. (Might be to others, to each his/her own...) I am a reefer, I can and will make the coral/invert happy in my system. It's my obligation as a hobbyist. If I am unfamiliar with the species I will look it up in one of my books.
I have put in many hours reading books, articles, and notes about reefing and such. I strongly advise this to any other reefer. There is no substitute for research. There are no shortcuts in reefing. Which is why I still firmly believe a species by location care sheet is a bit silly imo. You must learn to think for yourself...
Like I said before it is my opinion. If the rc zoa forum wants it, more power to them. Have at it. I think they will be disappointed the first time they bring home a Z. sociatus from Fiji and find that the frag/colony does not like the params listed on the reef central care sheet for it... :worried:
 
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I am still finding one problem, how would we gauge how much flow is high, medium, or low flow? Same with light, it would just take too much time and there are too many different types of polyps to take these measurements for. What we could do is put together a detailed guide on how you should acclimate your new polyps to your system.
 
Exactly... a species list of care by loaction is pretty much useless imo. If some hobbyists were well informed/eduated (or took the time to learn such things) on species locations, they would have learned that the same zoanthus species can be located in completely different areas of the ocean. Some can be pacific, some atlantic, some both. Some are thriving in high light, high flow, low nutrient level areas, while the same species is
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exact same can be said for tanks as well so what good is a care sheet period ?

I don't really care who's tank they came from, or who collected them, or what their name is. That information is not important to me.
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so not know parms or lighting from previous tank doesnt make a differance ?


so not knowing where that colony came from doesnt make a differance ? not knowing if it needs dirtier water, or if a cleaner system would be better is useless ? i havent been into zoa's as long as some { only 6 years } and i may not have had as many morphs { 100+ more around 200 } and have seen where some zoa's just wouldnt do as well as others in my system, no matter where placed in my tank, how about a species that doesnt handle being fragged, yes i know frags frags frags, but it is a reality and people are going to do it and why shouldnt reguardless they know how to frag and what one's to just leave alone because of the high melt off after you mess with them
and here is a quote from Dr Mac
I have been to the Solomons and collected zoos there along side native collectors.

The area where they come from is in one relatively small location just a few feet from the beach in an area where raw sewage can enter the water. They are found everywhere in this location covering the rocks for miles in every direction and are only a few inches to no more than a few feet below the surface, as a matter of fact in this area there are very few found below about 5-10 feet. Large sections can be left out of the water at low tide and waves crash on the colonies constantly. The rocks in this area are covered in hair algae and other macro algae--those that get these colonies direct from the Solomons will often see the colonies are covered in silt and algae. Algae blennies are common in the area, other corals growing in this area are Acropora and Pocillopora, both not so colorful in this area.

When the zoo colonies are cut from the rock often the new exposed rock on the base is black with anaerobic bacteria and all types of worms and other critters. These colonies are held for a relatively short period prior to shipment to the US. The colonies are held in shallow tubs under diffused natural sunlight with minimal water flow.

Upon arrival in the US I always dip them in freshwater for about 10 minutes and then saltwater with Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure. Usually on a weekly to monthly basis I will import 50-100 4-6 inch colonies. Unlike zoos colledted from other parts of the world, these colonies are sort of shaved off the rocks rather than whole chucks of rock with some zoos on it such as those shipped from Fiji or Bali. Most colonies have an assortment of pests and hitchhikers that fall off in the dips. I then keep them in a shallow vat with intense direct water flow and lots of large Turbo and other assorted snails for 1-2 weeks before doing anything further with them. This works very well in preventing fungal infections and other common problems with these zoos.

Overall, I think the Solomon Island zoos are collected and handled well and the native folks work hard to get us some awesome corals and overall do a great job. They handle lots of different types of corals in volumes, so individual care for each individual colony is not practical, but overall they do a excellent job. Having attempted collecting them myself I can tell you it is difficult. The variety of colors is incredible and blues, reds, and pinks found regularly in this area with most colonies having a mix of colors, multi colored colonies with tightly packed polyps are typical for Solomon zoos.

So, the area where Solomon zoos we get in this country are collected from is a specific shallow tidal pool with intense tropical sunlight, very intense regular wave water flow, high nutrient murky water, the colonies can often be covered in algae and there are relatively few fish in the area so some pests can be allowed to flourish in these colonies growing with tightly packed polyps. I was diving in many other areas in the Solomons and never found zoos in any other areas this leads one to believe that they do need these specific conditions to thrive in the wild.

Growing in this environment explains how hardy these corals can be, but also may explain why some don't do well in certain captive conditions. In my facility I have one SPS system and one soft coral system, the water in the SPS system is more pristine and the zoos definitely do not do as well in that system. This is an observation based upon several years and many hundreds of colonies, not specific individual pieces, ie. these corals are quite adaptable and individual colonies can do exceptionally well under a wide variety of conditions. Someone here will likely say they have some thriving zoos in their SPS dominated tank, but this may not be the general rule for these corals. Colors will fade without intense lighting IME. IMO the most ideal captive environment for these corals is a less heavily skimmed tank that is fed well regularly with very intense lighting and water flow. Definitely most of these corals are sold under the idea that they do well under less lighting and water flow, some colonies can adapt, buy IME to thrive in terms of maximum genetic potential growth and color they will not do their best under low flow and light and too pristine water quality.
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I've been tagging along, but haven't really had any input yet. Newer to RC, but not to the hobby or other forums.

NyReefNob this is a great post. I also read this on MR thanks again for posting it. I think this is one of the main things that effect zoos. There's def a reason why i can't keep a "magician" in my tank (no matter where the location) without it losing the intensity of its color, and growth is very very slow. But i give a couple to my buddy to put in his nano cube and they color up and grow like crazy. The two setups would be pefect examples for the clean vs dirtier.

I do think that the main reason people would use this database would be for the name game. Which is just about pointless, because most asking for an ID go on zoaid first and give up even though their morph is under 3 different names. But as some others have stated in this thread.....they suggest reading up and learning as much as you can. There is def a great deal of knowledge from members of this forum that could be used by others. With that being said i don't think you need to list lighting, location, flow, but could be some helpful hints you have found with certain morphs, such as, the "dirty vs clean tank" idea

Well there's my $ .02 Hopefully i'll be more a regular participant in this forum than my 2 posts in my first couple months on here LOL
 
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