180 gallon upgrade (skimmerless)

[sltloser]

Well i'm sure everyone thought that my tank crashed and everything died...haha well it's exactly the opposite. Everything has been doing wonderful! I see a lot of growth on all of the corals i rescued. I tried to get the same picture so you could compare the amount of growth but i wasn't able to for all, so don't think i'm trying to fool you with camera angles or anything, I'm not that smart .So here's a good sized update for everyone.

Leng Sai Cap Dec 8 2010

Leng Sai Cap Feb 15 2011

Red Montipora Sept 22 2010

Red Montipora Feb 15 2011

(close up)

Staghorn? Dec 8 2010

Staghorn? Feb 15 2011

Worm Brain Dec 8 2010

Worm Brain Feb 15 2011

 

[sltloser]

Green Tabling Acro Dec 8 2010

Green Tabling Acro Feb 15 2011

Left Side Feb 15 2011

Middle Feb 15 2011

Right Side Feb 15 2011

And finally my newest addition A 3" Deresa from ORA.

Sorry the pictures aren't the greatest, i'm just using a cheaper digital camera. Feel free to comment or ask questions as always! I didn't take pictures of all the corals (out of laziness) let me know if you would like to see how any of the others are doing. Some haven't shown as much growth, but are slowly getting better.

 

[EleganceMan]

this tank makes me want to buy another skimmer!!!.....LOL

 

[sltloser]

haha, you don't see everything in my tank dead.....end of story lets move on

 

[EleganceMan]

so was that the point....that you could have a saltwater tank without a skimmer....or was it to show u can have a real reef tank with happy healthy colorful corals and fish?? Because I think we all new you could do what your doing...but no one wants too. We strive for something good to look at and its been over a year now so i would say all you did was prove that skimmers are needed. The sad truth is that I do think what you are trying to do is possible....first off because I have done it for several years and second there is a lot of other people who do it with much better representations than this. All this looks like is someone who cant really afford a reef tank and takes home all the crap his boss at the local pet shop doesnt want. Which is fine but dont try and post it with the intentions of enlightening us all.

 

[sltloser]

ha, First off have u ever been snorkleing or scuba diving on a reef? do you even know what the corals look like in the ocean? They don't look like a bunch of colorful sticks all jammed together and overgrowing eachother. There's algae, corals, fish, inverts. So don't try to patronize me, if you looked at the posts above you would see that the corals didn't come from the store they're from dave's tank. Third it hasn't been a year look at the dates and do the math. It's not possible hu? go ask Eric Borneman or Dr. Ron Shimek a skimmer simply isn't needed, and i'm done wasting my breath on you if you want to continue this conversation you know where i work, quit spamming RC.

 

[EleganceMan]

LOL i guess everyone else on here with nicer tanks than your dump are all just not as smart as you....we must just have a better job and can afford to waist money on equipment that is not needed!!! OMG I forgot how far up Erics ... you are....so funny! Maybe your tank will crash like his and you can blame it on someone else too!! Get a new role model and grow up Kid!!

 

[palmer373]

way to be harsh, sure its not the most b-e-a-utiful tank in the world but its doing good IMO. sltloser, there is surprisingly a lot of people using scrubbers, myself included. im running one on my 75 reef and although the tank isnt gorgeous im seeing great growth. here is some guildlines to better improve yoru ATS

0.5 actual (not equivalent) fluorescent watts per gallon MINIMUM [0.13 watts per liter].
1.0 actual (not equivalent) fluorescent watts per gallon for HIGH filtering [0.26 watts per liter].
1.0 square inches of screen per gallon, with bulbs on BOTH sides (10 x 10 = 100 square inches = 100 gal)
[1.64 square cm per liter]
2.0 square inches of screen per gallon, if vertical but lit on just ONE side. [3.28 square cm per liter]
4.0 square inches of screen per gallon, if HORIZONTAL [6.56 square cm per liter].
1.5 actual (not equivalent) fluorescent watts per gallon if HORIZONTAL [0.4 watts per liter].
18 hours of lights ON, and 6 hours of lights OFF, each day.
Flow is 24 hours, and is at least 35 gph per inch of width of screen, EVEN IF one sided [60 lph per cm].
Very rough screen made of roughed-up-like-a-cactus plastic canvas.
Clean algae off of screen every SEVEN (7) days NO MATTER WHAT YOU THINK.

here is a forum with great info! http://www.algaescrubber.net/forums/index.php look through the site to better improve your ATS. im thinking of doing an ATS (a few hundred dollars cheaper than a skimmer) on my next upgrade (+180g).

 

[sltloser]

Palmer- I don't mean for this to come off as rude by any means, I'm just scientifically driven (majoring in zoology) and like to see experimental evidence of such claims but where did all this info come from? Did someone actually conduct an experiment for there guidelines? I've heard all of the things above you've mentioned. In my tank right now with A dsb and ats there is zero nitrates and zero phosphates so its working very effectively (not purely the ats, the tank as an ecosystem) and I feed quite a bit of food. Fish are fed their own mix of food at least once daily, and corals fed nightly with their food mixture. And just recently I've started feeding newly hatched brine shrimp cysts to the tank (3g of cysts) and the Corals love it, I would encourage everyone to try it...you can find how to do it in the CORAL magazine or the link I posted a few pages back. But thank you for the information!

 

[robot2222]

i think the tank is awesome . it is nice to ee something different .

 

[rivoth]

Thanks for the update, nice to see everything progressing along.

 

[Jacuzzi]

Great tank mate! I have been running my 40 breeder skimmerless for about three years with great results. I've got everything from zoas, favia, hammers, slimers and monticaps. This hobby brings the best and worst out of people who think they always know whats best. There are sometimes many ways to accomplish something some with longer routes than others. I for one use to run a skimmer but one day I went to clean it and just left it off and my tank has never been happier. Good maint. schedule is all I need. I love when people come over to buy frags and are shocked by my tank cause they went out and bought a buch of "stuff" they thought was needed. Reality is hard for some people when it hits and they dont help you in this hobby so keep on doing what your doing. Whip the haters off!!

 

[palmer373]

slt- you werent rude at all. SantaMonica, creator of that sight and 'The Man' of scrubbers, pionered the ATS in a way. his tank is really an experimental tank where he throws in different chemicals to see what makes the scrubber grow better or worse. im sorry im kindof just barfing what other people have told me and what ive read but to get the best knowledge skim through that site, specifically in the FAQ and Scrubber sections.

on my 75 i have a 6-7" DSB (1yr 4 months old), 10x10 screen, 0 nitrates and phosphates, and happy corals and growth. i feed atleast 4 times daily and i dont feed lightly each feeding. i just posted the info for those haters out there that are confused and say the scrubber isnt working cause your tank isnt 'beautiful'. if the scrubber can take care of all the food im putting in and still provide growth for the fish and corals then its working IMO.

 

[sltloser]

Thank you jacuzzi, I ran my 75 gallon almost the same way as my 180 except I used cheto instead of an ATS. I would love to see pictures of your 40 breeder if you have a thread, or just want to post some on here! I also haven't done a water change on this tank since i've set it up, besides the initial nutrient spike everything has been at been steady at the appropriate levels. I personally love my tank right now, the only downside is that I saved all these corals so i don't have the tru biotype i'm looking for. Once the corals get healthier though i'll be looking for a new home for them and I can continue my journy towards the biotype i want.

Palmer- Glad it didn't come off that way, i thought it might have been santamonica who you were quoting from. He has really helped to push the ATS into the hobby, and I think it's great that he has. It will help many more people sucessfully keep NO3 and PO4 down in their tanks. The things you posted above I think are very good guidlines, they're effective and work. I guess what i'm trying to say is that I think the scrubbers can be smaller than what he suggests. My design is also a little different than most (not bashing the vertical ATS) so I think that plays a roll as to why i can have a smaller ATS. (but who knows, that's just a guess haha) I would also love to see some pictures of your tank palmer, if you can link a build or simply post pictures that would be great!

 

[palmer373]

originally i was wanting to do a scrubber like yours because i first read this thread a few months before i heard bout the scrubbers, i guess i wanted to be on the safe side so i did the vertical one. eitehr way its a scrubber right? lol i need to get some updated pics for my thread on my local forum (fyi its about 3 pages of pics and 20something pages of random talk, seriously lol) so ill try to get some onto this thread of my scrubber and 75. the old pics are on the other comp which is slow as heck but ill see what i can do.

here is my 75 (first pics is of last year, idk where the recent ones are...) 9 pages http://www.alaskafragswap.com/forum/index.php?f=9&t=474&rb_v=viewtopic&start=0
and 55, 22 pages lol (its full of random talk)
http://www.alaskafragswap.com/forum/index.php?f=9&t=475&rb_v=viewtopic&start=0

the 55 was started in july '10 i beleive and the 75 was started in labor day '09

the fraggle rocks tank is a great thread to read if you have an hour or so.

ya i think really the only first 5 pages of both threads have useful info...

 

[sltloser]

The tank looks good, i'd like to see some newer pictures

 

[palmer373]

uploading to photobucket, give me a sec.

 

[eyeluvcoral]

I really like the Angels! Your corals look like heck but you can always work on that. I have 2 nano tanks that are thriving and beautiful and neither use a skimmer. A skimmer is an excellent tool to maintain water purity. However it is very possible to have a beautiful thriving tank without one. Don't over stock or over feed. And do a significant water change every month.

 

[palmer373]

lol i got some pics of my tank now:
FTS, i have to stop feeding so much, glass turned green 4 hours after i cleaned it lol, ATS isnt mature either

got this hammer with 1 head, now has 4

25+ head duncan for $30

you can sortof see this guy encrusting, bad pic

i think this was sold as a watermelon chalice, but it has grown

started with 4 polyps, now have about 20 in 3 months

he is sensitive to phosphates and nitrates, hes open today

sump shot

cleaned this side a week ago, going to clean the other side today or tomarow

 

[palmer373]

2 more pics, sorry for them being big i dont knwo hwo to make them smaller lol.

thats the good ones i got, nothing special considering the ATS is a month old (it wont get better for another month when its mature). as you can tell my 75 is not TOTM but the corals are happy and growing so im happy. if you close one eye and squint with the other the GHA actually looks good!

the last pic is the side that im going to clean today or tomarow and i think i need to add 1 more light on each side.