200g in-wall project officially started
- Thread starter Benny Z
- Start date
rick rottet
reefkeeper// propagator
UPS won't carry anything over 5' (60")
kennethl
New member
looks like I've missed a bit of discussion over the past couple weeks..
so now that I'm caught up on the discussion I'm going to throw in my two cents having had some experience with this tank.
1)Buy a new acrylic tank. I'm pretty sure they can be had for under $1500 custom & shipped. You'll exceed that cost in livestock in no time.
You're modifing a 20 year old tank and changing the structural integrity, putting it in a new home, on a stand thats already under some level of scrutiny.. Once the tank is up and running your committed.
2)The current tank will make a great sump if you cut it as shown in the pics. As a sump only half full of water I wouldnt be too concerned about the structural changes..add some baffles and your styln.
3)dont get in a hurry.. rumor has it that only bad things happen fast in this hobby
so now that I'm caught up on the discussion I'm going to throw in my two cents having had some experience with this tank.
1)Buy a new acrylic tank. I'm pretty sure they can be had for under $1500 custom & shipped. You'll exceed that cost in livestock in no time.
You're modifing a 20 year old tank and changing the structural integrity, putting it in a new home, on a stand thats already under some level of scrutiny.. Once the tank is up and running your committed.
2)The current tank will make a great sump if you cut it as shown in the pics. As a sump only half full of water I wouldnt be too concerned about the structural changes..add some baffles and your styln.
3)dont get in a hurry.. rumor has it that only bad things happen fast in this hobby
Benny Z
In Memoriam
arg!!!
i'll explore the possibility of a new acrylic tank, but to be honest, it's probably not going to be a possibility. the reason i was able to convince my wife of doing this in the first place was because the tank was free. i'm pretty much going to exhaust the budget on lighting, pumps, and other equipment. i wasn't planning to stock the tank until tax return time.
are there any tank builders that you would recommend i request a quote from?
in an ideal world that would be great. i could request an 80x24x24 tank euro-braced with a tank-long external overflow. yes, that would be very nice. i just don't think it's realistic.
i'll explore the possibility of a new acrylic tank, but to be honest, it's probably not going to be a possibility. the reason i was able to convince my wife of doing this in the first place was because the tank was free. i'm pretty much going to exhaust the budget on lighting, pumps, and other equipment. i wasn't planning to stock the tank until tax return time.
are there any tank builders that you would recommend i request a quote from?
in an ideal world that would be great. i could request an 80x24x24 tank euro-braced with a tank-long external overflow. yes, that would be very nice. i just don't think it's realistic.
kennethl
New member
ahh the wife factor. this is probibly the most important issue you've brought up so far. For my wife and I, the tank you have was a learning tool. For me it was proving i could handle it.. For the wife it was an eye opener on expense and paitience.
to have all these issues discussed above, worked out and the tank ready for stocking by feb is aggressively and very ambishus. What do you think the costs could amount to if there's an issue on any one of the topics discussed in this thread? Ask the same question to your wife and see if she's informed and also willing go fast and run the risks.
Truth be told $1500 is a drop in the bucket compared to the long term costs associated with a tank of this size. Just my skimmer (ASM) was $500 after shipping, any idea what your rock is going to cost?.. well you probibly see where I'm going.
The best thing you can do is slow down. Throw away any stocking time lines. Check out all of your options, look deep into your self and do what you know is right. If you throw away time lines and build / buy a little bit at a time, it becomes less stressful, much more affordable and you will have a better end result.. think long term not feb..
as for acrylic tank builders.. there is a guy that posts regularly on the boards name "Acrylic" and I hear his tanks are first rate. I fully expect Horace to start a glass vs acrylic debate.. he just likes to debate
If you want to stay in $1500 price range and this size tank and viewable clarity you'll pretty much have to go with acrylic.
to have all these issues discussed above, worked out and the tank ready for stocking by feb is aggressively and very ambishus. What do you think the costs could amount to if there's an issue on any one of the topics discussed in this thread? Ask the same question to your wife and see if she's informed and also willing go fast and run the risks.
Truth be told $1500 is a drop in the bucket compared to the long term costs associated with a tank of this size. Just my skimmer (ASM) was $500 after shipping, any idea what your rock is going to cost?.. well you probibly see where I'm going.
The best thing you can do is slow down. Throw away any stocking time lines. Check out all of your options, look deep into your self and do what you know is right. If you throw away time lines and build / buy a little bit at a time, it becomes less stressful, much more affordable and you will have a better end result.. think long term not feb..
as for acrylic tank builders.. there is a guy that posts regularly on the boards name "Acrylic" and I hear his tanks are first rate. I fully expect Horace to start a glass vs acrylic debate.. he just likes to debate
If you want to stay in $1500 price range and this size tank and viewable clarity you'll pretty much have to go with acrylic.
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Benny Z
In Memoriam
sorry...the comment about not being ready to stock until february was totally based on monetary constraints, not on the build timeline. i'll definately take my time and go slowly. i just meant that the funds availalble for the project now will only cover getting the tank up and running. however long that takes is however long it takes. i just meant that money for livestock won't be available until tax time. sorry for the confusion.
i do understand it's an expensive thing to set up and maintain. that's why a lot of what i'm going to be doing will be diy. ...including the skimmer and probably most of the liverock (will be baserock seeded with some liverock over top).
by mid-february i would at least like to have the tank on the stand, the wall framed in, and the plumbing finished. at that point i will begin electrical wiring and building a light rack.
i do understand it's an expensive thing to set up and maintain. that's why a lot of what i'm going to be doing will be diy. ...including the skimmer and probably most of the liverock (will be baserock seeded with some liverock over top).
by mid-february i would at least like to have the tank on the stand, the wall framed in, and the plumbing finished. at that point i will begin electrical wiring and building a light rack.
kennethl ~ i'm sure your comments are well intentioned, however they aren't what bennyz is asking about. he has committed to this tank as his display. he'd like to cut the holes out a bit larger. he's building a stand, he's making progress towards filling and stocking the tank.
if you have comments to help him mover forward, then i'm sure he'd appreciate. otherwise its like all those "tang" police telling my people they can't have a tang in a nano, when they're asking about putting one in a 100g tank...
if you have comments to help him mover forward, then i'm sure he'd appreciate. otherwise its like all those "tang" police telling my people they can't have a tang in a nano, when they're asking about putting one in a 100g tank...
Kennth, I'm not sure whether to call you a Killjoy.....
....or a spiritual leader.:strooper:
Either way, good advice.
Benny, As you found with the stand "DIY" doesn't always mean significantly less money. With all the money I've spent on PVC, fittings, and glue, and pumps, on all the different skimmer I"ve built over the years....I probably could have just bought the euroreef I now own right up front.
Still, if you have time to tinker, it can be done. I've had a couple set-ups with NO flourescents, and PVC skimmers, (or no skimmers) that were quite nice. Can't get much cheaper than that.
I've done the baserock to liverock thing before, too. It takes patience, and it works, although it will never be quite as nice (live) as the real thing. Of course, if your rock eventually becomes completely covered in corals you won't care. Just be sure to include some decent herbivores because you will have more/longer lasting issues with algae. The big turbos are really the best tool for the job.
The tank you have will probably work, but if this is going to be a built in tank then Kenneth's advice is sound.
Dan
Benny Z
In Memoriam
if i had a spare ~$1,500, trust me, i wouldn't hesitate to spend it on a new display. but, the reality is i don't, so i'm going to make do with what has graciously been given me.
about the liverock v/s baserock (or combo)... we will see. i really haven't thought that far ahead yet. no, i take that back - i've thought about it, but haven't made a final decision yet. ...just like the lighting and the skimmer(s). i'll tackle that when the time comes.
but, for now, i really need to focus on the current project. ...which would be building the stand, increasing the openings in the top of the tank, and building a tank-long overflow box. that's about as much as i can handle right now and i'd really like to focus on those things. once those are done we can start talking about plumbing, lights, skimmers, and then liverock.
so, back to the current - does anyone see any problems with this stand design, other than using 2x6s for the top rails instead of 2x4s? http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=709837&highlight=stand+building
if not, i'll get this built just after christmas.
about the liverock v/s baserock (or combo)... we will see. i really haven't thought that far ahead yet. no, i take that back - i've thought about it, but haven't made a final decision yet. ...just like the lighting and the skimmer(s). i'll tackle that when the time comes.
but, for now, i really need to focus on the current project. ...which would be building the stand, increasing the openings in the top of the tank, and building a tank-long overflow box. that's about as much as i can handle right now and i'd really like to focus on those things. once those are done we can start talking about plumbing, lights, skimmers, and then liverock.
so, back to the current - does anyone see any problems with this stand design, other than using 2x6s for the top rails instead of 2x4s? http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=709837&highlight=stand+building
if not, i'll get this built just after christmas.
AnnArborBuck
New member
For base rock i would look into hirocks or reeferrocks. They are very cheap and look good once they are all covered in coraline.
Don't get too discouraged. The up side to a tank that that old is that it proven it hold water. DIY can cut cost with some good planning. I would guess David Lee is about the best in the area for $ / gal. Mostly due to careful planning with mostly DIY that was OK the first time, lots of gal helps also. Henry has often given a figure of $50 / gal. For long term cost look for effiecent lights and pumps. When Dana and I started our tank we thought it would mostly be like a 180 with some extra swimming room.
If you are happy about your tank, use it. I think you really can scale back the cost a bit depending on what you want to keep. I would recomend trying to get lights and pumps that will be good long term. I think the biggest way to save money is not to make a mistake in these areas and have to redo them.
Steve
If you are happy about your tank, use it. I think you really can scale back the cost a bit depending on what you want to keep. I would recomend trying to get lights and pumps that will be good long term. I think the biggest way to save money is not to make a mistake in these areas and have to redo them.
Steve
kennethl
New member
Boxer, I have ten years exp with the tank being discussed. True, the tank in its current condition is proven, holds water and doesnt leak...when its on the manufactures stand, & without any changes to the structural integrity. Will it be safe with a homemade stand and the tops cut out. Maybe.
My point is, after making modifications the very best thing that can happen is everything is just OK.. that leaves allot of room for everything else. The last thing I want to read about is the tank failing a year down the line, taking the livestock with it and ruining a room in his new home. but hey, maybe I'm really not looking out for his best interest...
"if you have comments to help him mover forward, then i'm sure he'd appreciate. otherwise its like all those "tang" police telling my people they can't have a tang in a nano, when they're asking about putting one in a 100g tank..."
my comments are completely geared twards helping him move forward.. If your too short sighted to see that, well.. its your short coming... not mine.
Benny, free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.
the three 400 watt bulbs will light that tank nicely. I ran 680 watt VHO and 500 watt 250 20k MH and had no trouble growing sps, the soft corals didnt do as well in the direct light. Sometime down the line you might consider adding some actinic vho so you can simulate sunrise/sunset.
My point is, after making modifications the very best thing that can happen is everything is just OK.. that leaves allot of room for everything else. The last thing I want to read about is the tank failing a year down the line, taking the livestock with it and ruining a room in his new home. but hey, maybe I'm really not looking out for his best interest...
"if you have comments to help him mover forward, then i'm sure he'd appreciate. otherwise its like all those "tang" police telling my people they can't have a tang in a nano, when they're asking about putting one in a 100g tank..."
my comments are completely geared twards helping him move forward.. If your too short sighted to see that, well.. its your short coming... not mine.
Benny, free advice is worth exactly what you pay for it.
the three 400 watt bulbs will light that tank nicely. I ran 680 watt VHO and 500 watt 250 20k MH and had no trouble growing sps, the soft corals didnt do as well in the direct light. Sometime down the line you might consider adding some actinic vho so you can simulate sunrise/sunset.
Benny Z
In Memoriam
after researching lighting more extensively, i'm learning that 3 400w halides would be overkill on this tank, even if it's 100% sps/clams. the par output at the sandbed from 250w 10k xm bulbs should be plenty to keep anything under the sun (pardon the funny 
).
so, as of now, this is the plan for lighting:
3 x 250w mogul base halides w/ 10k xm bulbs
4 x 80w t5 w/ blueplus bulbs - still trying to determine which ballasts to go with
i think this will give the best ballance of par output and electricity consumption.
).so, as of now, this is the plan for lighting:
3 x 250w mogul base halides w/ 10k xm bulbs
4 x 80w t5 w/ blueplus bulbs - still trying to determine which ballasts to go with
i think this will give the best ballance of par output and electricity consumption.
kennethl
New member
Benny, I have to retract the 3 x 400watt statement. Heat in that tank was always a big issue. Running the 3 400w bulbs you would likely run into heat probs right from the start. Chillers are an expense you probibly dont want.
On that note, the tank evaporated about 6 gallons a day at 79 degrees. When the tank was running 86 degrees it was much higher..
fyi if your speccing out equipment.. I intially ran a blue line hd 70 for a closed loop and the temps ran about 86 -87. The only way I was able to bring it down without sacrificing flow was to goto a pair of tunze and turn off the blueline (temps dropped to 81-82). You dont need tuze but some high flow power heads will go along way. I also saw some diy tunze plans you might take a look at.
It might be premtive to look at ways of exhausting some of that humid air.
"Would it be possible to build something under the existing stand to get it to the height you need? Then atleast you know its not going to warp and break the tank."
good idea horace. Self leveling concrete?
On that note, the tank evaporated about 6 gallons a day at 79 degrees. When the tank was running 86 degrees it was much higher..
fyi if your speccing out equipment.. I intially ran a blue line hd 70 for a closed loop and the temps ran about 86 -87. The only way I was able to bring it down without sacrificing flow was to goto a pair of tunze and turn off the blueline (temps dropped to 81-82). You dont need tuze but some high flow power heads will go along way. I also saw some diy tunze plans you might take a look at.
It might be premtive to look at ways of exhausting some of that humid air.
"Would it be possible to build something under the existing stand to get it to the height you need? Then atleast you know its not going to warp and break the tank."
good idea horace. Self leveling concrete?
I think that diy was already using 2x6's, the other one only had 2x4's.
Hmm, unless you're talking about the legs, which he boxed in some.
For the perimeter frame part, I'd maybe think about 2x8's anyway,
if not 2x10's. That stand was 6' long, yours will be 8'. And I'd put
some bracing between the long runs to reduce any bowing and
twisting. (have you bought any lumber lately?)
Thinking along those lines, you might check around regarding where
to buy _quality_ lumber.
Lowell
Benny Z
In Memoriam
you're right, those are 2x6s. drrr... :smokin:
thanks for the advice. someone else suggested 2x8s. maybe i'll go ahead and do 2x10s. good call. ...although the tank is 80 inches, not 8 feet long.
anyone know where to buy _quality_ lumber in bloomington/normal? i won't buy it at lowe's or menard's. would rp lumber or hundman lumber be an ok source?
thanks for the advice. someone else suggested 2x8s. maybe i'll go ahead and do 2x10s. good call. ...although the tank is 80 inches, not 8 feet long.
anyone know where to buy _quality_ lumber in bloomington/normal? i won't buy it at lowe's or menard's. would rp lumber or hundman lumber be an ok source?
2x8's sound good then. 2x10's might be a little overkill, not that
that's a bad thing, and if I remember, under stand space isn't an
issue. (?) ...and they don't make trees like they used to.
When David was in the throes of cabinetry, we were talking
about a place on 51 between the south I-74 exit and Bloomington.
Don't recall the name, or really know if it has lumber. It was
suggested by someone in the furniture shop here at UofI.
that's a bad thing, and if I remember, under stand space isn't an
issue. (?) ...and they don't make trees like they used to.
When David was in the throes of cabinetry, we were talking
about a place on 51 between the south I-74 exit and Bloomington.
Don't recall the name, or really know if it has lumber. It was
suggested by someone in the furniture shop here at UofI.
