240 Inwall Construction (Image Intense)
- Thread starter gregt
- Start date
- Status
weatherson
Premium Member
Gujustud: That's a very good eye you have there. 
Yes, I replaced the stainless steel wing nuts with some more comfortable on the fingers plastic units from US Plastics.
Joseph
Yes, I replaced the stainless steel wing nuts with some more comfortable on the fingers plastic units from US Plastics. Joseph
weatherson
Premium Member
So... I've been considering altering my closed loops for some time and finally acquired of a couple Penductors from KTH Sales. These are essentially venturis which increase flow when used with a fairly strong pressure rated pump. You can check out the more detailed info on their site. In the past, the only versions of these devises were rather long and unsightly. Fortunately, they've redesigned them and have reduced their length to only three inches and now produce them in the color of black.
I decided to do some experimenting to help justify in my mind that this was a worth while change. I did so on my left closed loop which includes a Iwaki 55 pump. What I did was to shoot three photos, each with air injected into the line to help visualize the flow. First, I took a shot with the previous setup of the one inch line that was split to two and then housed two 3/4" locline nozzles on each. Here's the shot of this setup and the flow within the tank caused by them.
Next is a shot of the single one inch line with a simple one inch elbow as the outlet.
Last of all, here's a shot with the Penductor in place at the end of the single one inch line. The increase in flow was nothing short of amazing with it hitting the opposite wall at eight feet away.
Joseph
I decided to do some experimenting to help justify in my mind that this was a worth while change. I did so on my left closed loop which includes a Iwaki 55 pump. What I did was to shoot three photos, each with air injected into the line to help visualize the flow. First, I took a shot with the previous setup of the one inch line that was split to two and then housed two 3/4" locline nozzles on each. Here's the shot of this setup and the flow within the tank caused by them.
Next is a shot of the single one inch line with a simple one inch elbow as the outlet.
Last of all, here's a shot with the Penductor in place at the end of the single one inch line. The increase in flow was nothing short of amazing with it hitting the opposite wall at eight feet away.
Joseph
melev
Well-known member
Joseph, that is very interesting. I've had the opportunity to buy these locally once, and didn't. With my tank being 6 feet, I really don't feel I have the room or the layout to use them. I do have a Super Squirt that I'll be working with soon, and I'm trying to decide where I want the returns to be.
Thanks for the comparison shots. How did you feed air into the plumbing, btw?
Thanks for the comparison shots. How did you feed air into the plumbing, btw?
selgado
Premium Member
weatherson said:
Joseph
Nothing short of amazing! I'm surprised you didn't invent those first!
Thanks for taking the time to give all of us a first hand review! Some of us don't have the financial resources to experiment, so your willingness to share is sooooooo appreciated!
Hef
Premium Member
So what would be your recomendation for your tank? 4 Penductors on 1" lines, or what?
I'm designing a 7ft x 2 x 2 tank. I have an Ocean Motion 4-Way. Planning to buy the proper Iwaki Pump to run two Penductors at the same time and let the 4-Way rotate the flow around. Just wondering about the plumbing, should I go 1" or 3/4".
Also thinking of having the holes drilled in the sides with bulkheads to screw the Penductor right into the side, that will make them even smaller. Might not be able to Aim Them, might have to screw in a piece of LockLine first.
Great Work!
Thanks
Hef
I'm designing a 7ft x 2 x 2 tank. I have an Ocean Motion 4-Way. Planning to buy the proper Iwaki Pump to run two Penductors at the same time and let the 4-Way rotate the flow around. Just wondering about the plumbing, should I go 1" or 3/4".
Also thinking of having the holes drilled in the sides with bulkheads to screw the Penductor right into the side, that will make them even smaller. Might not be able to Aim Them, might have to screw in a piece of LockLine first.
Great Work!
Thanks
Hef
weatherson
Premium Member
DaddyJax: I'm very pleased that this thread has enabled you to get closer to acquiring your new tank. A 440-gallon? Very nice. :thumbsup: Thanks for the kind words.
RGibson: Yes, at $25. each, this has to be the best bang-for-the-buck addition to my tank. They sort of defy all the laws of physics. Well... perhaps not but they are very cool none-the-less.
qwuintus: Actually, more accurately, Penductors or more generally, eductors. But yes, that's what they are and you are welcome.
Marc: It really depends on what pump you put behind them. You could still utilize them in your 6' tank but certainly with a lower pressure pump than the Iwaki 55 I am using. Either way, they are a cheap way to increase your flow.
I injected the air with a John Guest ball valve I drilled, tapped a hole for on my left closed loop pump's inlet line. I needed a way to drain the line of water when it was time to clean the pump's impeller housing anyway so this is what I did.
selgado: You are very welcome and it's my pleasure. Literally.
wonrib00: I will say that most of my SPS slimed just after this experiment but the air injection was just temporary for the visual presentation. The Penductors don't normally inject air but rather just increase the amount of water flowing through them. So... the answers are no and yes, it could be.
Hef: I am pleased with the layout I currently have with a single Penductor on each closed loop system, one at each end of the tank. These move enough water to the point of any more and I would have a sand storm.
In retrospect, and as you mention, I wish I'd of had the ends of my tank drilled at the area where my closed loop returns are to minimize in-tank plumbing. As far as utilizing Locline to allow for aiming, until Paul at OM starts producing the 1" Locline-similar plumbing, you may have to do as I did with dual 45-degree connectors together for aiming. These allow a multitude of possible angles. Unfortunately, the Penductors come either MPT or FPT connectors which won't allow for a Locline interface in conjunction with a bulkhead. Unless there are some available parts that I am unaware of, that is.
As far as the plumbing for your tank goes, I'd recommend 1" all the way, or as far as you can, to the Penductors. This will alleviate as much flow restriction as possible and provide the greatest amount of flow. These Penductors need pressure to operate most efficiently.
Joseph
A 440-gallon? Very nice. :thumbsup: Thanks for the kind words.RGibson: Yes, at $25. each, this has to be the best bang-for-the-buck addition to my tank. They sort of defy all the laws of physics. Well... perhaps not but they are very cool none-the-less.
qwuintus: Actually, more accurately, Penductors or more generally, eductors. But yes, that's what they are and you are welcome.
Marc: It really depends on what pump you put behind them. You could still utilize them in your 6' tank but certainly with a lower pressure pump than the Iwaki 55 I am using. Either way, they are a cheap way to increase your flow.
I injected the air with a John Guest ball valve I drilled, tapped a hole for on my left closed loop pump's inlet line. I needed a way to drain the line of water when it was time to clean the pump's impeller housing anyway so this is what I did.
selgado: You are very welcome and it's my pleasure. Literally.
wonrib00: I will say that most of my SPS slimed just after this experiment but the air injection was just temporary for the visual presentation. The Penductors don't normally inject air but rather just increase the amount of water flowing through them. So... the answers are no and yes, it could be.
Hef: I am pleased with the layout I currently have with a single Penductor on each closed loop system, one at each end of the tank. These move enough water to the point of any more and I would have a sand storm.
In retrospect, and as you mention, I wish I'd of had the ends of my tank drilled at the area where my closed loop returns are to minimize in-tank plumbing. As far as utilizing Locline to allow for aiming, until Paul at OM starts producing the 1" Locline-similar plumbing, you may have to do as I did with dual 45-degree connectors together for aiming. These allow a multitude of possible angles. Unfortunately, the Penductors come either MPT or FPT connectors which won't allow for a Locline interface in conjunction with a bulkhead. Unless there are some available parts that I am unaware of, that is.
As far as the plumbing for your tank goes, I'd recommend 1" all the way, or as far as you can, to the Penductors. This will alleviate as much flow restriction as possible and provide the greatest amount of flow. These Penductors need pressure to operate most efficiently.
Joseph
LittleBlueGT
New member
A couple things to keep in mind regarding the eductors. 3/4 inch line will be fine to use before them. A Penductor has an outlet of 3/8 of an inch. That hole represents the bulk of the restriction on the pump. The difference between 3/4 to 1 inch line would be very minute then. Remember that a penductor will reduce the amount of flow going through the pump considerably. For example, your pump may flow around 1000 gph w/o eductors, and maybe around 400 gph with. The eductor turns that 400 gph of flow into 2000 gph of in-tank flow!
Once you start going with a lower pressure pump then an Iwaki 55 or a Mak4 the eductors don't work as well. They still work, but their spray pattern is not as wide. The bigger the pump you put behind them the larger the spray pattern, the actual vellocity does not go up considerably. In other words, it just gets better and better!
Also, there is a way to use loc-line with eductors. I can't find the pic, but you need a 3/4 FPT. You need two 3/4 loc-line to 3/4 MPT adapters and you need one loc-line adapter that joins the two of them together.
Once you start going with a lower pressure pump then an Iwaki 55 or a Mak4 the eductors don't work as well. They still work, but their spray pattern is not as wide. The bigger the pump you put behind them the larger the spray pattern, the actual vellocity does not go up considerably. In other words, it just gets better and better!
Also, there is a way to use loc-line with eductors. I can't find the pic, but you need a 3/4 FPT. You need two 3/4 loc-line to 3/4 MPT adapters and you need one loc-line adapter that joins the two of them together.
LittleBlueGT
New member
weatherson
Premium Member
littlesilvermax: Excellent and thanks for the link. That component will do the trick perfectly and thank goodness it's not only available in the orange color.
Regarding the 3/4 or 1" line statements, I would still recommend 1" in that the flow restriction is still going to be less regardless of the upstream restrictive eductor nozzle. He was inquiring as to the whole plumbing recommendation and for this, 1" couplers (90-degree and such) will provide more overall flow. I say this with my desire to always attempt to achieve the greatest amount of efficiency. Thanks again for your input.
Joseph
Regarding the 3/4 or 1" line statements, I would still recommend 1" in that the flow restriction is still going to be less regardless of the upstream restrictive eductor nozzle. He was inquiring as to the whole plumbing recommendation and for this, 1" couplers (90-degree and such) will provide more overall flow. I say this with my desire to always attempt to achieve the greatest amount of efficiency. Thanks again for your input.
Joseph
LittleBlueGT
New member
Weatherson you are absolutely correct. Going bigger is always better when it comes to flow. Because of possible changes to our system it is always best to use the largest diameter piping available that fits. I was just saying that for those of us that have smaller pre-existing plumbing, it may not be worth changing everything. But, if you want to maximize everything......
matt & pam
Member
Weatherson,
Your ventilation system of your light housing is intriguing. Do you know the airflow rate of the fans? I'm considering a bathroom exhaust fan rather than PC fans in my hood and wondered if a system like yours would work as well as an exhaust fan. My only heat source for my tank will be lights (750 watts MH + VHO) for a 180 gallon tank.
Thanks.
Your ventilation system of your light housing is intriguing. Do you know the airflow rate of the fans? I'm considering a bathroom exhaust fan rather than PC fans in my hood and wondered if a system like yours would work as well as an exhaust fan. My only heat source for my tank will be lights (750 watts MH + VHO) for a 180 gallon tank.
Thanks.
mylittleocean
Premium Member
I was just going to ask about venting also. How do you remove the heat from the room. I have a similar hood as yours (well its moldeled after yours anyway pics in my gallery) and exhaust it into the attic. I also have a bathroom vent installed (110cfm) and it is not doing the trick. I have a ~240g system, three 400w MH's and the room is 9' x 7'.
Thanks
Thanks
weatherson
Premium Member
matt & pam, mylittleocean: The two fans I am using are rated at 130 CFM each. But, they are in a push/pull configuration with one blowing room air into the light box and the other, at the opposite end, blowing heated air out of the light box. I may, at some point, add a hose on the inlet fan and attach it to the outside wall with a pass through so it pulls outside air in to be sent through the light box and out to the attic. This way, during the summer months, I am not displacing inside conditioned air which will need be replaced by outside, extremely hot air. It often hits over 100-degrees here, days on end. :eek1:
Joseph
Joseph
- Status
