4 returns in a 200 gallon

[Nvrwrkn]

So it's looking like in order to get the flow I'm looking for for a titan build in a 200 gallon with 3/4 locline bulkheads, I'm considering 4 3/4" bulkheads using 4 locline returns. It's been advised to get max flow through the tank through a 3/4" input to the tank I'd need 4 inputs due to max pressure through locline and the fact that most of the reasonably priced DC pumps I was looking at can't handle pressure well.

Originally I wanted to use varios 8 pumps into two, but I'm not getting a good feeling that 2 pumps through 2 3/4 loclines is going to give me good flow and not damage the pumps.

Anyone have an opinion of running 1.25 out of each pump Y'd to (2) 3/4" closer to the 3/4" bulkhead inputs? I'm thinking this may help with head pressure on the pump if I use 1/25 into (2) 3/4" bulkheads per pump into the tank. Hopefully increasing flow with less pressure on each pump.

Anyone?

 

[nereefpat]

Are you not planning on using wavemakers in the display?

You only need to turnover the tank through the sump a few times an hour. 3-5 x volume would only be 600-1000 gph. You shouldn't need 4 returns or return pumps to accomplish this.

 

[mcgyvr]

I think they meant to say Triton..As such they want 10x flow through sump...

Seems silly IMO to knowingly cripple yourself with 3/4 locline on a larger tank...
Why use it?.. Its a known restriction..

 

[Nvrwrkn]

I can't find another method to get directional flow back into the tank without loclines....

Just noticed.... meant Triton method.... thanks mcgyvr. This seems to be the biggest hurdle in a tank of any size is getting to 10x.

I'm still talking with CoralVue about the varios 8 on this, both them and the tank maker since I can't order until I can tell them what I want for returns. Tank maker suggested 3 returns through locline can theoretically give 4k plus flow through the tank, I'd just have to use 4 total 3/4 bulkheads and loclines.

If you know of another method other than locline that can give some kind of directional flow I'm for it. Then I can have them drill the tank larger and the pumps won't be throttled due to small pipe.

 

[Nvrwrkn]

4 returns

 

[Vinny Kreyling]

Eductors will actually increase flow & come right off the end of the pipe.
Then there are Sea Swirls @ 1" maybe even larger I have not checked.

 

[mcgyvr]

Eductors will actually increase flow

Not in anyway thats beneficial to a Triton system as its not increasing flow through the sump with an eductor..


2 x 1" PVC returns should be all one needs for a system of that size....
Then don't put locline on it to avoid that added restriction.. Its the "want" of loclines thats causing the problem.. Locline isn't needed..
But if you really want it then sure so ahead use 4..

 

[nereefpat]

2 x 1" PVC returns should be all one needs for a system of that size

I agree

 

[Kevin Guthrie]

IMO getting good circulation without internal circ pumps is gonna be a handicap.

 

[Nvrwrkn]

So the consensus is to use a 1" bulkhead and exit into tank just from the bulkhead or a street elbow?

I guess the idea of being able to position the return flow anywhere into the tank was a benefit I needed. I had thought best was to angle both slightly and in to keep a decent flow through the bottom of the tank and to hopefully give some ability to prevent sandstorms via positioning.

So there are those that blast full frontal out of the bulkhead basically at the front of the tank?

 

[Nvrwrkn]

And I guess another question is, for everyone not using locline, how do you prevent tank drain back into the sump? Depending on how high they drill the returns I could have quite a bit of drainback into the sump with an open bulkhead or just PVC

 

[mcgyvr]

Anti-siphon holes are commonly used..
Or having the returns at/very near the surface..

How were you planning on accounting for it with locline? Should likely be the same solution..

Flow in a tank should really be handled with powerheads.. Return pump flow is never enough on its own..
Typically return pump flow is 3-10x.. Total flow in a tank should be in the 30x+ range..so powerheads contribute to flow in a tank far more than return.

And yes.. A street elbow or whatever is all you need..

 

[Nvrwrkn]

Anti-siphon holes are commonly used..
Or having the returns at/very near the surface..

How were you planning on accounting for it with locline? Should likely be the same solution..

Flow in a tank should really be handled with powerheads.. Return pump flow is never enough on its own..
Typically return pump flow is 3-10x.. Total flow in a tank should be in the 30x+ range..so powerheads contribute to flow in a tank far more than return.

And yes.. A street elbow or whatever is all you need..

Well the concern I had with something like a street is once it's drilled and set in the wall you're kind of fixed between depth of flow under the surface and direction of flow. I'd have to rotate it to keep it from pulling in air and it can only be so deep below the surface while the direction is limited. With the 3/4" device from CA it's actually a modified locline system with an antisiphon valve on top (likely just holes like you say with a cover on top to stop spray) but the benefit is infinite direction at any depth under the surface.

I'm just looking to get Triton's suggested 10x return flow now, handling internal turnover is a breeze compared to this.

With the locline it was suggested to drill and set 4 3/4" anti siphon returns to gain flow desired.

At this point it seems the easiest solution so long as splitting one return to two yields enough value in less restriction that I can go with the original pump, varios 8.

If 4 total returns at 3/4 allows for 2k return flow then I can have 2 on each side, each pump flowing to 1 on each side in the event a pump dies I still have decent distribution of return flow in the tank,

If I can get 1" to 3/4 bulkheads that could be a short and long term solution as well. Drill 2 1" returns, get (2) 1" to 3/4 bulkheads and temporarily use their devices until a more suitable alternative allows for direction control as well as some level of siphon protection.

 

[Nvrwrkn]

So I found a sch 80 reducer bushing that could take me down to 3/4 from basically anything, 1.25 or 1" down to 3/4. This way at least I can get the tank started, know that if necessary to can temporarily use their locline device as the tank cycles and keep searching for a reliable way to get a larger return into the tank and still have some level of antisiphon and directional ability without the output being 2 or 3 pvc pieces distracting the view.

 

[biecacka]

Get a bigger pump and ditch the locline. Or just a bigger pump would work.

Corey

 

[Nvrwrkn]

Get a bigger pump and ditch the locline. Or just a bigger pump would work.

Corey

If I could see a way to have some ability to direct flow in the tank while having some antisiphon ability I'd be all for it. From what the tank mfg advised, which I haven't checked to see the numbers on myself, locline is rated up to a max of 1100 gph without element clamps. That puts it basically at max pressure to get the flow I needed even with a well matched pump.

If you have any pics of what a well designed return system looks like on on inside of the tank without locline I'd adopt the method and get moving.

Barring a decent alternative to locline I'm leaning towards a 1 or 1.25 bulkhead drillout and using step down bushings with the locline until I see something viable to using locline that I can change flow direction without changing output depth and siphon characteristics.

Has to be something out there.

 

[biecacka]

I use locline. It’s okay. In the past I have used 90° elbows and been able to push more flow and it is broader. That’s all I’m thinking.

Corey

 

[username in use]

If I could see a way to have some ability to direct flow in the tank

I think this is such a minimal concern with the return considering you are going to be having powerheads in there doing more than enough mixing and churning. I really wouldn't lose any sleep over direction of return flow once you put powerheads into the mix.

 

[sfdan]

Just as an anecdote about loc-line vs PVC, in my setup I had my return pump, a fluval SP6, going through 1" PVC to a 1" bulkhead and then to a PVC output bar. The output bar used to have 2 3/4" threaded outputs that went to loc-line. I could push about ~800 gph through that. When I replaced the output bar instead with just 2 1" pvc outputs, I got ~1100 gph of flow through it. So I can tell you from personal experience that 3/4" loc-line adds a significant amount of head, and if your goal is to push tons of water you are really better off not using it. And you can also direct the water flow with PVC as well, just design your plumbing to point whatever direction you want at whatever depth you want. Loc-line is really going to cost you a ton of money in electricity and pump equipment for a level of customization you don't really need. Pick a good direction for your return flow and then just leave it be. If you want it to be black just spray paint it black.

And as for anti-siphon holes, make sure to do more than one. I have my return plumbing fairly deep under the water but I also have like 5 anti-siphon holes per return, going around the PVC pipe in a circle. You never know when a snail is going to be blocking one or more of them. And of course the power outage is going to happen at the worst possible moments (like for me when I was on vacation), so you want to be confident that you won't come home to a giant pool of water and a dead tank because you didn't drill enough anti-siphon holes in your plumbing.

 

[pisces 12]

My tank is a 265gl, 7ft long i have 2 corner overflow boxs with 2 1in pipes each my return is 3/4 in returns pvc and lockline attachments 2 , and on either end 3/4 IN pvc with inducters but my pump that runs the whole system including skimmer carbon , GFO reactors is a reeflow barrcuder rated at i believe is somewhere in the neighborhood of 4600gals hr runs everything