415 custom in-wall

[Patrick12]

I think what searobin is getting at is how people.....not all of you, but the ones who have not seen the tank, or know the owner.........are commenting based on the posts of others. Each side is going to post the way they see things. For awhile there, many thought that there was just a slight 1/4 inch grade from one end of the tank to another. My understanding of the situation is that 20 inches of the tank was basically not supported. There is in fact no difference between a 1/4 inch gap and a 3 foot gap between the tank and the stand support. If there was 1/4 of an inch gap between the tank and the foam/stand, then that would certainly result in a contributing factor. It equally amounts to the tank being not supported and increases stress. But again, whether that is the case or not this whole issue should have been resolved between Sean and Vince BEFORE this thread was "updated" with the info it was. It is fine to say that you need emergency help or call folks. I am quite certain the other posts not related to needing help are the issue. Surely, if you need 911 help, your first action isn't to go post on a thread......is it? Even calling 911 is faster than what you would expect from a post on a reef thread. If Vince had waited until all the dust had been settled and Sean had even had a chance to get to Richmond....I promise you it would have gone better. Sean got a little bent about the whole thing as reputation is everything and he had his put on the line before he even got to Vince's.

My only purpose in posting is to show that Sean does do good work and that he is a reputable person and craftsman. He in no way has asked me to post for him. He is actually quite bothered by the whole thing. I really should not comment on the tank......as should anyone else.......I just was doing it because everyone else who has not seen the tank seems to post and have an opinion. And, I hate to see someone who is a good guy and honest....get thrown under a bus and regarded as a swindler.....because he is not.

That is really all. I have no specific facts about the tank. I live in Japan. The only info I am sure of is that Sean is a solid guy. Anthony Calfo has bought several tanks from Sean and he too is quite happy with them. I only mention it because he knows a thing or two about tanks and quality work.

 

[Justin1989]

Seans reputation is still in standing. I am not saying he may do bad work. I do not know what contact between him and Vince has gone on after the rest of the tanks breakdown. I have not seen the tank, however theres are a few people here talking about seeing the tank, and also the person who built the tank. I do not need to see a tank in order to say something is wrong. If I buy something that big, costing me that much money; you can sure as hell gurantee I would put it up on a thread like this. If those seams are that bad, then there is something wrong yes. They should of never been like that in the first place.

You are also not taking something into consideration. When the gap was measured, the tank was empty. Therefor 1/20th of the weight that was actually there pressing down. So maybe this 1/4th gap didn't even exist when the tank was full. There wasn't a 1/4" gap between the tank and foam from my understandings. The weight of that tank would highly tighten down any gaps. This is where the issue is, because the tank can no longer be filled.

No one here is calling Sean a swindler. However I agree the entire tank should be getting replaced no questions asked.

 

[john rochon]

excuse me but solid guys and good companys make mistakes! its how they handle them that counts. vince would not have had to sound off if he agreed with the outcome. he's had both acrylic workers and wood workers look at the setup so there in itself is enough to post his unhappiness. thats ALOT of $$$ and heartache.

 

[phurst]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14967712#post14967712 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Patrick12
But again, whether that is the case or not this whole issue should have been resolved between Sean and Vince BEFORE this thread was "updated" with the info it was.

Are you saying I shouldn't have updated this thread when the tank burst? This thread is ABOUT the tank. Of course I'm going to update it if the freaking tank breaks.

If you go back and review this thread and the SOS thread, you'll see that absolutely nothing negative was posted until after Sean made his visit. And things didn't really turn until the entire bottom panel fell out.

It is fine to say that you need emergency help or call folks. Surely, if you need 911 help, your first action isn't to go post on a thread......is it? Even calling 911 is faster than what you would expect from a post on a reef thread.

Calls were definitely made, but the post resulted in 4 locals showing up within 20 minutes to help. Pretty decent response if you ask me.

If Vince had waited until all the dust had been settled and Sean had even had a chance to get to Richmond....I promise you it would have gone better.

Sean was bent out of shape because I posted that the tank failed? Maybe he wasn't surprised....

 

[Patrick12]

Phurst, maybe you didn't say anything that you perceive as negative, but plenty of others did. Start at the beginning and you will see that.

Also, I am exactly saying that you should not have updated the thread when the tank burst until after all had been resolved......for the simple fact that you then allow others who have no true info to go off half cocked like they did.

My peace about Sean has been said. I really have nothing else to say about the tank. If you pursue legal action then the proof will be in the outcome. I only wish things had gone better all the way around. I am truly sorry for everyone involved. I am happy that you guys were able to save all the livestock. It was a very nice looking setup.

Best of luck to you all. I certainly have no ill feelings towards any of you. Just don't want the wrong idea about Sean going unchecked. Many will read this thread and I know Sean to be so different in so many ways. He is honorable and does and has honored the mistakes he makes. He must truly feel that this was due to the stand. If not, he'd have copped to replacing the whole tank....no questions asked.

Peace and best wishes.

 

[villious]

When you enter an online forum, you better have a thick skin. Your entering an environent where there are all types of people with all types of opinions. If it bothers people that much....don't log on. With maybe the exception of one poster, I think everyones "opinions" were said very respectully and politly.

 

[Justin1989]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14968116#post14968116 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Patrick12
Phurst, maybe you didn't say anything that you perceive as negative, but plenty of others did. Start at the beginning and you will see that.

Also, I am exactly saying that you should not have updated the thread when the tank burst until after all had been resolved......for the simple fact that you then allow others who have no true info to go off half cocked like they did.

My peace about Sean has been said. I really have nothing else to say about the tank. If you pursue legal action then the proof will be in the outcome. I only wish things had gone better all the way around. I am truly sorry for everyone involved. I am happy that you guys were able to save all the livestock. It was a very nice looking setup.

Best of luck to you all. I certainly have no ill feelings towards any of you. Just don't want the wrong idea about Sean going unchecked. Many will read this thread and I know Sean to be so different in so many ways. He is honorable and does and has honored the mistakes he makes. He must truly feel that this was due to the stand. If not, he'd have copped to replacing the whole tank....no questions asked.

Peace and best wishes.

you wouldnt of posted about your tank breaking untill you contacted the company? bs. I highly doubt this. I don't think anyone would wait until some one could come out and look at a tank. He didn't even know that the seems were an issue until after he had left. So again he hasnt responded at all since then. so maybe if he looks at the seems then he will accept it and replace the tank. Who knows.

 

[Vince]

This is text of the email I sent to Sean on Sunday after the bottom seams popped and his reply.

Sean,

We had an opportunity to take measurement this morning of the various panels on the tank and in many instances the variances are up 1/4" along the length and widths of the panel. The largest variance being the width of the bottom and top panels. For instance the bottom panel is 36" wide on the ends but 35 11/16ths in the middle; over a 1/4" difference. The length of the bottom panel was 96" on the front edge and 96 1/4" on the rear. With the tank being out of square on a number of panels; many of the panels had to be deflected in and out of square just to bond these seams when it was constructed.

When we talk about the reasons for failure, you have cited variances of 1/8" that in your opinion caused failure when exposed to the pressure of the water volume. With the various panels being of of alignment on a number of planes, greater than this 1/8", it is clear that negligent design and assembly is a more probable cause for the failure. In addition, your position of the out of level stand contributing to the failure would be valid if the affected seam was on the lower side of the stand. In this case the seam that failed was at the high end which would have been under less psi load that the lower side. It is because of this that does not make this position valid.

In addition, when examining the failed and unfailed seams. There is evidence of poor solvent welds taking place. With the understanding a properly solvent welded joint will be stronger than the surrounding acrylic. A failure of a propery sealed seam should show evidence of the acrylic material being damaged in the seperation. In this case the seams are seperating clean and the remaining surfaces are very clean and smooth.

Based on the evidence we have gathered; normal operating pressures on deflected surfaces combined with poor solvent welds is the cause of the failure.

While we could opine about the causes of failure ad nauseum; I am making a very clear business proposition to you to resolve this issue. Both you and I understand that if this would go to litigation, the cost of attorney fees (in addition to the value of your time to attend to such in the Richmond jursidiction) would clearly exceed the cost of a replacement tank. I believe that in this case there is solid and tangible evidence that points to manufacturing issues that contributed to the failure of the tank.

As such it is my request that you agree to replace the tank with a like kind and quality replacement at no additional cost to me.

I do not wish for either of us to spend substantial sums of money trying to refute facts when the remedy I am requesting would be of a lower total cost for either one of us. That being said; I am willing to invest the time and money neccesary to indemnify me for my loss caused by negligent design and construction of this tank.

I look forward to hearing your position regarding this remedy at your earliest opportunity.

Vince Magno


His reply

Vince,

As we had determined when we visited, the gap between the tank and the stand due to the valley in the stand was the source of the break. Per our warranty, we can not replace tank that is deemed improperly installed. Further more, replacing any aquarium is at our desecration, and by your accepting delivery of this aquarium, you agreed to these terms.

Im truly sorry you had issues, but from what we understand, you also had 2 prior aquariums fail. Doesn't this strike you as odd? Maybe its time you looked into the source of these problems instead of blaming others.

I wish you the best of luck, unfortunately, we can no longer offer to pay for half of the aquarium. If you would like a new one, we will be happy to build you a new, it will be at full price as our hospitality to date has only been rewarded with online slander.

Thank you
Sean
SP Aquatics LLC



-

 

[john rochon]

has there been 3 tank failures? on the same stand? from different companys and makes?+

 

[Justin1989]

This is where, he receives a bad reputation. Sucks for you sean, big time.

You see in common court cases you must have proof to backup what you are stating. Now, in order for you to prove yourself innocent you must prove the seem broke within that 20" gap of a 1/4 of an inch. Did you take pictures of this? I bet you didn't Sean.

Vince, like I said hopefully you have taken many pictures. Get a lawyer, and get your tank fixed. Tell the lawyer you are wanting to be paid in full for the tank, lawyer fees, and any other losses you have come by for a faulty tank. Take pictures of the stand, keep the stand in perfect condition. Measure the stand with a level and take pictures to show the stand it perfectly level. This again, will prove this is not your fault. If your stand is completely level, the only way the tank will be unlevel is if the tank is faulty. This is a very simple court case, with big losses for SP aquatics and Sean being held highly responsible.

take pictures of the tank, show that the dimensions of the tank were faulty.


Good luck Sean, your gonna need it on this one.

 

[phurst]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14969231#post14969231 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by john rochon
has there been 3 tank failures? on the same stand? from different companys and makes?+

Yes, there have been 3 failures. The first was the 650 mentioned elsewhere in this thread. it failed after a month, was replaced by the manufacturer and ran fine for many years. the second was a commercial 220 on a commercial stand. the tank was purchased used and had a slow weeping leak from the day it was set up. The tank stayed up only long enough for Sean to build the current tank. The 650 (both) was on a custom stand, the 220 was on a commercial stand, and Sean's 415 was on a brand new, custom built stand.

Yes, 3 failures, but it isn't how Sean makes it sound.

 

[searobin]

"and SEAROBIN,, with 3 posts you don;'t hold much water here,
maybe seans is asking customers to register here and comment which isn't right"
And there you go. Predictable. You said you stated your opinion, that's all I did. I generally read here, that's why I don't have a cool 1965 post such as yourself. I come here for knowledge from others about a hobby I enjoy. FYI, been a member since 2/07. The guy did not ask me to do a thing. That statement is what I'm talking about. I guess I need to post more to have a valuable opinion.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

Wow, this is actually getting me all worked up. I can't even imagine how Vince feels.

Sean is digging his own grave as far as I'm concerned. Sooo much easier and cost effective to just make a new tank. He will lose thousands in lost business and court fees. Regardless of the outcome.

 

[aaron1987]

A large custom tank is still several years down the road for me but this thread is certainly an eye-opener to have both the tank and stand constructed by companies with rock-solid reputations and excellent customer support. Everyone loses in a situation like this.

 

[runningstix]

taken from their own website:

"SP Aquatics pushes for individuals to become more active in their local aquarium community through local organizations such as reef clubs. The sharing of experience good and bad helps others who may not have the same experience. We are the proud sponsor of several Virginia Reef clubs as well as the sponsor for several online reef forums.

Many things have changed, but one thing remains the same, SP Aquatics only does it for the improvement of the hobby. We are enthusiasts in the truest sense, businessmen second."

Sean, here is your bad experience. How you responded was a failure, no negative comments were made about this til you decided the best you could do was half of a new tank. Maybe you should go back to building sumps in your garage. And as a hobbyist (not the owner) how would you feel if your dream tank broke and realized you got a faulty tank.

To those shifting blame saying sean would have been more helpful had the owners friend not posted this on the internet, this is the 21st century, When you tick someone off 20 million of your closest friends now know how you as a business jaded me as a consumer. The power of the internet is a useful thing, had he came to the scene and replaced the tank free of charge this whole community would have seen the customer service and would have positive word of mouth advertising. write it off and give him a new tank. You chose an alternate route which probably just burnt your business. Where is your #1 source of potential clients? REEF CENTRAL.

If I was Vince I wouldnt accept a replacement tank after his last email. I would seek a 100% refund + damages.

 

[Patrick12]

I didn't even know about the 2 OTHER TANK failures.......that had nothing to do with SP Aquatics.

Sounds like big tanks aren't your thing.

And Justin1989, no I would not run to RC or any forum and start posting about problems I was having, BEFORE a remedy had been even discussed. If I felt I had been cheated......then I might have posted something about it......but many posts went up before Sean and Vince even spoke. phurst and Vince have at least been civil in their posts and at least post what they perceive to be the facts....and they have been a part of the situation. It is all the other drama queens that have helped make this contentious.

I will be interested in the final outcome.......and will be glad that cooler heads than here.....and hopefully heads with more in them........ knowledge wise.....of the situation... will decide.

 

[Patrick12]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14970339#post14970339 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by aaron1987
A large custom tank is still several years down the road for me but this thread is certainly an eye-opener to have both the tank and stand constructed by companies with rock-solid reputations and excellent customer support. Everyone loses in a situation like this.

Don't let this throw you. Sean has made several large tanks that have no issues whatsoever. Sean has even helped repair tanks that have been damaged by the owners at no cost to them, regardless of the fact that he did not have to.

Remember that just because there are bad businesses, does not negate that thee are bad customers too. Not saying Vince is one of them, as I do not know him. Time and apparently a SSC date will determine that. But, don't go throwing a company away that has made hundreds of aquariums with no major issues because one person has a bad outcome......for what seems to be the third time now. A fact that will surely play well in front of Judge Judy.

 

[phurst]

Did you read my explanation of the other 2 tank failues? They're totaly unrelated to this situation.

 

[Justin1989]

And Justin1989, no I would not run to RC or any forum and start posting about problems I was having, BEFORE a remedy had been even discussed. If I felt I had been cheated......then I might have posted something about it......but many posts went up before Sean and Vince even spoke. phurst and Vince have at least been civil in their posts and at least post what they perceive to be the facts....and they have been a part of the situation. It is all the other drama queens that have helped make this contentious.

He did not say one thing bad about the tank. So I don't see where your coming from. If my tank failed, I would of come to the forums and posted that it failed. it is an update on the tank. So I don't see your point here at all. They nnever stated anything until after sean said he would only allow payment for 1/2.

 

[Justin1989]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14970736#post14970736 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phurst
Did you read my explanation of the other 2 tank failues? They're totaly unrelated to this situation.

I think he did. i mean, by your posts here and date registered its obvious you have no idea what your doing! :rollface: