For a shallow sandbed you're exactly correct. However, for a functioning deep sand bed you do not want to, nor should you really have to disturb it, siphon it, etc. Keeping the bed inoculated with life and protecting that micro and macro fauna by not adding certain types of fish and inverts will keep you from having the need to do any of that.
6 year old DSB in an SPS tank you wont believe your eyes
- Thread starter trueblackpercula
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For a shallow sandbed you're exactly correct. However, for a functioning deep sand bed you do not want to, nor should you really have to disturb it, siphon it, etc. Keeping the bed inoculated with life and protecting that micro and macro fauna by not adding certain types of fish and inverts will keep you from having the need to do any of that.
S2minute
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6 year old DSB in an SPS tank you wont believe your eyes
It may well have been the worst advice...for YOU. It ALL depends on where your "sandbed" is located,how deep it isn't, what type of substrate your using and how much you feed etc, etc...
The fact is that at 1" of depth, it's not a DSB at all. SO, whoever gave you that advice must not have known that was only 1". A 1" sand bed serves different functions in addition and should be managed for that. So yeah, with a 1" "sand bed" you would stir it, keep sand sifters for it and clean it. Esp. since it's in your DT where you directly feed. That's why i feel that if your going to have a DSB, locate it somewhere other than your DT for one thing. :deadhorse:
It may well have been the worst advice...for YOU. It ALL depends on where your "sandbed" is located,how deep it isn't, what type of substrate your using and how much you feed etc, etc...
The fact is that at 1" of depth, it's not a DSB at all. SO, whoever gave you that advice must not have known that was only 1". A 1" sand bed serves different functions in addition and should be managed for that. So yeah, with a 1" "sand bed" you would stir it, keep sand sifters for it and clean it. Esp. since it's in your DT where you directly feed. That's why i feel that if your going to have a DSB, locate it somewhere other than your DT for one thing. :deadhorse:
S2minute
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6 year old DSB in an SPS tank you wont believe your eyes
Don't bother with that calling crap Jer! :sad2: Just get that booklet. It's worth it's weight in GOLD. See if you can track down that "South Down" play sand too.
It's most likely sold under a different name now though. That is exactly the type of substrate you need for a properly functioning DSB :thumbsup:
Don't bother with that calling crap Jer! :sad2: Just get that booklet. It's worth it's weight in GOLD. See if you can track down that "South Down" play sand too.
It's most likely sold under a different name now though. That is exactly the type of substrate you need for a properly functioning DSB :thumbsup:
Oh I have the booklet, and still used DSB's in my personal systems to this day. :thumbsup: Ron used to buy a lot of things from us back around 2000 - 2002/3 or so. He used to love our grunge / crud that we sell out of our rock pools. We used to bring in Southdown Sand by the pallets. Then when that source dried up in '02 we started bringing in the "Pure Caribbean Aragonite" which was the exact same sand and that sold well until about 2005/6 when going bare bottom took over.
S2minute
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6 year old DSB in an SPS tank you wont believe your eyes Reply to Thread
6 year old DSB in an SPS tank you wont believe your eyes Reply to Thread
Your rock pools??? Who is "we"? lol Just how big an operation do you have?
6 year old DSB in an SPS tank you wont believe your eyes Reply to Thread
Your rock pools??? Who is "we"? lol Just how big an operation do you have?
PremiumAquatics.com We've been selling liverock (and of course drygoods and other items online) since '96. We have 5000+ gallons of water that hold our rock that we running 400w halides on, commercial skimmer, kalk and calcium reactors, and a lot of water flow. Three of these pools have been set up since '96, and the other two have been up since 2005, with zero to hardly detectable NO3 in the system. The pools have essentially created their own DSB's over time from all of the rock that has been brought in and out of them with the sand and silt. We can put 2500 - 3000lbs of fresh uncured rock in at a time without seeing any increase of Ammonia or NO3 within the systems. The beds get re-inoculated with life every time we bring a new shipment into that specific pool, and they're EXTREMELY lively, which makes a world of difference in how that DSB functions. Here is a pic of the pools:
S2minute
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6 year old DSB in an SPS tank you wont believe your eyes Reply to Thread
6 year old DSB in an SPS tank you wont believe your eyes Reply to Thread
LOL, omg i know who you are now
i deal with you often. Nice setup man. Very impressive. Next time we talk, I'll remind you of this thread heh :beer: . Wow, small world man.
6 year old DSB in an SPS tank you wont believe your eyes Reply to Thread
LOL, omg i know who you are now
i deal with you often. Nice setup man. Very impressive. Next time we talk, I'll remind you of this thread heh :beer: . Wow, small world man.
xtm
Active member
Michael, I have ran different sandbeds for more than 15 years and this is what I've always done (vacuuming). However, after a year or so, I am always back to square one because if you don't keep this up, the sandbed will collect junk faster than you can keep up. All those years I've struggled with dirty water, algae, and detritus... all that stopped when I removed all the sand entirely, but that's for another thread. Just keep vacuuming that crud and you're golden!
EDIT: Just read page 4.. sorry, didn't know you hated bb. I won't mention it
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S2minute
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6 year old DSB in an SPS tank you wont believe your eyes Reply to Thread
6 year old DSB in an SPS tank you wont believe your eyes Reply to Thread
Michael...JUST get the book "Sand Bed Secrets" by Rom Shimek. Read it and follow the guidelines in that book to properly set up a DSB. Construct it properly and manage it according to the guidelines outlined in that booklet and you'll have a successful DSB period. People will beat this thing in the head because they did it wrong and just won't listen so there really is not much more to say. Either do it wrong and work yourself to death over it or do it right...and do nothing but enjoy it.
6 year old DSB in an SPS tank you wont believe your eyes Reply to Thread
Michael, I have ran different sandbeds for more than 15 years and this is what I've always done (vacuuming). However, after a year or so, I am always back to square one because if you don't keep this up, the sandbed will collect junk faster than you can keep up. All those years I've struggled with dirty water, algae, and detritus... all that stopped when I removed all the sand entirely, but that's for another thread. Just keep vacuuming that crud and you're golden!
EDIT: Just read page 4.. sorry, didn't know you hated bb. I won't mention it
Michael...JUST get the book "Sand Bed Secrets" by Rom Shimek. Read it and follow the guidelines in that book to properly set up a DSB. Construct it properly and manage it according to the guidelines outlined in that booklet and you'll have a successful DSB period. People will beat this thing in the head because they did it wrong and just won't listen so there really is not much more to say. Either do it wrong and work yourself to death over it or do it right...and do nothing but enjoy it.
trueblackpercula
New member
Well thank you very much for the advice, I have had his book for years and tried following it as best as I could but some how went wrong after 6 years. I am in a much better place right now as my sand bed looks better after the cleaning and addition of Pappone food. The key to maintaining is not only the grain size but the life that lives in it. Once it gets starved and dies so does the sand-bed......I have learned this the hard way and Hope others understand that how a DSB works.
I have added also bio digest and it seems to be working very well for me at this time. As of today I still do not have any red Cyno bacteria but I will say i still have brown diatom algae. Its not out of control and seems to be at a minimum on the sand bed but its under control at this time.
I have been noticing that after all the cleaning and sand bed movement my PO4 has spiked to 0.03 and my nitrates are about 2 I have been controlling it by doing water changes at 6 gallons every Sunday.
Michael
This one? Look at how many times its been read Lol
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reefmutt
Active member
Micheal, you say you po4 has 'spiked' at .03.. Forgive my memory, where was it before all the sandbed changing?
To me, .03 is pretty darn good.. And no3 at 2 ain't so bad either, although it's seems on the high side for a sand bed.. I assume it'll drop as the bed matures..
For sps, I like those numbers..
I guess with the corals getting pappone frequently, you could have those numbers lower but I wouldn't go crazy trying to lower them - it doesn't seem worth it, to me..
To me, .03 is pretty darn good.. And no3 at 2 ain't so bad either, although it's seems on the high side for a sand bed.. I assume it'll drop as the bed matures..
For sps, I like those numbers..
I guess with the corals getting pappone frequently, you could have those numbers lower but I wouldn't go crazy trying to lower them - it doesn't seem worth it, to me..
trueblackpercula
New member
Michael, I have ran different sandbeds for more than 15 years and this is what I've always done (vacuuming). However, after a year or so, I am always back to square one because if you don't keep this up, the sandbed will collect junk faster than you can keep up. All those years I've struggled with dirty water, algae, and detritus... all that stopped when I removed all the sand entirely, but that's for another thread. Just keep vacuuming that crud and you're golden!
EDIT: Just read page 4.. sorry, didn't know you hated bb. I won't mention it
Lol I don't hate Bare-bottom tanks at all. The problem was I really was new and listened to a lot of people around here that gave bad advice that I took.
One needs to understand how a BB works and in my case it was too late and I already had added the sand -bed like all the rest of my tanks over the past 20 plus years.
I was intrigued and amazed at how the BB tanks around here look 7 years ago, so I plunged right in and BAM my SPS collection withered away right in front of my eyes because they were staved.
I also went through AEFW and RED bugs all at the same time. It was like one nightmare after another.
Barebottom Tanks have transformed these days and most add RDSB to compensate for the ULNS they keep. If I had Known and starting feeding Pappone back then I am so sure I would have had a thriving system with Adding a RDSB.
But Since my tank had a starboard bottom twice the size skimmer and I was carbon dosing and running GFO my tank was so clean that cleaning the glass once a week was not even needed. Then came the dosing of Amino acids,zeo products and a host of other things I lost track. But in the end I learned a lot and I like the look of the Bare-bottom and would do it again just not going to tear down my tank, Well not this week anyways LOl
If I can't solve my dsb issues then I will have No choice but to tear down the tank and start over. But as of today my SPS look good and I seem to be getting the upper hand.
Enjoy the picture as its all that is left after the tank crash.
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trueblackpercula
New member
Yes the numbers really are not bad And to be honest my sps haven't looked this good since I purchased them LOL.
I also agree with you that the sand-bed needs to mature and will take care of the Nirates. My PO4 as always been around 0.01 - 0.03 max and my nitrates have always been undetectable until now.
Also Take a look at this picture I just took of the sand-bed. You can see an amazing amount of tube worms starting to repopulate. Its funny when i feed pappone they all come out and stretch looking for food.
Don't get me wrong I dont want to give the wrong idea that pappone is for everyone,my tank still needs some loving as I am still playing around with the lighting to get the best possible colors I can from My sps and My water quality could be better. What i mean by this as its almost time for new RO/DI FILTERS AND RESIGNS.
By the way would like to see pictures of your BB tank as the ones i followed are all gone or have been banded fro RC because of the BB vs DSB debates. I survived though
trueblackpercula
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trueblackpercula
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joekidwell
New member
My 50 lb dsb has been in my sump for a year now it's about 6" deep, my display is bare bottom. Recently I've Gone sps crazy so now I'm wondering what I should do. Remove it or leave it?
trueblackpercula
New member
My 50 lb dsb has been in my sump for a year now it's about 6" deep, my display is bare bottom. Recently I've Gone sps crazy so now I'm wondering what I should do. Remove it or leave it?
So can I ask why you would remove it? What is your nitrates and po4 readings? Your DSB looks healthy.
joekidwell
New member
Po4 is showing 0 but I have a ton of macro. Corals have growth rings and color is great. I just didn't know if I was going to have problems down the road.
