6 year old DSB in an SPS tank you wont believe your eyes

[Tek]

Using a hydrometer? Maybe salinity is off?

 

[watchguy123]

Your documentation and sharing has been extraordinary

The sheet rock issue is awful because I imagine it is hard to assess how much has really fallen into the tank or not. Additionally, wet sheet rock is stinky, messy and requires a fix both to repair and prevent a continuation of the problem.

You are at one of those really tough forks in the road. If you try to fix too much, too fast, it may be just as difficult on your tank as going slow. All I know is nothing good happens fast in a reef tank (not my quote but everyone has heard it). Time to take a big breath and really consider best approach. I have done "fix it all, right now" approach on a troubled tank before and it went poorly. Going slow means that you are likely to see negative effects continue for a while before they turn around. Unless of course, you have determined the exact causes and zeroed in on the correct solution for each

If you are going to replace sand, something I have never done, perhaps you should use biggles technique--it sounds like a great technique

Unfortunately, I am neither wise enough nor experienced enough to have sage advice for your tank. I do want you to know sharing all your information and efforts has helped stimulate me to think and rethink what I am doing in my tank

 

[scrapz]

A fork tied above a flex hose 1-2" works wonders for cleaning sand beds.. Every time you do a water change, just rake your sand and remove all that gunk

 

[trueblackpercula]

Using a hydrometer? Maybe salinity is off?

Using two of them and get 1.025 to 1.026 sometimes it gets lower after adding top off water and sometimes it goes a little higher when top off water is needed. Why? Does high salinity cause red cyno?
Michael

 

[reefmutt]

Cyano SUCKS!!!
Any contractor will tell you that the perfect recipe for mold is moisture and sheet rock. I'm sure (in a non professional sort of a way) that sheet rock dust is an organic food source for cyano but I doubt that it is the total cause of your cyano..
I'm also sure that wether it's the cyano in your tank or the potential mould in your house, the old sheet rock should go..
As for sand, I like the wet product because it seems to set up denitrification more quickly than the dry product- this from my own experience.. I've always used a smaller grain size, like that of the aragonite special grade reef sand..
You know my stance on old sand.... I'd remove all the old stuff before throwing new sand down.. I wouldn't want to trap old sand underneath new stuff..
Your nutrient levels are pretty under control... I'd wait on the chemiclean.. Do your major changes, let the tank settle down for 4-6weeks and see where the cyano is.. If it's still out of control and your n and p are still IN control, then revisit nuking the cyano..
This is how I would tell somebody to do it...... Not sure I would have the patience, myself...

 

[trueblackpercula]

Cyano SUCKS!!!
Any contractor will tell you that the perfect recipe for mold is moisture and sheet rock. I'm sure (in a non professional sort of a way) that sheet rock dust is an organic food source for cyano but I doubt that it is the total cause of your cyano..

well thank you for the advice and assistance as I will be fixing the sheet rock this weekend. but first i need to get a piece of glass cut 24" x 2" wide and then I can seal the wall with new joint compound and paint. it has to be done correctly so it does not leave room for doubt later

As for sand, I like the wet product because it seems to set up denitrification more quickly than the dry product- this from my own experience.. I've always used a smaller grain size, like that of the aragonite special grade reef sand..

got a link please ?

You know my stance on old sand.... I'd remove all the old stuff before throwing new sand down.. I wouldn't want to trap old sand underneath new stuff..

I will take out a good portion but not all of it as there is a lot of good fuana growning in it and it will help sead the new stuff. Hope this does not to come back to bite me in the butt

Your nutrient levels are pretty under control... I'd wait on the chemiclean.. Do your major changes, let the tank settle down for 4-6weeks and see where the cyano is.. If it's still out of control and your n and p are still IN control, then revisit nuking the cyano..

Thanks for the advice and let see how it goes. I do have a new question that just came to me. I have been using rowaphos in small amounts to try and control the algea. But I noticed after reading my notes that since I started using it my SPS have become lighter in color. I also lost two pieces since then, So if my sand bed is keeping the N and P down without it and by using the rowphos could I be stripping the water to clean and this is causing another problem? I removed the bag today and see what happens.

This is how I would tell somebody to do it...... Not sure I would have the patience, myself...

I completly respect your advice and will be cleaning and repairing my sheet rock this weekend.

Michael

 

[suzig]

i dont think the sheet rock is a major contributor here. id say pull the sand completely. pull all the rock, put it in bins/rubbermiads using 50% of the tank water and get all the rock shook up in the bins with power heads to dislodge any detritus in the rock. fill the tank up with 50% new water, BB and toss all the rock/ coral back in. run carbon and get more flow in the tank.

 

[trueblackpercula]

i dont think the sheet rock is a major contributor here. id say pull the sand completely. pull all the rock, put it in bins/rubbermiads using 50% of the tank water and get all the rock shook up in the bins with power heads to dislodge any detritus in the rock. fill the tank up with 50% new water, BB and toss all the rock/ coral back in. run carbon and get more flow in the tank.

Lol that gave me a big laugh as I will not be pulling out all the rock and pulling out all the sand. You do realize that advice would kill everything I have in the tank right? First off killing my sand bed is not something I don't want to do or kill all the good fauna I have going. I will remove a good portion of the sand but the rest will seed the new. Second my Sand bed keeps my nitrate and P04 In Check so if I remove it what will I do to control it? Third I ran a bar bottom tank and it was a constant battle to keep nutrient levels in check to sustain healthy sps. The balancing act was way to much work and requires constant balance. Giving someone advice like that is purely bad advice without telling the person what to do to maintain a completely different approach. Also what will placing all my rocks in a bin do? Remove detritus for a day? Remember po4 is within the rocks and simply adding power heads to get the detritus off the surface does what for me? Thanks for your advice but will pass.

But if I decide to go bare bottom I will redo my entire set up And filtration system as it's easy to say go bare bottom but one does need to know the rules that go with it.

Like cooking your rocks, double the size skimmer,large amounts of flow, filter socks that need cleaning daily, big water changes, etc etc.

Thanks and please don't take my rant as personal it's just that so many are quick to give advice without telling the rest of the story that makes it work.

Thanks

 

[suzig]

i was going to say cook your rocks but i was unsure how many corals you still have alive. if you just did a good size water change once a week and wet skimmed i dont think you would have a problem with nutrients by doing what i said.

i never understand why ppl will battle problems like this for so long. if you got the transition to BB done and over with months ago when your problems started, at this point in time youre tank would more than likely be thriving. sure its a little work at first, but youre looking for long term success. youve been having this problem for a while now.

and rather than spending the money on new sand and what not you could spend it on some powerheads for more flow.

 

[reefmutt]

http://www.caribsea.com/caribsea/itempage_marine_substrates_aragalive.html
The one at the bottom..

Michael, at this point, you must be frustrated as hell with the condition of your tank... Actually, I'm pretty certain you are because mine looks about the same as yours right now and I want to throw a hammer through mine...... But I digress..... If you hope that the old sand won't come back to bite you in the butt, why not be certain that it won't come back to bite you by removing it completely from your system? Now is the time...
I wouldn't worry about loosing the micro fauna, they will grow back and the wet sand is already seeded with bacteria.. However, I understand you wanting to keep some of the old sand for continuity, so if you do keep some, I'd say mix it in with the new sand, don't just put the new sand on top of the old sand. I think you run less risk of smothering the old sand this way..

I'm surprised that while using pappone and rowa your corals are becoming more pale... I would think that with measurable p and the addition of a great food source, the acros would do fine.. But every tank is different.. No harm in removing the rowa and watching what happens, imo..
Btw, enjoy the solitude when the family is away but don't forget to miss them a little as well

 

[trueblackpercula]

i was going to say cook your rocks but i was unsure how many corals you still have alive. if you just did a good size water change once a week and wet skimmed i dont think you would have a problem with nutrients by doing what i said.

i never understand why ppl will battle problems like this for so long. if you got the transition to BB done and over with months ago when your problems started, at this point in time youre tank would more than likely be thriving. sure its a little work at first, but youre looking for long term success. youve been having this problem for a while now.

and rather than spending the money on new sand and what not you could spend it on some powerheads for more flow.

Again what will more flow do for me? Cyno bacteria will grow in high flow medium flow slow flow? I really wish you would not provide advice on going bare bottom anymore to me as I been there and done that. It's not for me and is way to much work for me.

By the way sand is $40 bucks and my mp40 was $450 so you do the math.

 

[trueblackpercula]

http://www.caribsea.com/caribsea/itempage_marine_substrates_aragalive.html
The one at the bottom..

Michael, at this point, you must be frustrated as hell with the condition of your tank... Actually, I'm pretty certain you are because mine looks about the same as yours right now and I want to throw a hammer through mine...... But I digress..... If you hope that the old sand won't come back to bite you in the butt, why not be certain that it won't come back to bite you by removing it completely from your system? Now is the time...
I wouldn't worry about loosing the micro fauna, they will grow back and the wet sand is already seeded with bacteria.. However, I understand you wanting to keep some of the old sand for continuity, so if you do keep some, I'd say mix it in with the new sand, don't just put the new sand on top of the old sand. I think you run less risk of smothering the old sand this way..

I'm surprised that while using pappone and rowa your corals are becoming more pale... I would think that with measurable p and the addition of a great food source, the acros would do fine.. But every tank is different.. No harm in removing the rowa and watching what happens, imo..
Btw, enjoy the solitude when the family is away but don't forget to miss them a little as well

You know that's a great idea remove as much as I can mix the old with the new and enjoy the tank. Sounds like a good weekend to me, by the way it's only the front of the tank affected the back left and right side look great. So I will remove as much as I can from the front and see how that goes. I will post some pictures for all to see. By the way I think I over did it with the GFO as the system is running boarder line ULNSYSTEM but the pappone has made a big difference and most of my sps have improved in color and growth.

Many thanks

 

[reefmutt]

I can't say I disagree with suzig... But I know you are a believer in dsbs, as am I..
There are just as many successful dsb tanks as there are bb tanks so go with what you know..
Too bad you can't put the dsb in a remote location.. This is what I have done and left the tank bb

 

[suzig]

I understand you dont want to have to remove the :LIVE SAND ITS THE CURE........®" plug from your signature, but c'mon. youve had this thread going for how long with no improvements? and now youre going to blame it on some sheetrock?

i dont mean to upset you but this hobby is much more rewarding when the tank looks good. id hate to see anyone who likes having a reef tank deal with dying corals and cyano. you could very well turn your tank around, and you know what has to be done, but ok, you dont want to hear it. you probably dont even have to go BB. but more likely than not a little hiatus of 2-3 months while the rock cooks and you go ahead and set up a SSB could get you back in the game.

 

[trueblackpercula]

I can't say I disagree with suzig... But I know you are a believer in dsbs, as am I..
There are just as many successful dsb tanks as there are bb tanks so go with what you know..
Too bad you can't put the dsb in a remote location.. This is what I have done and left the tank bb

I did mention I have a remote sand bed in my sump that I never removed from when I was running a BB tank. I may remove some of that as well and see how it goes. It's crawling with life and has a good amount of life in there. Will try and snap a picture give me a few..

 

[trueblackpercula]

First of the thread was started 12/21/2013 and I never blamed the sheet rock directly, please read the entire thread then come back and post again. If you continue to antagonize me I will be more then glade to go back at you.
Bare bottom sucks and that's that

 

[suzig]

not going to read the entire thread. i only need first and last page. enjoy your cyano :dance:

 

[trueblackpercula]

Here is a picture of the remote sand bed. It has three different types of sand in it including local sand from Staten Island I collected to add more life and bacteria.

 

[trueblackpercula]

not going to read the entire thread. i only need first and last page. enjoy your cyano :dance:

Thanks

 

[Tek]

Using two of them and get 1.025 to 1.026 sometimes it gets lower after adding top off water and sometimes it goes a little higher when top off water is needed. Why? Does high salinity cause red cyno?
Michael

Oh no I thought you were still having STN issues. I got rid of cyano on my sandbed by siphoning it out. I believe it was from your thread and it has worked wonders in both of my tanks. I haven't seen it return since.