700 gallon tank, or how i spent my daughters inheritance
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chrismunn
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i was all excited when i thought i was going to get to see the inner workings of your surge device h20eng! that link just goes to the archives.
i have flirted with the idea of using electronic valves on my new system, but during testing, i had bad rssults so i decided against it. but if you have them operating smoothly, i want to see! i would stil like to use the electro valves, but im not sure where to find a quality valve? the one i tested with was a lawn irrigation valve which requires a minimum pressure to operate. a pressure at which i couldnt produce using the pumps i have.
will you post a link to info on your surge device and all the guts of the system, pretty please
the whole electro valve situation has actually kepy my up at night!
i have flirted with the idea of using electronic valves on my new system, but during testing, i had bad rssults so i decided against it. but if you have them operating smoothly, i want to see! i would stil like to use the electro valves, but im not sure where to find a quality valve? the one i tested with was a lawn irrigation valve which requires a minimum pressure to operate. a pressure at which i couldnt produce using the pumps i have.
will you post a link to info on your surge device and all the guts of the system, pretty please
the whole electro valve situation has actually kepy my up at night!
Try again. ??
Its really a simple setup, but with unfortunately expensive parts.
The one at the touch pool used 2 seperate (identical) systems. I timed one a little longer, so that eventually they would catch up to each other and when they both fired at once, it almost flooded the large touchpool.
A head tank with emergency standpipe is constantly filled.
A float switch in the tank tells the timer relay its full and ready to dump.
The timer relay fires a solenoid valve allowing air to flow to the 4" valve actuator for the preset time, then it spring closes.
The timer is set to close the valve before the tank completely empties, thus not entraining air and staying almost silent.
At night I shut the system off, and allowed the water to go over the standpipes. The biggest surge of the day was when it first started up- max head, and they both fired
I used the 4" pneumatic butterfly valve since its cycle time was only 2 seconds. Electrics are 1 minute at that size. The 2" ballvalves on the other systems have only a 2-3 second cycle time, and work great.
Any more info, just ask
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9910446#post9910446
Its really a simple setup, but with unfortunately expensive parts.
The one at the touch pool used 2 seperate (identical) systems. I timed one a little longer, so that eventually they would catch up to each other and when they both fired at once, it almost flooded the large touchpool.
A head tank with emergency standpipe is constantly filled.
A float switch in the tank tells the timer relay its full and ready to dump.
The timer relay fires a solenoid valve allowing air to flow to the 4" valve actuator for the preset time, then it spring closes.
The timer is set to close the valve before the tank completely empties, thus not entraining air and staying almost silent.
At night I shut the system off, and allowed the water to go over the standpipes. The biggest surge of the day was when it first started up- max head, and they both fired
I used the 4" pneumatic butterfly valve since its cycle time was only 2 seconds. Electrics are 1 minute at that size. The 2" ballvalves on the other systems have only a 2-3 second cycle time, and work great.
Any more info, just ask
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=9910446#post9910446
mouscacha,
No problem, I laughed like a little kid when I first got it working (after the pucker factor of 10 wore off, dumping 500g at once).
I agree with Jonathan. If you dont run the surge but for a few minutes a day, its not worth it. This one fired evry minute or two.
I really want to try to run a tank on just a closed loop with a 4way, and all return water though a big surge. It'd take a big sump, but otherwise fairly simple.
Carl,
You should have more than enough overflow drain if you wanted to go that route Also, have you talked to Paul at OM lately? Hes got a new machine that is pretty slick, and you've got lots of plumbing holes
No problem, I laughed like a little kid when I first got it working (after the pucker factor of 10 wore off, dumping 500g at once).
I agree with Jonathan. If you dont run the surge but for a few minutes a day, its not worth it. This one fired evry minute or two.
I really want to try to run a tank on just a closed loop with a 4way, and all return water though a big surge. It'd take a big sump, but otherwise fairly simple.
Carl,
You should have more than enough overflow drain if you wanted to go that route
Also, have you talked to Paul at OM lately? Hes got a new machine that is pretty slick, and you've got lots of plumbing holes
Crypsis
yes
<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=12347276#post12347276 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by H20ENG
It has 4 ports, 2 for suction, 2 for discharge. You connect it right to the pump. They alternate so you can push water across the tank and draw it in on the opposite side, then switch it to go the other direction. The size of a beer can
How do you keep the suction screened off if it's also the discharge? I'm sure I'm just not understanding how it works. Sounds like a great idea though.
Merlin
There are 2 suctions, and 2 discharges. They simply alternate so that one suction and one discharge is active at any given time.
So when you plumb it, you run one discharge line to one side and the suction to the other. Then the opposite for the other 2 ports. This way the flow is always traveling across the tank. Plus, its real flow, not simply back and forth movement like from a wavebox.
You only need the screen the suctions.
So when you plumb it, you run one discharge line to one side and the suction to the other. Then the opposite for the other 2 ports. This way the flow is always traveling across the tank. Plus, its real flow, not simply back and forth movement like from a wavebox.
You only need the screen the suctions.
spazz
New member
seeeing there isso much debate going on about my design for the surge tanks on the st judes system i will explain what i did and how i feel it benifits the tank and its inhabitants.
the tanks are designed to run 3-4 hrs in the morning and 3-4 hrs in the evening. they take 1.5 minutes to fill up and it takes 8 seconds to dump. so every 100 seconds the surge tanks fire and blast across the tank. this stirs up the tank and keeps anything from accumulating on the rocks and sand bed. the fish also play in this wave action . the reason the surge tanks do not run all day long is becasue there is 4 tunze streams running 24/7 in the tank too. you can blast away at hte tak all day long becasue the fish will tire out and not have any rest peroids like they do in the reef. the surge tanks are tidal surge tanks to better simulate the real reef and the masive surging that the tides bring to the reef. running them all the time does not simulate the real reef and in my opinion will not do the inhabitants any good. its not simulating the real reef enviorment. my goal with the st judes project was to simulate the real reef as much as possible.
as far as the air operated valves and there reliability goes. this tank has been running for about 6 months. the surges run every day with no problems at all. i used top of the line air valves and trip systems. that way there is no problems with the system for years. and if something does fial there is emergency drains in the tanks to prevent flooding. all the water would just return to the sump.
there is many ways to run a surge system. my way is by no means the right way or the only way. but my system can be adjusted to fit any system including an air injection system if you wanted air bubbles in there to help bring desolved organics to the surface of the tank.
i do know this. if i would have set up the st judes project with aitr bubbles in the water the people who were in charge of the project would have demanded that the bubbles be removed from the water. people like that dont understand that. they just want a beautiful healthy tank.
the tanks are designed to run 3-4 hrs in the morning and 3-4 hrs in the evening. they take 1.5 minutes to fill up and it takes 8 seconds to dump. so every 100 seconds the surge tanks fire and blast across the tank. this stirs up the tank and keeps anything from accumulating on the rocks and sand bed. the fish also play in this wave action . the reason the surge tanks do not run all day long is becasue there is 4 tunze streams running 24/7 in the tank too. you can blast away at hte tak all day long becasue the fish will tire out and not have any rest peroids like they do in the reef. the surge tanks are tidal surge tanks to better simulate the real reef and the masive surging that the tides bring to the reef. running them all the time does not simulate the real reef and in my opinion will not do the inhabitants any good. its not simulating the real reef enviorment. my goal with the st judes project was to simulate the real reef as much as possible.
as far as the air operated valves and there reliability goes. this tank has been running for about 6 months. the surges run every day with no problems at all. i used top of the line air valves and trip systems. that way there is no problems with the system for years. and if something does fial there is emergency drains in the tanks to prevent flooding. all the water would just return to the sump.
there is many ways to run a surge system. my way is by no means the right way or the only way. but my system can be adjusted to fit any system including an air injection system if you wanted air bubbles in there to help bring desolved organics to the surface of the tank.
i do know this. if i would have set up the st judes project with aitr bubbles in the water the people who were in charge of the project would have demanded that the bubbles be removed from the water. people like that dont understand that. they just want a beautiful healthy tank.
jnarowe
New member
Thanks for th explanaton Scott. It had been stated that the surges were fired in the morning and night to simulate tidal action 2 x per day which is clearly not what you are doing at St. Judes. It seems to me that 6 - 8 hours a day is much more realistic use of a surge system and I am keenly interested to see how it works long-term and what if any adjustments you might make based on reef health.
spazz
New member
are you using an internal or external overflow? the dementions yo have listed there dont make alot of sense to em so i need to understand the design a little better before i can comment on the size of the surge tanks you can use and volume of tanks. send me a pm with your email address and i will semd you some diagrams with part numbers and surge tank designs.
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