700 gallon tank, or how i spent my daughters inheritance
- Thread starter Reefski's
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melev
Well-known member
You're having fun with those surges now.
It would be kind of neat to put the food in there so the fish would get a nice surprise when it flushed into the tank.
That acan looks like it is getting hammered. I don't think it would do well there, long term. It is really getting pressed hard in that video.
It would be kind of neat to put the food in there so the fish would get a nice surprise when it flushed into the tank.
That acan looks like it is getting hammered. I don't think it would do well there, long term. It is really getting pressed hard in that video.
techreef
Premium Member
Reefski, unless you pull a Cleveland and figure out how to get water to catch fire, with the sheer volume of water in/under/next to your house it will never burn down! 
It is an interesting point re: the flow not eliminating cyano. Thanks for keeping this great thread updated.
It is an interesting point re: the flow not eliminating cyano. Thanks for keeping this great thread updated.
Reefski's
Active member
i will consider putting the food in the surge or i can just wait until it surges and put the food in the tank then.
eventually stuff will grow in the surges that will get swept into the tank too. there might already be some as the fish will line up in the flow. i haven't seen them catching anything that i can see though.
there will probably be some corals that just don't do well in the surge. hopefully i can find lower flow areas of the tank for them.
the cyano is slowly receeding and the gravel is turning green a bit.
i'll get some pix of the different areas. the shaded areas under the LR have no cyano, even in some lower flow areas but there is cyano is high flow areas too.
i believe it is just part of the natural progression from putting new sand and gravel in. it will take some time to run it's course and be succeeded by other things.
i enjoy taking photos and posting them. it is kind of a record for me as to when stuff happened even though i write events on a calendar.
Carl
eventually stuff will grow in the surges that will get swept into the tank too. there might already be some as the fish will line up in the flow. i haven't seen them catching anything that i can see though.
there will probably be some corals that just don't do well in the surge. hopefully i can find lower flow areas of the tank for them.
the cyano is slowly receeding and the gravel is turning green a bit.
i'll get some pix of the different areas. the shaded areas under the LR have no cyano, even in some lower flow areas but there is cyano is high flow areas too.
i believe it is just part of the natural progression from putting new sand and gravel in. it will take some time to run it's course and be succeeded by other things.
i enjoy taking photos and posting them. it is kind of a record for me as to when stuff happened even though i write events on a calendar.
Carl
Reefski's
Active member
i recharged the DI unit today.
i kind of freaked a couple days ago when i measured the TDS out of the unit at 180 and PO4 at 0.12. i knew it was time. my straight tap water is 180 tds.
my tapwater can be off the charts high in PO4.
TDS is now 2
tank PO4 is 0.02ppm today
calcium 450
Mg 1350
Alk 12dKH
Nitrate 4
i kind of freaked a couple days ago when i measured the TDS out of the unit at 180 and PO4 at 0.12. i knew it was time. my straight tap water is 180 tds.
my tapwater can be off the charts high in PO4.
TDS is now 2
tank PO4 is 0.02ppm today
calcium 450
Mg 1350
Alk 12dKH
Nitrate 4
Reefski's
Active member
i recharged the DI unit today.
to recharge it takes 800 grams of NaOH
1.5 gallons of 15% HCl or Muriatic acid.
this costs about $10 and is good for many hundreds of gallons.
i kind of freaked a couple days ago when i measured the TDS out of the unit at 180 and PO4 at 0.12. i knew it was time. my straight tap water is 180 tds.
my tapwater can be off the charts high in PO4.
TDS is now 2
tank PO4 is 0.02ppm today
calcium 450
Mg 1350
Alk 12dKH
Nitrate 4
salinity 1.026
pH 8.3 i would like to get this a little higher.
i am adding about 15 gallons per day of top off water.
150 gms of soda carbonate
100 gms CaCl
Carl
to recharge it takes 800 grams of NaOH
1.5 gallons of 15% HCl or Muriatic acid.
this costs about $10 and is good for many hundreds of gallons.
i kind of freaked a couple days ago when i measured the TDS out of the unit at 180 and PO4 at 0.12. i knew it was time. my straight tap water is 180 tds.
my tapwater can be off the charts high in PO4.
TDS is now 2
tank PO4 is 0.02ppm today
calcium 450
Mg 1350
Alk 12dKH
Nitrate 4
salinity 1.026
pH 8.3 i would like to get this a little higher.
i am adding about 15 gallons per day of top off water.
150 gms of soda carbonate
100 gms CaCl
Carl
BigJay
New member
Maybe I missed it, but how do you work the ATO with the surge device? Only thing I can think of is running the ATO at night and having the surge system on during the day.
Has the surge tank increased your evaporation any?
PS: That is the neatest thing I've ever seen. I'd love to run a surge tank of some kind on my system, but sadly my tank isn't an in-wall, it's a piece of furniture in the living room. The best I can manage is a tunze box.
Has the surge tank increased your evaporation any?
PS: That is the neatest thing I've ever seen. I'd love to run a surge tank of some kind on my system, but sadly my tank isn't an in-wall, it's a piece of furniture in the living room. The best I can manage is a tunze box.
Steve1714
New member
Hay Carl,
If you run a smaller tube connected to the top of the siphon tube inside the surge device and cut it 1 inch shorter than the intake of the main surge pipe this will brake the siphon just before all those bubbles shoot out at the end of the surge. It also makes it a little less noisy.
how much DI resin did you recharg with that formula you listed?
Steve G
If you run a smaller tube connected to the top of the siphon tube inside the surge device and cut it 1 inch shorter than the intake of the main surge pipe this will brake the siphon just before all those bubbles shoot out at the end of the surge. It also makes it a little less noisy.
how much DI resin did you recharg with that formula you listed?
Steve G
Reefski's
Active member
Steve-
thanks but i already have it like that and the air is being sucked in by the small pipe, not the main 2" discharge. there is a lot of force as one falls about 5 feet and the other 60 gallon surge about 8 feet to the tank.
you can see it in this photo coming off the top and then with the parallax the bottom in the water.
maybe the air intake could be adjusted closer to the main 2" intake, or maybe farther up.
i have the Kati Ani 10. i don't know how much media they hold. it is the largest one Artisian Corals sells.
thanks but i already have it like that and the air is being sucked in by the small pipe, not the main 2" discharge. there is a lot of force as one falls about 5 feet and the other 60 gallon surge about 8 feet to the tank.
you can see it in this photo coming off the top and then with the parallax the bottom in the water.
maybe the air intake could be adjusted closer to the main 2" intake, or maybe farther up.
i have the Kati Ani 10. i don't know how much media they hold. it is the largest one Artisian Corals sells.
Reefski's
Active member
thanks Steve- i hope to have your success with my corals one day. you are an inspiration with your system.
they are not on timers and run 24/7.
i have macroalgae and some rubble in the tanks as well. i would need to hook up another pump and heater to keep it running if i were to turn off the main feed pump.
prefilter consists of three cartridges, 25 micron, 1 micron, Carbon.
i still don't know how to know when it is time to change those.
i hear both surges firing now from my room. it is comforting. time to go have a look with the red nightlight and magnifying glass. it is the only time i can see my pet crab. he is in the high flow area from the surge. i wonder how he likes it.
this piece i got from you is very happy. it does look different in my system though. the polyps are much larger. do you have any thoughts on why that might be?
this video was about a month ago when i connected the first surge. you can see better color and growth in the above picture than a month ago in the video.
it has weathered high PO4, alkalinity swings, low pH et al.
Carl
Steve1714
New member
That is a very healthy monti, no doubt about it.
As far as the DI filter, can't you hook up a TDS meter? you need to know when the resin is exausted. From what i have read about DI resin it will bond to silicate and phosphate, however the bond with silicate is weaker than that of phosphate, so once you have exausted the resin it will start kicking off silicate and replacing it with phosphate.
Steve G
As far as the DI filter, can't you hook up a TDS meter? you need to know when the resin is exausted. From what i have read about DI resin it will bond to silicate and phosphate, however the bond with silicate is weaker than that of phosphate, so once you have exausted the resin it will start kicking off silicate and replacing it with phosphate.
Steve G
Reefski's
Active member
i have a hand held TDS meter. i just have to use it more. i also have one on my old RO/DI unit but the DI filter has a much larger tubing size. i guess i could step it down. i only run it at a slow speed anyway.
that is interesting about the silica. most of the sand in my tank is silica. but that is another story, (it wasn't what i bought) is the short version.
Carl
that is interesting about the silica. most of the sand in my tank is silica. but that is another story, (it wasn't what i bought) is the short version.
Carl
Mr. Brooks
MASVC Member
Wow, everything I've ever heard about silica is bad..
Steve1714
New member
here is the article
incase you don't want to read the whole thing here is the part i would worry about;
"Several issues arise relating to the depletion of the DI resins that aquarists need to be aware of. Primary among these is that when a DI resin becomes depleted, that does not simply mean that the water passes through just as it came from the RO effluent. It may actually be much worse from an aquarist’s perspective. The reason for this is that while the DI resin is functioning properly, all ions will be caught. But when it is depleted, not only the new ions are coming through and might show up in the product water, but so are all the ions that ever got into the DI resin in the first place. The total concentration of ions coming out of the exhausted DI resin will not be raised as compared to the RO's effluent, but which ions are released may be very different."
"In the DI descriptions above, I did not address the fact that some ions will show a greater preference for attachment to the resin than will others. When the resins are not depleted, it does not matter what the ions’ affinity is, as all are bound. But in a depleted scenario, when there are more ions than ion binding sites, those with a higher affinity for the resin will be retained, and those with a lower affinity will be released. It turns out that silicate is found at the lower end of affinity for anion resins. Consequently, if the DI resin has been collecting silicate for a long period and is then depleted, a large burst of silicate may be released. "
"Perhaps even more of a concern is ammonia. In a system with chloramine in the tap water, the DI resin will serve the important function of removing much of the ammonia produced by the chloramine breakdown. Ammonia has a poorer affinity for many cation-binding resins than do many other cations (e.g., calcium or magnesium). Consequently, when the DI resin first becomes depleted, a big release of ammonia from and through the DI resin is likely. I recently had a DI resin become depleted, and the effluent contained so much ammonia that I could easily smell it. "
all the articles in this Link make good reading and i had many "Eurika!" moments.
Do you have allot of sponges in your sumps? they are made with silicate and if it wern't for them, your tank would have a ton of diatoms or golden looking algae in it. I wouldn.t worry too much about the silica sand, it takes allot to disolve it and I think Randy also has an article about that too.
Steve G
incase you don't want to read the whole thing here is the part i would worry about;
"Several issues arise relating to the depletion of the DI resins that aquarists need to be aware of. Primary among these is that when a DI resin becomes depleted, that does not simply mean that the water passes through just as it came from the RO effluent. It may actually be much worse from an aquarist’s perspective. The reason for this is that while the DI resin is functioning properly, all ions will be caught. But when it is depleted, not only the new ions are coming through and might show up in the product water, but so are all the ions that ever got into the DI resin in the first place. The total concentration of ions coming out of the exhausted DI resin will not be raised as compared to the RO's effluent, but which ions are released may be very different."
"In the DI descriptions above, I did not address the fact that some ions will show a greater preference for attachment to the resin than will others. When the resins are not depleted, it does not matter what the ions’ affinity is, as all are bound. But in a depleted scenario, when there are more ions than ion binding sites, those with a higher affinity for the resin will be retained, and those with a lower affinity will be released. It turns out that silicate is found at the lower end of affinity for anion resins. Consequently, if the DI resin has been collecting silicate for a long period and is then depleted, a large burst of silicate may be released. "
"Perhaps even more of a concern is ammonia. In a system with chloramine in the tap water, the DI resin will serve the important function of removing much of the ammonia produced by the chloramine breakdown. Ammonia has a poorer affinity for many cation-binding resins than do many other cations (e.g., calcium or magnesium). Consequently, when the DI resin first becomes depleted, a big release of ammonia from and through the DI resin is likely. I recently had a DI resin become depleted, and the effluent contained so much ammonia that I could easily smell it. "
all the articles in this Link make good reading and i had many "Eurika!" moments.
Do you have allot of sponges in your sumps? they are made with silicate and if it wern't for them, your tank would have a ton of diatoms or golden looking algae in it. I wouldn.t worry too much about the silica sand, it takes allot to disolve it and I think Randy also has an article about that too.
Steve G
Reefski's
Active member
it still has lots of life in it and does biofiltering like denitrification and nitrification just fine.
i think there is some concern that the grains are sharper.
Eric Borneman and Marc Levenson both saw it and recognized right away what it was. we tested in with HCl and it did not dissolve.
when i bought it from http://www.reefsand.com/ it was/is listed as aragonite
here is their description from the web site-
Marine White Sand #0
Premium Reef Sand:
Ideal for reef system tank bottoms, denitrifying anaerobic beds, extremely high surface area filter media.
Aragonite Benefits:
Reduces Nitrates. Maintain pH. Increases Carbonate Hardness. Provide Marine Trace Elements. Pre-washed Minimum Rinse Required. 100% From The Ocean Floor. Heat Sterilized. Ideal for culturing Live sand.
Item #: 10791
UPC: 029904107912
Grain size: 0.1-0.5mm
Packaged: 2 - 20 lb Bags per case
Net Weight: 40 lbs
very interesting info Steve. i will read the links too.
i do have a lot of sponges in my sumps.
i think there is some concern that the grains are sharper.
Eric Borneman and Marc Levenson both saw it and recognized right away what it was. we tested in with HCl and it did not dissolve.
when i bought it from http://www.reefsand.com/ it was/is listed as aragonite
here is their description from the web site-
Marine White Sand #0
Premium Reef Sand:
Ideal for reef system tank bottoms, denitrifying anaerobic beds, extremely high surface area filter media.
Aragonite Benefits:
Reduces Nitrates. Maintain pH. Increases Carbonate Hardness. Provide Marine Trace Elements. Pre-washed Minimum Rinse Required. 100% From The Ocean Floor. Heat Sterilized. Ideal for culturing Live sand.
Item #: 10791
UPC: 029904107912
Grain size: 0.1-0.5mm
Packaged: 2 - 20 lb Bags per case
Net Weight: 40 lbs
very interesting info Steve. i will read the links too.
i do have a lot of sponges in my sumps.
Steve1714
New member
Like i said before, I don't think the sand is causing any problem in your system. If you think about it, what is glass made of? "Silicate" and nobody worries about there tank walls disolving. I would worry only about the junk that comes flowing out once the DI resin is exausted. That is some scarry stuff.
love the sponge growth
Whenever i find a good sponge, i buy it then chop it up (always keep it unger water) into little bits then sprinkel it all over my sumps. A few months later it is everywhere. It doesn't work with the red Cactus looking sponge though.
Steve G
love the sponge growth
Whenever i find a good sponge, i buy it then chop it up (always keep it unger water) into little bits then sprinkel it all over my sumps. A few months later it is everywhere. It doesn't work with the red Cactus looking sponge though.
Steve G
Steve1714
New member
The prefilters catch allot, you probably notice that they are very yellow/brown when you remove the old ones. At the water treatment plant they add Sodium silicate to help pull out suspended material, and it helps protect pipe lines, storage tanks or similar structures, from corrosion. However there is like up to 80 ppm of silicate in the tap water so it is just everywhere, the prefilters catch some but the majority just flows right past the prefilters and carbon filters.
Steve G
Steve G
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