700 gallon tank, or how i spent my daughters inheritance

[Reefski's]

i had some rapid swings of alk and pH a few weeks ago with the Ca reactor. at least i think that is why these monti caps are looking like this. i thought maybe it was the sun bleaching the coral but the pieces under halides in the garage in the same system water look the same.

they have picked up growth again. just a little change in the parameters can kill a coral.

they all have some algae growing on them.

some corals may be getting too much sun.

this is the favia a few weeks ago.

vs today.

the part that is more shaded by the monti cap is darker but still paler than a few weeks ago.

i put some eggcrate over the end of the tank today that gets the direct sun down the shaft.

the PO4 continues to be high and requires frequent dosing of lanthanum chloride to keep it low.

 

[Reefski's]

on a happier note-there is some asexual reproduction going on.
the Acan is dropping a polyp. i am sure there is a scientific word for it that i don't know.

the Pocillipora has several daughter colonies around the tank.

 

[birdman204]

That red favia looks mighty familiar !!!
The more and more I read this thread, the more and more I want to come and see your tank and steal some frags back when you aren't looking.

How's this piece look in the natural sunlight?

 

[Reefski's]

the fish are still happy.

 

[Reefski's]

the fish line up in the surge.

 

[Reefski's]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14987753#post14987753 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by birdman204
That red favia looks mighty familiar !!!
The more and more I read this thread, the more and more I want to come and see your tank and steal some frags back when you aren't looking.

How's this piece look in the natural sunlight?

that is a great phot. the Platygyra is another one that is a bit paler now with the higher light intensity. it is browner than it appears in your photo. it is also more contracted now.

when you had it did it put out feeders at night? seems like it used to but i don't see them anymore. maybe it is not happy where it is. too much flow, too much light?

i'll see how they do with the eggcrate shading.

Carl

 

[birdman204]

That pic I took is under 20K's and actinic.
No fair to compare color completley.
Regarding contracted... I take all my photos with the pumps off. After a while, the LPS seem to swell a touch.

It usually extended feeder tentacles in the mornings. I would get to work and feed corals in the mornings about 6:30 to 7-ish.

Flow wise, it was at the farthest point in the tank from any pump outputs. Dead center on the front sand.

I did notice new growth on it from your earlier pictures in the thread. The pattern looks different. Probably due to flow. This is to be expected in the wild as well depending on different flow patterns so....
Growth is the biggest indicator. If it's growing. Something must be happening properly. With the direct sunlight, if you notice it fading, perhaps under an overhang or similar would be beneficial.
RE: the red favia.
I had it 9 inches under water with a 400 W nearly dead above it hanging 10 inches off the water. Same with that large orange and green acan. That was about 11 inches down adjacent to the favia.
Just goes to show HOW MUCH MORE powerful the sun really is.

I've got a few shelf pieces I would be glad to lend to support a proper environment for them. They are dead however and would need a cycle.

 

[Reefski's]

thanks for the offer of the shelf pieces. i don't know where i would put them in the tank. come by sometime and see it in person.

i agree that it is growing. i just need to get those two a little less light.

i can move the Platy back a bit more under the Acro. it was back a little more before i changed the sandbed.

the cyano is retreating too, being replaced by green on the gravel. the lawnmower blenny will pick up a piece of gravel in it's mouth and eat the algae from it.

 

[MSX-Jeff]

IME, it's a common misconception that corals will turn brown under intense natural sunlight. We have a greenhouse propagation facility, and the corals were all brown when I took over the day to day of the GH...everyone thought that the corals were brown from too much sunlight (even with 90% shade cloth). It turns out it was a nutrient issue (as I suspect yours might be too). I ditched all of the old ETSS 1000 skimmers and replaced them with smaller PW skimmers that drew MUCH more air, and changed the salt mix from RC to SC ReefSalt. We are now only running 30% blue shade cloth, and the colors are almost as intense as you would see under MH's.

I've followed your thread from the beginning, and I think that one day you might be able to go completely skimmerless, but I think it will take awhile for all of your natural methods to really start to work as they should. Until then, you might want to think about putting a big, modern skimmer on your system...I think you'll be surprised by what it will do for your colors. Then, when your natural filtration methods get mature, you can start weaning your system off of the skimmer. Then you can pull it offline and sell it, or hold onto it for a rainy day.

 

[Dante_JoseCuerv]

Haha, Reefski's, I'm sensing an obsession with that crosshatch Can't blame you, you've got a fine specimen there.

 

[melev]

You mentioned alk and ca swings. I would check magnesium, and double check the calibration of the refractometer as well.

In the past, when Montiporas faded, magnesium was low.

Oh, and stray electricity is bad too. Might be worth checking for that as well.

 

[lilmonster]

i went through 15 damsels before finding the stray current,
the heater seals had cracked

 

[Reefski's]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14988649#post14988649 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MSX-Jeff
IME, it's a common misconception that corals will turn brown under intense natural sunlight. We have a greenhouse propagation facility, and the corals were all brown when I took over the day to day of the GH...everyone thought that the corals were brown from too much sunlight (even with 90% shade cloth). It turns out it was a nutrient issue (as I suspect yours might be too). I ditched all of the old ETSS 1000 skimmers and replaced them with smaller PW skimmers that drew MUCH more air, and changed the salt mix from RC to SC ReefSalt. We are now only running 30% blue shade cloth, and the colors are almost as intense as you would see under MH's.

I've followed your thread from the beginning, and I think that one day you might be able to go completely skimmerless, but I think it will take awhile for all of your natural methods to really start to work as they should. Until then, you might want to think about putting a big, modern skimmer on your system...I think you'll be surprised by what it will do for your colors. Then, when your natural filtration methods get mature, you can start weaning your system off of the skimmer. Then you can pull it offline and sell it, or hold onto it for a rainy day.

i agree with you about the coloration. i have seen many corals directly from the collectors that were maricultured in shallow water, bright light and were very brightly colored acroporas, et al.

i think it is about the nutrients.

i do have a MRC C4848 skimmer running 24/7 for now. it bubbles like crazy and as time goes on it is pulling out less and less. right now it has not been cleaned in close to a month and only has about 12" in the collector. it is very thick, very dark but still... not that much.

Eric Borneman also thinks one day i can turn it off or only run it intermittently, maybe with ozone occasionally for the yellowing. not yet though.

here is a great idea from Eric. dry and weigh a days worth of food. clean the skimmer really well and collect 24 hours of skimmate. dry that and weigh it. compare. it is only a small fraction of what you are feeding. and if you are not skiimming it out filter feeders etc will use it for food if you have enough habitat for them to grow in. i think the habitat area is overlooked. you need a big area for that, ideally, bigger than the display tank.

a few weeks ago i put all the sand, 10" worth from a 55 gallon that i broke down into one of the garage tanks connected to the system. i am sure that is going through a cycle too.

a few more months and it may all finally start to come together.

 

[Reefski's]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14988649#post14988649 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by MSX-Jeff
IME, it's a common misconception that corals will turn brown under intense natural sunlight. We have a greenhouse propagation facility, and the corals were all brown when I took over the day to day of the GH...everyone thought that the corals were brown from too much sunlight (even with 90% shade cloth). It turns out it was a nutrient issue (as I suspect yours might be too). I ditched all of the old ETSS 1000 skimmers and replaced them with smaller PW skimmers that drew MUCH more air, and changed the salt mix from RC to SC ReefSalt. We are now only running 30% blue shade cloth, and the colors are almost as intense as you would see under MH's.

I've followed your thread from the beginning, and I think that one day you might be able to go completely skimmerless, but I think it will take awhile for all of your natural methods to really start to work as they should. Until then, you might want to think about putting a big, modern skimmer on your system...I think you'll be surprised by what it will do for your colors. Then, when your natural filtration methods get mature, you can start weaning your system off of the skimmer. Then you can pull it offline and sell it, or hold onto it for a rainy day.

i agree with you about the coloration. i have seen many corals directly from the collectors that were maricultured in shallow water, bright light and were very brightly colored acroporas, et al.

i think it is about the nutrients. as nutrients, esp PO4 have decreased the corals have gotten better coloration and growth too!

i do have a MRC C4848 skimmer running 24/7 for now. it bubbles like crazy and as time goes on it is pulling out less and less. right now it has not been cleaned in close to a month and only has about 12" in the collector. it is very thick, very dark but still... not that much.

Eric Borneman also thinks one day i can turn it off or only run it intermittently, maybe with ozone occasionally for the yellowing. not yet though.

here is a great idea from Eric. dry and weigh a days worth of food. clean the skimmer really well and collect 24 hours of skimmate. dry that and weigh it. compare. it is only a small fraction of what you are feeding. and if you are not skiimming it out filter feeders etc will use it for food if you have enough habitat for them to grow in. i think the habitat area is overlooked. you need a big area for that, ideally, bigger than the display tank.

a few weeks ago i put all the sand, 10" worth from a 55 gallon that i broke down into one of the garage tanks connected to the system. i am sure that is going through a cycle too.

a few more months and it may all finally start to come together.

 

[Reefski's]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14989048#post14989048 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
You mentioned alk and ca swings. I would check magnesium, and double check the calibration of the refractometer as well.

In the past, when Montiporas faded, magnesium was low.

Oh, and stray electricity is bad too. Might be worth checking for that as well.

when i tested my magnesium right after you left i found it was only 1150. i brought it up over about three days to 1350 where it is now. calcium was also a little low at 350 and now i am keeping it at 450 with daily dosing of CaCl., 100 grams.

i don't have a way to test my refractometer but it is only a year old, not that that is a guarantee of accuracy.

i don't think i have any stray electricity in the tank as there are no powerheads in the display tank. there are in the other parts of the system. i have had the leaky Koralia a couple of times and know what it feels like to put you hand in the water and feel the current. i put my hand in the tank everyday and i think i would notice if that was an issue.

the main pumps are all external.

i will get some better pix of the corals that faded.

here is a closeup of the platy from a couple of days ago with sunlight only.

when the 10k and 14k lights come on in the evening it looks more purple.

Carl

 

[melev]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14991163#post14991163 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Reefski's
when i tested my magnesium right after you left i found it was only 1150. i brought it up over about three days to 1350 where it is now. calcium was also a little low at 350 and now i am keeping it at 450 with daily dosing of CaCl., 100 grams.

i don't have a way to test my refractometer but it is only a year old, not that that is a guarantee of accuracy.

i don't think i have any stray electricity in the tank as there are no powerheads in the display tank. there are in the other parts of the system. i have had the leaky Koralia a couple of times and know what it feels like to put you hand in the water and feel the current. i put my hand in the tank everyday and i think i would notice if that was an issue.

the main pumps are all external.

With a multimeter, you can test the tank for stray voltage. (Another method is to have a small cut on your finger when you reach in the water, resulting in a tingling feeling.)

Put one probe in the ground hole of a nearby outlet, put the other in the water. The goal it so read 0 on the digital meter. My tank had stray electricity from several pumps, which were all removed and replaced with the manifold a few months ago.

Additionally, I have a grounding probe in my sump and my display, to protect me in the event of an accident.

 

[birdman204]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=14991319#post14991319 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by melev
Additionally, I have a grounding probe in my sump and my display, to protect me in the event of an accident.

^^^ This.

Dang man, that's your garage?

 

[Reefski's]

the city calls it my garage. i call it the rest of the tank.

there is more to it than you see in the picture above which was taken when it was first being set up. i need some updated pictures of that too.

Marc-i always felt the stray voltage and not just through a cut. no multimeter required. why did you think that might be an issue?

Carl

 

[Reefski's]

a couple of more pictures of the damage. the corals still have polyps. this damage happened rapidly over a couple of days. the new growth is about three weeks old.

this last one is just because i liked it.

what could have caused this? low magnisium, shifting alkalinity, pH swing, what?

 

[Steve1714]

Are you sure lanthanum chloride is safe to use in a reef tank?
I've never heard of anybody using it in a reef, just for swiming pools and water treatment plants. GFO works great for me and i only need 2 - 3 cups every 2 months.
If it is not the lanthanum chloride then i would think it was posibly some undisolved salt or buffer or limewater suspension that was blown around by the curent and these tiny particles burned them much like kalkwiser does to an aptesia. An indicator would be if only the upper facing areas were burnt and the undersides would still be in good shape. if bolth sides were burnt then it was probably a pH or too high an alka burn. Hope you find the reason soon.

Steve G