700 gallon tank, or how i spent my daughters inheritance

[Reefski's]

all concrete will be removed shortly.

so here is some more bad news-

i have had these clams for a couple of years.

do clams have two sexes?

the first one was the Maxima. this went on for a day or so and left the clam all shriveled up which is how it is today. five days after it started. the Maxima's spawn was thicker and more mucusy. i am guessing that is the female.

then the next day for a couple of days the Squamosa spawned leaving the clam like you see.

will they recover or are they dead or dying?

the other three clams in the tank, all Maximas seem fine, expended and all. all other creatures seem fine too.

things that might have influenced the spawn.
i did a 20" water change that day.
the housekeeper used Pinesol on the floor in the rooms by the tank. it was very strong smelling.
i used Lanthanum chloride for PO4 reduction as i have many times in the past.

 

[Reefski's]

the same day the Gorgonian pulled in all polyps which it does periodically.

and two days later was back to normal.

this larger Maxima was not affected at all.

 

[Reefski's]

 

[dave.m]

Your second video is more typical of clams I have seen spawning. It is not normal, from what I have seen, for them to shrivel up and remain like that afterward. The first video suggests the clam doesn't have much energy. I'm sorry I'm not an expert of any kind on clams, just what I have seen in others' tanks. Do you have any of the clam books?

djm

 

[Reefski's]

i have James Fatherees book on Tridacnid Clams but it was not very informative about spawning events.

 

[dave.m]

I'm afraid I'm not a big Fatheree fan. You would probably do better with Daniel Knop's book which, of course, I can't seem to lay my hand on at the moment.

Knop also has extensive writings on giant clams in Coral Magazine, Volume 1, Issue 3 - June/July 2004, where he notes that a sudden release of gametes can be a sign of severe stress, a sort of "Save my babies!" kind of response to unacceptable conditions. Lots of skimming, charcoal and a water change is called for. Gather as much of the gametes as you can with a fine netting like nylon wool, anything to clear the water soonest. Check for a rise in ammonia. Ventilate the tank with a fan to increase oxygen.

He says there is no reason to expect unaffected clams to follow the behaviour of the injured clam, so that's a good thing. (I am paraphrasing, of course.)

Dave.M

 

[Reefski's]

the clams are dead. could it be the high nutrients? nitrates 25-35ppm and PO4 0.30ppm

the other three clams are still fine.

 

[dahenley]

just a question. (i have not been following like i should)
you were talking earlier about limestone rock and concrete blocks and silica sand that were pumping things in your tank that prevented your corals and such from thriving. what all did you do? (if there is a page, i dont mind reading if you can point me in the right direction)

if you have changed these items, have you found a change or improvement in your tank.

(also, you were flip flopping between natural and artificial saltwater. are you back to natural filtered saltwater?)

sorry for so many questions.....
(im sorry about the clam. i want one, but i am still too insecure about purchasing one. plus college funds dont help)

 

[Reefski's]

i am currently using Catalina water collected from our local ocean. it is not the same water i was getting from Santa Barbara exactly. but it is Pacific Ocean and is the same water used at may wholesalers and the Long Beach Aquarium.

here are some comments posted by Dr. Ron Shimek in another thread here about the clams.
Sorry to hear that they died. Obviously, I didn't think they would, or should, die as a result of the spawning. I see you did a partial water change the during some of the spawning. Did you do any others? Spawning males are generally not a problem in reef tanks, spawns by females do tend to pollute things, and it is often a good idea to do a serious water change or two (50% or better) after a spawn. However, the residual nutrient factors you mentioned shouldn't be a problem. In fact, the levels of nutrients you mention would be fine for tridacnids, they can take much high levels than that.

The only reason I can think of for the spawning and dying to be related would be if the spawning released enough organic materials (eggs, mostly) into the tank to cause a major bacterial bloom. That bloom could happen very rapidly - within a couple of hours. As long as the tank is illuminated and well-aerated from water movement, that bacterial bloom would not cause a problem as the water's oxygen concentration would remain high. However, if there was a lot of residual eggs in the tank after the spawning (spermies don't count, they have virtually no pollutant value), once the light goes out and algae stop pumping oxygen into the system, the water oxygen concentration might get very low, perhaps low enough to kill the clams. Why those particular clams should die, and not any others, or why not other animals had ill effects... I can't begin to guess.


=====================================
i need some help with the sump tanks.

Reefski (5/13/2010)

---

i am taking out everything from the sumps to get rid of the concrete blocks and quartz sand.

water comes into this one from the overflows in the tank and then through three more before returning to the DT as seen below.

there are also now two glass tanks over the plastic bins that get water from the display tank.

the skimmer is at the end of the 4th tank and it's output goes back to the first sump. another pump in the 4th tank is the return to the DT.

so what would you put in these four tanks? i have or will have 1-2mm sand, also larger pea sized gravel, lot's of LR. i also have a lot of Matala mat that is not being used for Koi pond filtering. i have had a small amount of it in the sumps for over a year now. it is growing different worms and sponges on it. it seems like a great habitat for lots of little critters, eventually.

it has a lot of surface area and a lot of open places as well. i have all four densities and enough to fill as many of the bins as i like.

i am also going to have a turf scrubber over the DT fed by the pump to the surge tanks and lit by the sun.

---

 

[Reefski's]

poor view of the setup now.

 

[erics3000]

I also don't see your clam death related to your nitrate level. I have had them with higher levels of nitrate for years, but that is just my limited expierence. One of mine had pinch clam and the fres water dips helped.

In my opinion Myself the 1st bin would be mechanical filtration and skimmer first this way you can get the big detritus out first breaks down before it.ac and carbon there. The next bin would be a macro algae/ turf algae bin with no sand in that bin so it easier to clean. Than maybe a bin with sand ( real good araganite sand not play sand) and the last with rock and no sand. That last bin would have some dark areas at the bottom with rock piled on top to create a cryptic zone.

If you want to use that matala stuff I would try it a the end of the filtration line. I assume it would also fill up with detritus, besides the sponges and other goodies. I don't think I would use it.


Or Option B feed all bins from the first mechanical filtration bin from a manifold from your return pumps. I am curious to see what other say too.

Good Luck and keep us posted with what works for you..

 

[dahenley]

i am going to give an opinion. (i am by far NOT an expert.)

your skimmer should come/pull water from somewhere before your macro/sponge filters. (if you do it after, you will pull pods and good nutrients that are put in the water from the macro algae)

you can put a sponge filter in the first tank to pull large particles out before they get trapped in the other bins. (you have to be able to pull them out and clean them so i hope you can get in the first bin. (its hard to tell in the pictures, but it looks like you have access to the first half of the first bin)

you can feed the two frag tanks on the bins with the skimmed water from the skimmer. (that might save you from using another pump.

i like erics idea of not using sand in the macro bin. every time i grab my macro to mess around, there is a storm of crap floating. so i would think if you got in there and stired your macro, i would let it settle and vacume all the stuff that settles. (it might require you to shut off the pumps for a min and have everything settle while you clean everything.

just an opinion (because i cant remember how you plumbed everything)
if you take water from the top of tank one, and run it to the bottom of tank 2. (bulk head in the top of tank 1, 45, pipe, 45, bulkhead in the bottom of the tank.) this will cause water to stir things in the bottom of the tanks and will help with circulation throughout the tanks.

i know this might be a bunch of ramble, but i figure any opinions given might help tip off something that might help you out in the future.

 

[Reefski's]

tomorrow i will be taking all the rocks, sand and concrete blocks from the sump tanks. just got a delivery today of 2000 gallons of Catalina water Company NSW.

the DT is next but not for a few more weeks.

 

[::PixelFish::]

How about clearing everything out and not adding more sand and especially gravel? Gravel is a detritus sink. From my experience with using Matala in ponds, it's also a detritus sink. To clean my matala from my old koi pond I just took it out and banged it againts the side of the filter and lots of gunk would come out.

I would also restart my display tank. Remove the old sand, do a shallower sand bed. You could always do a remote deep sand bed in one of your filter tubs. Clean out as much as possible to remove contaminants and lower your nitrates and phosphates. Simplify what you have now and if you want to add more sand or matala, add that one by one over a period of time. That way you'll be able to tell what's causing your problems.

 

[Reefski's]

thanks

i will not be able to take down and redo the DT for a few more weeks. many visitors here soon for the daughters graduation from UCLA grad school. Masters in Social work. we are very proud of her and the best part is she already has a great job waiting for her with DCFS, Department of Children and Family Services.

i don't have my replacement sand yet but will soon have 2800 pounds of #1 aragonite that i will use in the sumps and the DT.

still not sure about using the Matala. the little bit i have had in the sumps has gotten colonized with some fan worms, sponges, et al.

 

[::PixelFish::]

I like the idea of the matala and all the surface area it supplies for good stuff to grow on but then I remember how clogged up it got with gunk. Your house and tank is so awesome, I really hope you're able to solve your issues. Congrats to your daughter as well!

 

[Reefski's]

we got all the cement blocks and sand out of the sumps on saturday.

it went very well. i got all the sumps empty, cleaned and all rock put back in one long day.

the water arrived by a small tanker truck and is pumped into the various containers to total 2000 gallons.

i turned off the returns to the DT a bit after starting to pull out the rock and things got a bit stired up in the DT as well.

this is how the sumps looked. lots of detritus and in the water.

had to fish the rock out in the dark so to speak. no one got bit by any critters, i know there is at least one crab in there somewhere and lots of good sized bristle worms. actually i am the only one that got a little bristle worm "bite"

the rock went into the top tanks and a separate 400 gallon tank.

i put the Matala mat in the third sump.

and more rock in the last one.

interesting that lots of the aragonite sand, (there was some) it bound together. why does that happen?

these were all in the tanks as was the sand.

 

[Reefski's]

water parameters afterwards and replacement of about 700 gallons.

pH 8.4
nitrates went from 35 to 10 ppm
PO4 from 0.1 to 0.5ppm i am treating with Lanthanum Chloride now. will measure again tomorrow.
Ca 380
Mg 1260
dKH 10
temp 79

 

[cpl40475]

Did that sand come out of your sumps? If so looks like posibly something from the concrete blocks or gravel (possible dust) broke loose and fell into the sand causing it to form up. When I worked for a local concrete company in Lexington Ky. I know after hard rains alot of the sand that was lower to the ground would clump up like that.The way everything was ran at the plant there was always gravel dust every where. Is this what happened to you i have no clue,but it is a possibility.

 

[Mountain_Medic]

Wow man, looks like the easiest way to clean up your system would be to take everything out, qt it all, get it healthy, and maybe cut your system volume down to something you can manage...