A challenge: can you?

Sk8r

Staff member
RC Mod
As a NTTH person, you likely sit by your tank for hours; and fuss and futz and want Something To Do.
Let's make it interesting.
Got your test kits? Salinity/temperature/Nitrate/ammonia/alkalinity/calcium/magnesium:---and want to try a skill challenge?

Test daily. (for one thing, your skills at that operation will improve)
Report your numbers in this thread every day or every few days, whatever you can manage. See how many days running you can hold it.

Your target numbers:
salinity 1.024 to 1.026 (a fish-only can be 1.019)
temperature: 78 to 80
ammonia: 0
nitrate: under 20
alkalinity: 7.9 to 8.3
calcium: 420: this is really important for a reef. Fish-only may be down as far as 400, but 420 makes an easier balance.
magnesium: 1350 or a shade higher; no lower than 1200.

The object is to see how many days in a row you can keep all this spot on.
The prize in general is a tank that's going to have far fewer problems.
[target numbers are set for fairly easy balance. You may figure if you are badly 'out' on any of these, you may have sickened a pretend-fish. just say: 'all on target' or post the one that's 'off'.

Now: how to cope with a sinking but not 'out' number. If your alk is falling, you need to check your mg, which is closely related to it. Bring the mg up to snuff; test in 8 hours; THEN dose the alk buffer, to bring the alk back stable; the calcium is related to both of these. Sounds like a balancing act, right?

It is. And the point of balance is the magnesium: if it's in the zone, the other two readings will behave. If you learn that from this exercise, your life in this hobby will be much easier.

If you have a controller, cool. It's an allowable 'cheat'. If you don't, also cool: I've run for decades with no controller, just tests and hand-dosing---and kalk. I'll explain that: if you add 2 tsp per gallon of kalk to your topoff reservoir and your mg level is 1350 or so, the kalk will supply alk and cal so long as the reservoir holds out. It's another 'cheat' and very easy to do.

I will happily answer questions like: my nitrate is 30---what should I do? and other problems, too.
 
Last edited:
Cool!

Day 1:
salinity 1.027
temperature: 79
ammonia: 0
nitrate: 0-5
alkalinity: 8.0
calcium: 440
magnesium: 1400
 
Bump the alk just a tad and get that salinity down a couple of .000ths. Your other readings are ok: cal will eventually come into line as will mg: these things get used.
 
As still a somewhat newbie....I don't know how you would do this.

It takes me HOURS to test my tank and I don't even cover all the params.

I have to schedule when I'll be doing testing.
 
I don't know what you're doing, but here's my protocols. Have a babyfood-jar sized bottle perfectly clean, dedicated to picking up tank water.
Fill it.
Clear a workspace. use your refractometer (must have for your sanity) and get a reading: less than a minute. Wipe down with soft cloth and be sure to empty bulb-tube.
test alk: Salifert test. draw up water in syringe. shoot into provided testtube, add 4 drops blue fluid; fill syringe, shoot it into testtube watching for red flash; if you see a flash slow down and shoot it a lot, lot, slower. Always look DOWN into tube and have tube against white background. YOu can rush the drops until you see a flash that goes away. Then when you've got it all pink, look at the chart. Testing time, about 2 minutes if that.
Calcium: a little more complex, about 4 minutes.
Magnesium: observe your wait times on each step. It's futzier. About 4 minutes.
Nitrate: again, timed: under 5 minutes. You don't have to run that one daily.
Ammonia: a dip strip is enough. Should be zero. Time: 10 seconds.
Always rinse and dry your vials and be careful not to leave residue that can screw the next test. People have read sky high salinity because they forgot to void the last collection from the tube and it dried there.

If you're taking an hour to do your tests, I'd suggest going over to Salifert on alk-cal-mg, and getting a dip strip test for ammonia. The whole routine should take very little over 15 minutes at that, and less if you're adept. The problem with a more exhaustive regimen with tests that are taking that long is that it becomes a real drag and doesn't get done often enough. Another hint: if it says slow stir, no shake, just hold the test-tube in the same hand as you uncap bottles and prepare stuff like the syringe. It's enough movement to do the mixing they want. An egg timer is also an asset.
 
I have all red sea prokits.

ALK, CAL, MAG take about 20min each at least.

1 drop shake.....1 drop shake.....

Phosphate has a 15 min wait time so does Ammonia.

Plus time to clean everything before and after I test.

I have bought many items to make testing quick and all were inaccurate.

I have a bottle of RODI and a dump bucket.

Each syringe is filled with fresh water tank water. I would not use a single container of water from the tank, but that is me. I flush everything with rodi before, durring, and after tests.
 
My feeling about each test:

Alk: hanna, 30s and done, I feel like a scientist with the syringe
Calc and Mag: red sea kit, is it blue, is it really blue, crap did i go past?
Nitrate: can't tell between 2 and 5 (low range, sideway) for the life of me
Phosphorus ULR: hanna, clock start, 2mins to get the damn powder in and mixed before checker turn off! tap tap, ah crap some powder spill out, the label says poisonous...
Salinity: apex probe, 0s, wee, occasional check with Milwaukee
 
I'll play along, just for the record my numbers are out of whack and I know this. I am slowly bringing them back online...

Temp: 80
Salinity: 1.021 working up about 0.001 per day until 1.026
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: 0.04, running chaeto and phosguard, filter my mysis feeds
Alkalinity: 7.8, up from 7.0 on my way to 9
Calcium: 350 up from 310 on my way to 420
Mg: 1180 up from 1000 on my way to 1300
 
1 drop shake.....1 drop shake.....

Shake as you drop, the color change happens fast and you should have an idea of when it will happen based on your last test. I mean you should be able to squirt at LEAST 0.3 ml in there before worrying about a color change. The KH is stupid simple, add 10ml add the KH reagent, anything over 3 mins and you're doing it wrong. Sk8r is right, the more you do this the quicker it will be. I can do kh, ca and mg in 15 mins, rinse and place on a paper plate with a towel ready for tomorrow... The more you practice the quicker (and more accurate/precise) you will become

YOU CAN DO IT!!!!!!!:bounce1:
 
OK, tested this morning and my new parameters are:

Temp: 80
Salinity: 1.021 no change overnight, may dose a little saltwater this afternoon
Ammonia: 0
Nitrate: 0
Phosphate: 0.04, working with redseakev to determine how or if to dose nopox
Alkalinity: 9.2, now to see how much it dips without adding any this evening
Calcium: 395, almost there
Mg: 1160, so evidently the old kent's mg I had is not helping much... I will use the BRS I mixed Sunday evening tonight to help boost Mg
 
drop and shake? The real reason is not the mixing so much as the fear you'll overshoot your result. Try this. First of all, keep a log. If you know yesterday's reading you know how much of the syringe will go in before there's ANY likelihood of a reaction. So just put in a goodly shot. Then slow down to drop-by-drop. If you doubt the accuracy of this procedure, do it the long way and do it with this shortcut and see if your results don't match. I'm pretty sure this is a valid way to proceed: I learned the trick on an actual research science project for which I was a major pan-washer and sometime test-runner. Many reactions produce a color flash before the actual reaction: in Salifert alk, for instance, you get a blue liquid in the tube which flashes a brief curl of bright pink; each shake as you approach the result dissipates it and the color goes away. When you get to the result, the pink stays.
That's your result.
 
I devised this post, incidentally, just as a way to walk people through a testing regime that will turn up their problems and cure them, ideally before they have fish and corals; I didn't realize there was so much anxiety about the tests---and if I can clear that up, so that people can sail through their tests through practice and logging with no sweat, I will be very happy.
If you have questions or problems, I understand: those instructions are unnecessarily meticulous. If it says 'wait' or 'shake' and gives a DURATION OF TIME, be meticulous about that! but if it just says add a drop, you can add multiple drops if you're nowhere near the previous day's (week's) point of result yet!
 
I have had success raising mag with kent tech-m for what its worth

This is what I have. I bought it for a bryopsis outbreak that I cured by buying a new tank :D LOL. Anyway it is pretty old, maybe 1.5 yrs. The BRS Mag solution was difficult to make (one of the powders was caked together and I had to scrape it and ripped my knuckles up on the razor sharp opening) and I did not want to use all of it bringing the mag to normal. However, at this point I will use it tonight to do just that.
 
My deviosity rating is possibly higher than some.
Seriously, BECAUSE I had lab training, water tests were an oh-sure, for me. I looked at the instructions, immediately had a fair idea what the critical elements were (accuracy of measure, collecting the sample BEFORE you dump some dose in the water, and accurate time-measurement in waiting for a reaction)---but to someone who's never met the process, all the instructions seem to carry equal weight, and it's downright daunting.

One of the most important things to understand, re syringes, is that you're measuring the amount of LIQUID, so be sure that the plunger is not part of your measure: always measure only the liquid, not the plunger. Simple concept, but if something a third of an inch long is taking up part of the measurement, it's going to throw your results.
Anybody have any more questions about the test procedures? Be sure and rinse the vials. Yes, you can return unused liquid to the bottle. And develop the habit of capping the bottles when not in use. It's a hair-pulling moment when your hand nudges a featherweight bottle and it spills 18.00 worth of essential fluid over the counter.
 
OK, actually timed myself last night:

1 hour 20 minutes to find out the following:

CAL: 310
ALK: 7.3
MAG: 1160
Nitrates: 0
Nitrites: 0
Phos: 0.02
PH: 8.2
Salinity: 1.021
Temp: 78.6


Looks like my new calcium reactor isn't working/keeping up (been up about 2-3 weeks now). Maybe 6.8PH in the reaction chamber isn't low enough. Also need to bump up my salinity.

Tank is 4 months old.....I've never changed the water!

BTW: I do keep a log.
 
Last edited:
Good on the log. I gather by your pic (and reactor) you keep corals. I'd bump those things up a bit. Water changes replace the trace elements that slowly get used up: 'old tank syndrome' is where the tank gets ghosty problems with growth, and that may be a trace element shortage. Your salinity is low for corals. 1.024 is what most salt mixes provide. But again, test for several days until you've gotten a consistency of results: a correction based on an incorrect test result can really give you problems.
 
What do you guys use for measurement logging btw? So far I like Apex Fusion's pretty graphs and built in test kits conversion tables.
 
Back
Top