Temperature during shipping. Heating packs sometimes not enough
A new reefer... a new tank. What could go wrong?
- Thread starter SereneAquatic
- Start date
Temperature during shipping. Heating packs sometimes not enough
SereneAquatic
New member
I was recently at one of the LFS and noticed that they had some live rock in their tank that was REALLY alive. I know this can be hazardous, but decided to introduce the variety into the nano tank and quarantine the rock for a while. We aren't in a hurry to move Flash to the 425 so the 'clock' on the QT isn't important right now. I'm really curious about the helpfulness of detrivores in cleaning tanks.
I reserved some rock and then went back with a bucket of salt water to transport the rock with all the life on it to the house. I bought a rock that had visible bristle worms (I know... some people go to great lengths to keep them OUT), pods, asterina starfish and feather dusters. When I got it home, I decided to quarantine the rock outside of the quarantine tank (lol) for a few days, just in case anything crazy came out of it. My husband was concerned and was making me rethink the idea, so the rock sat in the bucket of water for probably 3 days before I looked at it again. I was surprised to notice that the feather duster was still alive in the cooler water, but I couldn't see anything else visible on it anymore, so I tossed a heater in the bucket, a little frozen food, did a small water change and left it alone again for about a week.
The next weekend I still couldn't see anything else alive on it so I thought 'Meh. That's what a QT is for...' and put the rock into the nano.
Within about 10 minutes of hitting the water, that thing came alive. A BUNCH of bristle worms came out, little creepy crawly bugs (Pods, I think) climbing all over it, asterina starfish, multiple more feather dusters than I had even known where there... it was crazy.
Flash was super excited about it and started trying to eat bristle worms and pods right away.
Since that night, I haven't been able to see any worms, no feather dusters peeping out... but a few asterina starfish are loitering around. Either the rock inhabitants moved to other rocks, Flash ate them all, they died, or they are hiding in the rock again and maybe come out more at night.
At any rate, it was fun to watch. I had no idea I'd be so fascinated by microfauna.
:bigeyes:
I reserved some rock and then went back with a bucket of salt water to transport the rock with all the life on it to the house. I bought a rock that had visible bristle worms (I know... some people go to great lengths to keep them OUT), pods, asterina starfish and feather dusters. When I got it home, I decided to quarantine the rock outside of the quarantine tank (lol) for a few days, just in case anything crazy came out of it. My husband was concerned and was making me rethink the idea, so the rock sat in the bucket of water for probably 3 days before I looked at it again. I was surprised to notice that the feather duster was still alive in the cooler water, but I couldn't see anything else visible on it anymore, so I tossed a heater in the bucket, a little frozen food, did a small water change and left it alone again for about a week.
The next weekend I still couldn't see anything else alive on it so I thought 'Meh. That's what a QT is for...' and put the rock into the nano.
Within about 10 minutes of hitting the water, that thing came alive. A BUNCH of bristle worms came out, little creepy crawly bugs (Pods, I think) climbing all over it, asterina starfish, multiple more feather dusters than I had even known where there... it was crazy.
Flash was super excited about it and started trying to eat bristle worms and pods right away.
Since that night, I haven't been able to see any worms, no feather dusters peeping out... but a few asterina starfish are loitering around. Either the rock inhabitants moved to other rocks, Flash ate them all, they died, or they are hiding in the rock again and maybe come out more at night.
At any rate, it was fun to watch. I had no idea I'd be so fascinated by microfauna.
:bigeyes:
SereneAquatic
New member
Live rock pics
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
SereneAquatic
New member
Well, the micro inhabitants were most certainly eaten by Flash. I never did see another pod, worm, duster, etc after that first night. He must have been so excited about the buffet that was laid out for him. 
We did add two nassarius snails, and I occasionally see the shell of one of them poking up in different places where he has hunkered down, but the other is more... elusive. I'm not sure where it is. I've tried digging around in the sand a little big in various places but he never appears. They also don't come up any more for food, which is strange. They must be nocturnal? I know at least the one is still alive because a couple of times I've brought him up out of the sand and he goes back in after a short time. It kind of stinks because I liked watching it move around the sand the first few days.
From where I sit right now, I see both tanks, and I am happy. Flash finally graduated to the display tank, along with 3 other fish that came from Divers Den. I considered putting them through the QT first, but honestly the only fish in the DT were STILL the two clown fish that we purchased in December, and they hide behind their rock ALL DAY LONG. It's rolling the dice, but at least one of the fish that I purchased needed a bigger tank and more stable parameters than the nano keeps currently, and the others were the 'bonded' gobies and their invisible shrimp. Kind of a long story... suffice it to say that what Divers Den sent me was a 'bonded' pair of gobies that have a huge size difference and spend all of their day on opposite sides of the tank, as well as an empty bag of rocks with no shrimp in it. I dont think the gobies are going to bond, since they were obviously put together with that idea by DD, but time will tell. Maybe I'll just relocate the little one to the nano tank and leave him there.
The other fish that went into the DT will probably get me a few frowns. Before the lecturing begins, let me say that this hobby has grabbed my family with full force. It's amazing how quickly we fell in love with it, and we know that a bigger tank is in our future... probably within the next few months. I regretted immediately the buying of a 90 gallon display. With only two clownfish, a fire shrimp and a few snails, the tank was already unsuitable because the fish we want to put into it will outgrow it. We are also running into compatibility issues because I LOVE the dwarf angels, but I want to keep corals. I LOVE pufferfish, but I also love crabs and shrimp. I want them all lol. In order to accomplish this, I have come to realize that the setup I REALLY want includes the flexibility I need for all of these things.
In order to accomodate what we know we want, we are actually considering turning the garage that is attached to the house into the fish and exercise room. When we bought the house we had talked about using it for additional living space because there is another garage on the property that is not attached to the house for vehicles and such. Now seems like the perfect time to do it. The concrete floor that is flat on the ground makes me a lot less nervous about keeping a 250 gallon tank (yeah... maybe) as well as other smaller tanks. We had a bathroom pipe burst in our home a year or two ago and it was a nightmare. I'm not really excited about re-doing everything again should one of these tanks fail catastrophically. There is also tons of available electrical circuits for use there, as well as being able to house our permanent RODI fixture. Trying to plan it all out though is going to take a minute.
I completely got sidetracked. Sorry. The other fish that we purchased and put into the tank is a hybrid powder blue tang. He is still little, at about 4.5 inches, with about that much more to grow according to Divers Den, and has acclimated well. Since the first hour or two he has been eating and hanging around with Flash. It took them a minute to come to an agreement... I actually captured the moment that they were both released into the tank at the same time and I'll put it into one of our future videos. I think Flash actually won that skirmish, despite being smaller... but now they seem like pals. They follow each other around the tank most of the day, when Flash isn't trying to irritate the clown fish. Their aggression levels seem evenly matched. I know that the PBT will outgrow this tank, and that he and Flash should be added late in the game, but honestly I dont see us housing a lot of peaceful fish. We like the fish with attitudes; the potential trouble makers. I dont intend to watch another fish bully another one to death and we'll be careful, but I think most of our fish that end up in the bigger tank will need to be able to hold their own.
I know that I'll need to stay on top of the water parameters with the PBT, but I'm OK with that. I'm using two powerheads, one AC and one DC, to change up the flow in the tank during the day. Periods of stronger current may be helpful with keeping the tang happy, plus I'd rather not have the cyano come back.
A couple weeks ago we also set up the skimmer that we'd ordered when we ordered the tank. The water was constantly cloudy, despite water changes and using a small bit of activated carbon for absorption. The skimmer has made a huge difference in the water quality and I'm glad we had it on hand. It is ALMOST too big for our sump though hehe. We had to do some thinking to get it in place. One of the things I'm definitely going to do differently on the next tank is in the sump planning. This sump is not ideal for having both a refugium and a skimmer... and in fact it makes keeping pods or anything else alive in there out of bounds. The next sump will have dedicated compartments for each of them, as well as not be located underneath the tank. I'd like to have a display refugium as part of the setup to allow for things that won't be compatible with primary tank members. I have my work cut out for me because I dont know a thing about how to properly plan a sump. I'll probably try to get feedback from the community on a good 'standard' sump I can buy or have made to do what I need to do. I know I can't build my own.
That's a lot of information in a quick update, and I know it's disjointed compared to how I normally write, but I have so much in my head right now that it's difficult to follow a straight line Hoping that if I get it all out there, then I can let it go for a minute. Onward!
We did add two nassarius snails, and I occasionally see the shell of one of them poking up in different places where he has hunkered down, but the other is more... elusive. I'm not sure where it is. I've tried digging around in the sand a little big in various places but he never appears. They also don't come up any more for food, which is strange. They must be nocturnal? I know at least the one is still alive because a couple of times I've brought him up out of the sand and he goes back in after a short time. It kind of stinks because I liked watching it move around the sand the first few days.
From where I sit right now, I see both tanks, and I am happy. Flash finally graduated to the display tank, along with 3 other fish that came from Divers Den. I considered putting them through the QT first, but honestly the only fish in the DT were STILL the two clown fish that we purchased in December, and they hide behind their rock ALL DAY LONG. It's rolling the dice, but at least one of the fish that I purchased needed a bigger tank and more stable parameters than the nano keeps currently, and the others were the 'bonded' gobies and their invisible shrimp. Kind of a long story... suffice it to say that what Divers Den sent me was a 'bonded' pair of gobies that have a huge size difference and spend all of their day on opposite sides of the tank, as well as an empty bag of rocks with no shrimp in it. I dont think the gobies are going to bond, since they were obviously put together with that idea by DD, but time will tell. Maybe I'll just relocate the little one to the nano tank and leave him there.
The other fish that went into the DT will probably get me a few frowns. Before the lecturing begins, let me say that this hobby has grabbed my family with full force. It's amazing how quickly we fell in love with it, and we know that a bigger tank is in our future... probably within the next few months. I regretted immediately the buying of a 90 gallon display. With only two clownfish, a fire shrimp and a few snails, the tank was already unsuitable because the fish we want to put into it will outgrow it. We are also running into compatibility issues because I LOVE the dwarf angels, but I want to keep corals. I LOVE pufferfish, but I also love crabs and shrimp. I want them all lol. In order to accomplish this, I have come to realize that the setup I REALLY want includes the flexibility I need for all of these things.
In order to accomodate what we know we want, we are actually considering turning the garage that is attached to the house into the fish and exercise room. When we bought the house we had talked about using it for additional living space because there is another garage on the property that is not attached to the house for vehicles and such. Now seems like the perfect time to do it. The concrete floor that is flat on the ground makes me a lot less nervous about keeping a 250 gallon tank (yeah... maybe) as well as other smaller tanks. We had a bathroom pipe burst in our home a year or two ago and it was a nightmare. I'm not really excited about re-doing everything again should one of these tanks fail catastrophically. There is also tons of available electrical circuits for use there, as well as being able to house our permanent RODI fixture. Trying to plan it all out though is going to take a minute.
I completely got sidetracked. Sorry. The other fish that we purchased and put into the tank is a hybrid powder blue tang. He is still little, at about 4.5 inches, with about that much more to grow according to Divers Den, and has acclimated well. Since the first hour or two he has been eating and hanging around with Flash. It took them a minute to come to an agreement... I actually captured the moment that they were both released into the tank at the same time and I'll put it into one of our future videos. I think Flash actually won that skirmish, despite being smaller... but now they seem like pals. They follow each other around the tank most of the day, when Flash isn't trying to irritate the clown fish. Their aggression levels seem evenly matched. I know that the PBT will outgrow this tank, and that he and Flash should be added late in the game, but honestly I dont see us housing a lot of peaceful fish. We like the fish with attitudes; the potential trouble makers. I dont intend to watch another fish bully another one to death and we'll be careful, but I think most of our fish that end up in the bigger tank will need to be able to hold their own.
I know that I'll need to stay on top of the water parameters with the PBT, but I'm OK with that. I'm using two powerheads, one AC and one DC, to change up the flow in the tank during the day. Periods of stronger current may be helpful with keeping the tang happy, plus I'd rather not have the cyano come back.
A couple weeks ago we also set up the skimmer that we'd ordered when we ordered the tank. The water was constantly cloudy, despite water changes and using a small bit of activated carbon for absorption. The skimmer has made a huge difference in the water quality and I'm glad we had it on hand. It is ALMOST too big for our sump though hehe. We had to do some thinking to get it in place. One of the things I'm definitely going to do differently on the next tank is in the sump planning. This sump is not ideal for having both a refugium and a skimmer... and in fact it makes keeping pods or anything else alive in there out of bounds. The next sump will have dedicated compartments for each of them, as well as not be located underneath the tank. I'd like to have a display refugium as part of the setup to allow for things that won't be compatible with primary tank members. I have my work cut out for me because I dont know a thing about how to properly plan a sump. I'll probably try to get feedback from the community on a good 'standard' sump I can buy or have made to do what I need to do. I know I can't build my own.
That's a lot of information in a quick update, and I know it's disjointed compared to how I normally write, but I have so much in my head right now that it's difficult to follow a straight line
Hoping that if I get it all out there, then I can let it go for a minute. Onward!
SereneAquatic
New member
I'm glad you are enjoying it. [emoji4] I know I'm probably not doing everything by the book, but it's my journey. I hope I don't look back one day and want to kick my own butt lol. I look forward to seeing your thread!
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aikenreefkeeper
Member
I noticed that you purchased your fish from DD. Was your experience good and would you do it again?
Thanks,
Thanks,
SereneAquatic
New member
I have done it twice. The Lemonpeel angel came from there, as well as this last order.
Other than the missing shrimp and the gobies that are obviously NOT a bonded pair, I can say that the fish have been healthy and all eating soon after arrival.
The other fish I have purchased elsewhere have all died with the exception of the bonded Clownfish. That includes the coal beauty from the other area on live aquaria.
The Divers Den fish seem to be much stronger and acclimate better, so yes. I will probably use them again.
I don't like killing things. [emoji54][emoji29][emoji17]
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SereneAquatic
New member
I was recently at the local fish store, and saw a clownfish I could not resist buying. It is a mature, yellow striped maroon clownfish... and it is absolutely gorgeous.
I know maroon's have a much more aggressive nature than many other clownfish, but he's so stunning, I'm willing to take a chance. I realize that an adult clown fish at the store probably means that he was terrorizing someone else's tank and was sold back... and if that turns out to be the case I will do the same.
Since I was already going to have to lower the salinity on the nano tank in order to acclimate him, I figured what the hell, let's get a spotted hawkfish (also potentially aggressive) and a few more turbo snails to put in the nano so I could migrate the nasso snails into the display tank.
There is one concern... Penelope. Penelope, the ocellaris clown, has been in the nano since we set it up helping to keep it cycled and ready for newcomers. While she did a terrific job of this, we now had to make a decision. Sell Penelope back to the store, or try to acclimate her into the main display tank, where the bonded pair of snowflake clowns (Hide and Seek) live.
I know this can be risky, but the display is 90 gallons, and the snowflakes have only EVER taken up about 1/4 of the tank as their territory, even when we added the powder blue tang (Jagang) and the lemonpeel angel (Flash).
I think this is worth trying.
We acclimated Penelope to the DT water and then turned her loose. Within just a few minutes, the snowflakes were showing signs of aggression and traveling well beyond their normal territory to investigate. It was late in the day and I knew I couldn't watch them for very long, so we drilled holes into the specimen container to make an acclimation box for Penelope.
For the next week, she stayed in the box, and the snowflakes continued to check her out for a few more days, becoming less and less interested.
Today, I decided it was time to try again.
A few hours ago, I released Penelope back into the main tank and she immediately swam right into the heart of Hide and Seek's territory, like she knew that was their spot and she was about to set things straight.
Penelope is much smaller than the snowflakes at about an inch and a half... still just a baby, while they are adults at two and a half to almost three inches long for the female.
I thought Penelope was nuts and wondered why she didn't just steer clear and stay on the opposite side of the tank. I've watched them for the past couple of hours, and it is fascinating. Maybe Penelope knows whats up after all.
For two hours, she has slowly allowed the snowflakes to drive her away from their territory. She retreats only a little, and usually comes back in an inch or so to wait for them to chase her away again. I have only seen a few actual occasions where they made contact with her... but there is lots of charging and false starts.
Penelope is holding her own... and slowly forcing them to decide how much of the tank is REALLY theirs. She backs off little by little, and they seem to be trying to figure out how many rocks in the tank are worth fighting over. Initially I thought Penelope must have a death wish, but this really is brilliant. I realize now that if she'd gone to the furthest point in the tank from their area (like she did on the first day), they would have gone to her and continued to harass her, essentially claiming the entire tank as their own. This way, they charge and then retreat to "their spot" while she continues to challenge where the boundary lays.
I'm going to continue watching them... but I have some hope that this may actually work out OK. I think they are off to a better start than they were a week ago, when they were all the way across the tank badgering her. Smart, Penelope. Good job. Hang in there kid! You just might get half the tank to yourself.
I do find it funny that the powder blue tang (Jagang) is supposed to be the most aggressive fish in the tank but he could care less about the rest of them. He just cruises around, eating from rocks and trailing Flash. I also haven't seen any aggression between the maroon clown and the hawk fish in the nano. They seem to like each other.
If Penelope never finds her own place, we're prepared to build her a permanent 'acclimation' box in the tank for her along the back wall on the other side of the tank, but I'm hoping that won't be necessary. I was prepared to sell her back to the store, but the rest of the family seems attached to Penelope... even though we said up front that she probably will not stay. :frog:
One other random observation... Nassarius snails suck. I never see them. They don't seem to do much in the way of cleaning a tank. Even though they look cool if you can ever get them out of the sand... I kind of think they're worthless.
I'll post pics of the new arrivals soon.
I know maroon's have a much more aggressive nature than many other clownfish, but he's so stunning, I'm willing to take a chance. I realize that an adult clown fish at the store probably means that he was terrorizing someone else's tank and was sold back... and if that turns out to be the case I will do the same.
Since I was already going to have to lower the salinity on the nano tank in order to acclimate him, I figured what the hell, let's get a spotted hawkfish (also potentially aggressive) and a few more turbo snails to put in the nano so I could migrate the nasso snails into the display tank.
There is one concern... Penelope. Penelope, the ocellaris clown, has been in the nano since we set it up helping to keep it cycled and ready for newcomers. While she did a terrific job of this, we now had to make a decision. Sell Penelope back to the store, or try to acclimate her into the main display tank, where the bonded pair of snowflake clowns (Hide and Seek) live.
I know this can be risky, but the display is 90 gallons, and the snowflakes have only EVER taken up about 1/4 of the tank as their territory, even when we added the powder blue tang (Jagang) and the lemonpeel angel (Flash).
I think this is worth trying.
We acclimated Penelope to the DT water and then turned her loose. Within just a few minutes, the snowflakes were showing signs of aggression and traveling well beyond their normal territory to investigate. It was late in the day and I knew I couldn't watch them for very long, so we drilled holes into the specimen container to make an acclimation box for Penelope.
For the next week, she stayed in the box, and the snowflakes continued to check her out for a few more days, becoming less and less interested.
Today, I decided it was time to try again.
A few hours ago, I released Penelope back into the main tank and she immediately swam right into the heart of Hide and Seek's territory, like she knew that was their spot and she was about to set things straight.
Penelope is much smaller than the snowflakes at about an inch and a half... still just a baby, while they are adults at two and a half to almost three inches long for the female.
I thought Penelope was nuts and wondered why she didn't just steer clear and stay on the opposite side of the tank. I've watched them for the past couple of hours, and it is fascinating. Maybe Penelope knows whats up after all.
For two hours, she has slowly allowed the snowflakes to drive her away from their territory. She retreats only a little, and usually comes back in an inch or so to wait for them to chase her away again. I have only seen a few actual occasions where they made contact with her... but there is lots of charging and false starts.
Penelope is holding her own... and slowly forcing them to decide how much of the tank is REALLY theirs. She backs off little by little, and they seem to be trying to figure out how many rocks in the tank are worth fighting over. Initially I thought Penelope must have a death wish, but this really is brilliant. I realize now that if she'd gone to the furthest point in the tank from their area (like she did on the first day), they would have gone to her and continued to harass her, essentially claiming the entire tank as their own. This way, they charge and then retreat to "their spot" while she continues to challenge where the boundary lays.
I'm going to continue watching them... but I have some hope that this may actually work out OK. I think they are off to a better start than they were a week ago, when they were all the way across the tank badgering her. Smart, Penelope. Good job. Hang in there kid! You just might get half the tank to yourself.
I do find it funny that the powder blue tang (Jagang) is supposed to be the most aggressive fish in the tank but he could care less about the rest of them. He just cruises around, eating from rocks and trailing Flash. I also haven't seen any aggression between the maroon clown and the hawk fish in the nano. They seem to like each other.
If Penelope never finds her own place, we're prepared to build her a permanent 'acclimation' box in the tank for her along the back wall on the other side of the tank, but I'm hoping that won't be necessary. I was prepared to sell her back to the store, but the rest of the family seems attached to Penelope... even though we said up front that she probably will not stay. :frog:
One other random observation... Nassarius snails suck. I never see them. They don't seem to do much in the way of cleaning a tank. Even though they look cool if you can ever get them out of the sand... I kind of think they're worthless.
I'll post pics of the new arrivals soon.
SereneAquatic
New member
Good News First: Penelope has successfully acclimated into the main display and found her place among the other clown fish. There haven't been any issues at all.
Bad News Second: The yellow striped maroon clown fish had either ich or marine velvet and passed away. We had him about two weeks and all of a sudden the white spots appeared. There were SO many spots that we were sure it was marine velvet at first, but after a day or so there were fewer spots and they were larger. The poor thing died before we could do much to help him.
The weird part is that the hawk fish that was also in the tank with him never got sick. Whether it was velvet or ich, he must have an immunity to it... but I know he can still be a carrier.
We are leaving for vacation for a couple days tomorrow morning, so when we return we're going to have to put the hawk fish through a copper regimen and leave the nano tank fallow for a time.
Once again I am thankful for the quarantine tank. I would have been so sad to bring that kind of illness into the main display and lose any of my other fish. I'm very disappointed that we lost the maroon clown... he was beautiful and was the reason I made the purchase that day. It just goes to show that a fish can appear perfectly healthy and still become ill. I know there's no way to know if the hawkfish gave it to the clown or if the clown already had it. Even though they were in separate tanks in the store, the water was all the same that ran through them so its impossible to know.
I do really enjoy watching the hawk fish though. I'm glad that I bought him and that he did not get sick. If he makes it through his medicated treatment I'll probably leave him in the hospital tank long enough for the nano to be fallow for a while, and then get something else to put into the nano with the hawk again for a time to ensure there are no further outbreaks. Call me crazy, but he won't be making it into the main display for a good long while.
On a separate note, I'm really sick of the Apex getting disconnected from Fusion every time the power goes out. :sad2: We have finally given up and hard wired it. Hopefully that will help.
Bad News Second: The yellow striped maroon clown fish had either ich or marine velvet and passed away.
We had him about two weeks and all of a sudden the white spots appeared. There were SO many spots that we were sure it was marine velvet at first, but after a day or so there were fewer spots and they were larger. The poor thing died before we could do much to help him. The weird part is that the hawk fish that was also in the tank with him never got sick. Whether it was velvet or ich, he must have an immunity to it... but I know he can still be a carrier.
We are leaving for vacation for a couple days tomorrow morning, so when we return we're going to have to put the hawk fish through a copper regimen and leave the nano tank fallow for a time.
Once again I am thankful for the quarantine tank. I would have been so sad to bring that kind of illness into the main display and lose any of my other fish. I'm very disappointed that we lost the maroon clown... he was beautiful and was the reason I made the purchase that day. It just goes to show that a fish can appear perfectly healthy and still become ill. I know there's no way to know if the hawkfish gave it to the clown or if the clown already had it. Even though they were in separate tanks in the store, the water was all the same that ran through them so its impossible to know.
I do really enjoy watching the hawk fish though. I'm glad that I bought him and that he did not get sick. If he makes it through his medicated treatment I'll probably leave him in the hospital tank long enough for the nano to be fallow for a while, and then get something else to put into the nano with the hawk again for a time to ensure there are no further outbreaks. Call me crazy, but he won't be making it into the main display for a good long while.
On a separate note, I'm really sick of the Apex getting disconnected from Fusion every time the power goes out. :sad2: We have finally given up and hard wired it. Hopefully that will help.
SereneAquatic
New member
SereneAquatic
New member
Noooooooooooooo!
Noooooooooooooo!
I am so p*ssed at myself right now! This hobby really tests your limits. We think we're so dang clever recreating our little oceans and then do something monumentally STUPID to screw it all up. :uzi::uzi::uzi:
In my previous post, I spoke about the maroon clown who came down ill after about two weeks in quarantine and died very suddenly. I posted the picture of the spots that he had, which were significantly bigger and less numerous than they had been in previous days. I'm fairly certain it was velvet, but it could have been ich.
The hawk fish that we purchased with him, who was also in the tank, never became ill and is still doing fine... but we were going to run him through a copper treatment as soon as we returned from vacation to make sure he's not a carrier before he goes into the main display.
Two days ago I did a water change on both tanks. I debated doing a change on the nano (quarantine) tank because of the risk of cross contaminating the buckets, but I figured I would clean the buckets well and then dry them for a while before I got them wet again. The weekend was busy, so the water that came out of the tanks was still sitting here, waiting to be dumped out.
Last night we heard a noise coming from the sump of the main display tank and found that the skimmer was over filling and spilling out. Apparently I had added too much water back into the tank during the water change.
We used a little return pump we have for water changes to pull some of the water out and into the waste water that was still there from the water change, but accidentally took a little too much out. The top off water was drizzling into the sump, which would lower the salinity.
You can see where this is going.
In a moment of sheer freaking idiocy, we decided to use a tiny bucket to put just a little water BACK into the sump. From the waste water remaining from the water changes. From the nano tank, that had the infected fish in it.
After about three scoops of the water went straight into the return pump area for the display tank I stopped dead and probably went white. :uzi::angryfire::headwally:
I had just dumped the water infected with ich or velvet into the display tank sump which was immediately pumped up into the display tank.
There are not enough emojis to express how I feel. Sick to my stomach is one. I probably just killed my fish.
Now ALL of the fish have to be treated, and there is no way we can buy enough basic tanks, including one long enough for the tang, to do a proper quarantine. Our only option is treating the display tank.
As we were about to start removing some of the live rock (to salvage what we can from the copper) I realized that once those rocks come out, we won't have enough water in the tank anymore. The RODI unit was started up and water was being made most of last night and this morning.
I only have enough Copper Power on hand for about 80 gallons of water (1 little 4oz bottle) which isn't enough to treat the tank at a proper level, especially considering that some rock and sand will have to remain and will absorb the copper.
:headwally::headwally:
THE PLAN OF ACTION
I usually add Selcon to the fish food a few times a week, but during treatment I'll be soaking all their food in that or Vitality+Garlic.
I can't freaking believe I did this. I'm hoping I can start the copper treatment before the disease really takes hold. I know that whatever rock and sand remains in the tank will be forfeit after the treatment and that the nano and the rock/sand we remove will have to run fallow for a long time before we can use it again.
One thing I'm not sure of is whether or not to treat with some kind of antibiotic/antiseptic medicine after the copper is done. What would I use?
This really sucks and I feel terrible. I hope they all survive, but I know how fast it killed the maroon clown. I am not optimistic. The powder blue tang will probably show signs first if it takes hold, and I'll be watching closely.
ARRGH!
If anyone has any advise, it would be greatly appreciated. :sad1:
Noooooooooooooo!
I am so p*ssed at myself right now! This hobby really tests your limits. We think we're so dang clever recreating our little oceans and then do something monumentally STUPID to screw it all up. :uzi::uzi::uzi:
In my previous post, I spoke about the maroon clown who came down ill after about two weeks in quarantine and died very suddenly. I posted the picture of the spots that he had, which were significantly bigger and less numerous than they had been in previous days. I'm fairly certain it was velvet, but it could have been ich.
The hawk fish that we purchased with him, who was also in the tank, never became ill and is still doing fine... but we were going to run him through a copper treatment as soon as we returned from vacation to make sure he's not a carrier before he goes into the main display.
Two days ago I did a water change on both tanks. I debated doing a change on the nano (quarantine) tank because of the risk of cross contaminating the buckets, but I figured I would clean the buckets well and then dry them for a while before I got them wet again. The weekend was busy, so the water that came out of the tanks was still sitting here, waiting to be dumped out.
Last night we heard a noise coming from the sump of the main display tank and found that the skimmer was over filling and spilling out. Apparently I had added too much water back into the tank during the water change.
We used a little return pump we have for water changes to pull some of the water out and into the waste water that was still there from the water change, but accidentally took a little too much out. The top off water was drizzling into the sump, which would lower the salinity.
You can see where this is going.
In a moment of sheer freaking idiocy, we decided to use a tiny bucket to put just a little water BACK into the sump. From the waste water remaining from the water changes. From the nano tank, that had the infected fish in it.
After about three scoops of the water went straight into the return pump area for the display tank I stopped dead and probably went white. :uzi::angryfire::headwally:
I had just dumped the water infected with ich or velvet into the display tank sump which was immediately pumped up into the display tank.
There are not enough emojis to express how I feel. Sick to my stomach is one. I probably just killed my fish.
Now ALL of the fish have to be treated, and there is no way we can buy enough basic tanks, including one long enough for the tang, to do a proper quarantine. Our only option is treating the display tank.
As we were about to start removing some of the live rock (to salvage what we can from the copper) I realized that once those rocks come out, we won't have enough water in the tank anymore. The RODI unit was started up and water was being made most of last night and this morning.
I only have enough Copper Power on hand for about 80 gallons of water (1 little 4oz bottle) which isn't enough to treat the tank at a proper level, especially considering that some rock and sand will have to remain and will absorb the copper.
:headwally::headwally:
THE PLAN OF ACTION
- Make enough new salt water to offset the rocks coming out of the tank and to house the live rock we remove to keep it alive
- Remove the rocks and about half the sand into the salt water to run fallow for a while
- Remove the inverts from the display tank and acclimate them into the nano QT
- Add PVC caves into the display tank for the fish to hide in
- Acclimate the hawk fish from the nano QT to the main display
- Point the power heads at the surface to ensure proper aeration
- Remove the activated carbon from the sump and turn off the skimmer (this might be turned back on at some point... there doesn't seem to be a good answer about whether or not to run it)
- Remove most of the chaeto into the nano tank... there doesn't seem to be a good consensus about whether or not it will survive or not in the copper. It probably will absorb it.
- Add the full 4oz of Copper Power to the tank... it isnt enough but it's a start
- Ensure the ATO is full
- Add the filter socks into the sump
- Buy more Copper Power (it's actually already ordered from Amazon and should arrive soon)
- Test the copper levels and then add more Copper Power to reach proper levels and maintain for 4 weeks
I usually add Selcon to the fish food a few times a week, but during treatment I'll be soaking all their food in that or Vitality+Garlic.
I can't freaking believe I did this. I'm hoping I can start the copper treatment before the disease really takes hold. I know that whatever rock and sand remains in the tank will be forfeit after the treatment and that the nano and the rock/sand we remove will have to run fallow for a long time before we can use it again.
One thing I'm not sure of is whether or not to treat with some kind of antibiotic/antiseptic medicine after the copper is done. What would I use?
This really sucks and I feel terrible. I hope they all survive, but I know how fast it killed the maroon clown. I am not optimistic. The powder blue tang will probably show signs first if it takes hold, and I'll be watching closely.
ARRGH!
If anyone has any advise, it would be greatly appreciated. :sad1:
SereneAquatic
New member
It's been over a month since that debacle above. So far, the only casualty of this process has been the goby... he was there one day and then gone the next. I have no idea what happened to him.
A week or so ago we noticed spots appearing on the Tang, just as we were about to cease copper treatment. There were only a few spots, but he was acting strange, hiding, scratching on sand and rocks, etc. We did a large water change, added a bit more copper... and he made an almost immediate recovery.
I'm hoping the worst is behind us, but I'm keeping the copper levels a little higher than they were for the first month, and making sure the food gets vitamins and selcon frequently.
The tank looks so nasty though, even after the recent water change. There doesn't seem to be any help for it. It's very disheartening, but I'm trying to hang in there. I've considered selling everything and calling it a day, but that really isn't what I want.
The fact that the fish are doing OK in the copper treatment still has me feeling hopeful, and I am at least comforted by the fact that we didn't assume that nothing bad made it into the display with our little mistake. It did. We're treating for it the best way we can.
Wish us luck...
A week or so ago we noticed spots appearing on the Tang, just as we were about to cease copper treatment. There were only a few spots, but he was acting strange, hiding, scratching on sand and rocks, etc. We did a large water change, added a bit more copper... and he made an almost immediate recovery.
I'm hoping the worst is behind us, but I'm keeping the copper levels a little higher than they were for the first month, and making sure the food gets vitamins and selcon frequently.
The tank looks so nasty though, even after the recent water change. There doesn't seem to be any help for it. It's very disheartening, but I'm trying to hang in there. I've considered selling everything and calling it a day, but that really isn't what I want.
The fact that the fish are doing OK in the copper treatment still has me feeling hopeful, and I am at least comforted by the fact that we didn't assume that nothing bad made it into the display with our little mistake. It did. We're treating for it the best way we can.
Wish us luck...
I've been following your progress. I'm very impressed with how much you've learned already. Of course you've made mistakes-we all have. What I find impressive is that you do your (own) research and figure stuff out. Then you make a plan and follow through. Smart!
You say your tank looks nasty. Is it algae? If so, you have reached the threshold. It's at this point where the majority of aquarium beginners quit the hobby. If you can hang on and keep fighting, you'll break through and defeat it. I wish I could tell you exactly what to do, but every aquarium is unique. I have no doubt that with research and hard work, you will succeed.
Thanks for sharing your experience! You're very brave to put it all out there, on RC, for everyone to see. I have enjoyed reading. It's actually kind of comforting to 're-live' the triumphs and mistakes you are going through. I've made every mistake you have, and more!
You say your tank looks nasty. Is it algae? If so, you have reached the threshold. It's at this point where the majority of aquarium beginners quit the hobby. If you can hang on and keep fighting, you'll break through and defeat it. I wish I could tell you exactly what to do, but every aquarium is unique. I have no doubt that with research and hard work, you will succeed.
Thanks for sharing your experience! You're very brave to put it all out there, on RC, for everyone to see. I have enjoyed reading. It's actually kind of comforting to 're-live' the triumphs and mistakes you are going through. I've made every mistake you have, and more!
SereneAquatic
New member
Thank you so much for the encouragement. It has been a very trying month but I am slowly finding the reasons I started in this hobby again and it helps keep me going. I came really close to giving up when the tang started getting sick. It was shocking to me that he could be fine for a month and then start showing signs of the same thing that had rapidly killed my maroon clown, despite the copper. I am heartened that he seems to have recovered. It's the first time we have been able to turn the tide on an illness. I hope he continues to hang in there.
It's good to know that others have experienced some of the same things... It feels like a very high mountain some days.
The tank looks really strange. The rocks are kind of mottled with algae, and they just seem dirty, but within the last week or ten days we have seen the first real coraline algae taking hold. I think, strangely, it likes the copper? Maybe it's just time for it to establish.
I also haven't been running the skimmer since we started the copper treatment. The water is kind of greenish blue and scum builds up quickly on the glass if i don't scrape it. There is still a small bit of chaeto in the sump, but though the under side still stays green, the top gets black and nasty looking, I guess from the copper. It comes clean fairly quickly when washed.
Water changes do make it look reasonably better, but it definitely doesn't look as nice as it did a month or two ago. Below is the only pic i can find on my phone that kind of shows the rocks and sand.
Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
SereneAquatic
New member
Today I finally managed to get my Apex connected to Fusion again. It seems that I had accidentally blocked the IP address on the router on one of my 'Keep the kids off the wifi unless they are on approved devices with time blocks' missions. I accidentally blocked access to the Apex in my haste.
When I got in to start looking, I found that my primary heater is not working. The temp log has been in the backup range, which is 74.5-76 degrees, where the primary had been keeping it at 76.7-78 degrees.
Disaster averted, and I had no idea. It seems that my 'glorified power strip' paid for itself somewhere between the last time I lost connection and today.
That heater is only about 8 months old and it bit the dust... but it was fairly cheap and the Apex kept it working in the proper range for all that time. I guess I'll go ahead and buy another!
Thanks, backup heater. You're a lifesaver.
When I got in to start looking, I found that my primary heater is not working. The temp log has been in the backup range, which is 74.5-76 degrees, where the primary had been keeping it at 76.7-78 degrees.
Disaster averted, and I had no idea. It seems that my 'glorified power strip' paid for itself somewhere between the last time I lost connection and today.
That heater is only about 8 months old and it bit the dust... but it was fairly cheap and the Apex kept it working in the proper range for all that time. I guess I'll go ahead and buy another!
Thanks, backup heater. You're a lifesaver.
SereneAquatic
New member
Note to self: Do not buy another Cobolt Neo Flow powerhead. It was nice to have the DC controller, but now that it's dead (only three months after purchase), I regret spending the money on it. Looks like I'll be needing another powerhead, in addition to the new heater.
SereneAquatic
New member
This hobby never ceases to surprise me. Nothing new has been introduced to these tanks in MONTHS, since before our copper treatments began.
A few interesting things to note:
1. Every time we try to reduce the copper in the display tank, the powder blue tang gets sick again. The Copper Power is enough to keep the nasties at bay, but as soon as its level drops, the crap takes hold and my fish deteriorates. The only way we're going to be able to have our tank back is to go through a tank transfer series, and honestly I've been procrastinating on doing it. A new promotion at work has kept me very busy and I have not had the time or energy to take it on. I know the day is coming soon because I'm tired of the tank looking like crap.
2. We thought that the rocks were finally growing coraline algae but after a few months with it covering the rocks, sand, walls, powerheads... and now seeing it waste away I guess it was some reeeaaallly thick cyano?? It was much harder than cyano we'd seen previously and such a beautiful purple color... just like coraline, that I'm still not sure what it was or what has happened. I think the copper contributed one way or the other... but now I'm seeing it go away inexplicably. It's shameful to admit that I have not done a water change on the display tank in weeks... maybe a couple of months now. The copper treatment is expensive! Another thing on my to do list.
3. The quarantine tank (nano) has been a whole other universe and has really had most of my attention these past couple of months. While the 90 gallon display suffers with its copper treatment, the crabs that were placed into the 30 gallon are hilarious and fascinating. I love feeding them shrimp and watching the hairy anemone crab run off to a corner with his piece. The thin stripe, while smaller, is the more vicious of the two. He has taken out two large turbo snails and took their shells, even though the last one is WAY too big for him. He refuses to downgrade. I kid you not, the snail shell he has now is about 3 inches across... and he can hardly carry it. It dwarfs him and he drags it around like a horse pulling a log. He's ridiculous. Eventually I'd like to put him down in the sump of the main display. The hairy legged anemone crab (and his hitchhiker anemone) are rather docile and don't seem preoccupied with killing things. You know what they say though... never trust a crab. I wondered recently if the aiptasia came from the crab... if maybe his anemone was really aiptasia all this time, but they look completely different. I think I identified the species of anemone that he carries previously as calliactis polypus in the hormathiidae family. I never saw the anemone until he molted (or perhaps had his legs ripped off by the thinstripe??). I kept him in a safe box in the tank until one day he magically 'molted' again and had giant legs once more. We called him Voldemort for a while... if I can get a good picture uploaded you'll see why.
4. We did move the two snowflake clownfish into the nano tank so they would leave Penelope, the small Oscellaris clownfish, in peace. Separating them seemed best. While they sometimes tolerated the little one, I was seeing more persecution as time went on. Penelope has much more personality and spunk than the two nitwitted snowflakes that I'm tempted to sell them. They are a beautiful, bonded pair... but absolutely boring to watch. They never move. Never do a thing but hang out in one spot. If I have to choose between them for the display tank, Penelope is staying and they will go.
5. Somehow, beyond explanation, the nano tank had a small aiptasia growing in it recently. There was only one, and it was about the size of a quarter so I squirted it with lemon juice and am on the look out for any more that might appear. I have no idea how it came to be after all this time.
6. I think I have identified Spirorbis snails in the nano tank on the back wall. They just showed up in the last week or so, and are probably a result of the lack of water changes in the tanks. I'll keep an eye on them, but so far harmless. I dont really want them spreading all over the tank though.
The illness in the tank really sapped my willpower and it has taken me some time to really decide that I DO want to keep the tank and I do want to go through all the hassle of re-establishing it's prior balance. I'll upload some recent photos.
Happy reefing!
A few interesting things to note:
1. Every time we try to reduce the copper in the display tank, the powder blue tang gets sick again. The Copper Power is enough to keep the nasties at bay, but as soon as its level drops, the crap takes hold and my fish deteriorates. The only way we're going to be able to have our tank back is to go through a tank transfer series, and honestly I've been procrastinating on doing it. A new promotion at work has kept me very busy and I have not had the time or energy to take it on. I know the day is coming soon because I'm tired of the tank looking like crap.
2. We thought that the rocks were finally growing coraline algae but after a few months with it covering the rocks, sand, walls, powerheads... and now seeing it waste away I guess it was some reeeaaallly thick cyano?? It was much harder than cyano we'd seen previously and such a beautiful purple color... just like coraline, that I'm still not sure what it was or what has happened. I think the copper contributed one way or the other... but now I'm seeing it go away inexplicably. It's shameful to admit that I have not done a water change on the display tank in weeks... maybe a couple of months now. The copper treatment is expensive! Another thing on my to do list.
3. The quarantine tank (nano) has been a whole other universe and has really had most of my attention these past couple of months. While the 90 gallon display suffers with its copper treatment, the crabs that were placed into the 30 gallon are hilarious and fascinating. I love feeding them shrimp and watching the hairy anemone crab run off to a corner with his piece. The thin stripe, while smaller, is the more vicious of the two. He has taken out two large turbo snails and took their shells, even though the last one is WAY too big for him. He refuses to downgrade. I kid you not, the snail shell he has now is about 3 inches across... and he can hardly carry it. It dwarfs him and he drags it around like a horse pulling a log. He's ridiculous. Eventually I'd like to put him down in the sump of the main display. The hairy legged anemone crab (and his hitchhiker anemone) are rather docile and don't seem preoccupied with killing things. You know what they say though... never trust a crab. I wondered recently if the aiptasia came from the crab... if maybe his anemone was really aiptasia all this time, but they look completely different. I think I identified the species of anemone that he carries previously as calliactis polypus in the hormathiidae family. I never saw the anemone until he molted (or perhaps had his legs ripped off by the thinstripe??). I kept him in a safe box in the tank until one day he magically 'molted' again and had giant legs once more. We called him Voldemort for a while... if I can get a good picture uploaded you'll see why.
4. We did move the two snowflake clownfish into the nano tank so they would leave Penelope, the small Oscellaris clownfish, in peace. Separating them seemed best. While they sometimes tolerated the little one, I was seeing more persecution as time went on. Penelope has much more personality and spunk than the two nitwitted snowflakes that I'm tempted to sell them. They are a beautiful, bonded pair... but absolutely boring to watch. They never move. Never do a thing but hang out in one spot. If I have to choose between them for the display tank, Penelope is staying and they will go.
5. Somehow, beyond explanation, the nano tank had a small aiptasia growing in it recently. There was only one, and it was about the size of a quarter so I squirted it with lemon juice and am on the look out for any more that might appear. I have no idea how it came to be after all this time.
6. I think I have identified Spirorbis snails in the nano tank on the back wall. They just showed up in the last week or so, and are probably a result of the lack of water changes in the tanks. I'll keep an eye on them, but so far harmless. I dont really want them spreading all over the tank though.
The illness in the tank really sapped my willpower and it has taken me some time to really decide that I DO want to keep the tank and I do want to go through all the hassle of re-establishing it's prior balance. I'll upload some recent photos.
Happy reefing!
