A take on BB methodology.

[PUGroyale]

I had the same problems,going BB.I gave up after close to a year of many deaths,Most corals only lasting a few months.I was running close to 13,000 gph in 125g so dirt was not settling.
I did not cook my rock so i dont know if that was it or not.But i went back to a DSB and new rocks.as much flow as the sand can handle and my tank is thriving again.
I may try BB again because i liked it,but not for 2-5 years

Put me in that same boat Bomber says he doesn't think it was my nitrates 5-10ppm so I'm at a loss about my losses :lol: But I had STN around some bases and worse yet... tissue loss on coral tips... almost like they were getting burned somehow. The tissue would become very thin and then recede, next thing I knew I had diatoms on the exposed skeleton. Only some corals were affected others not at all It wasn't until I added sand back in and got my nitrates to 0 that the problem stopped. My ORA chips acro I had to frag back several times and has finally recovered and almost grown over the last of the algea

As I have stated before, I understand the logic of BB systems and actually liked the look ~ it was just a terribly frustrating experience for me.

 

[SCARYBO]

As I posted earlier, I am having the same problem with nitrates. I feel BB is a great system. There are some critical steps in my opinion that need to be followed. It would be great to have a forum focused on BB. It is much more to the system then just pulling the sand out and happy reefing. IMO you dont have a huge margin for error. Sand beds suck up nutrients until they are saturated. That gives you a safety belt for husbandry errors. Now I agree that belt has the potential to break sometime in the future, but it works at least temporarily. With BB, if you do not get the nutrients out immediately it can cause problems very fast.

 

[kimoyo]

If you add rock to a tank that has not been "cooked" will the phosphates eventually be removed? I have added uncooked rock to my tank and hope I won't be plagued forever with the phosphates.

AlgaeMan,
Are you having problems with the base rock you got from reeferrocks? Does base rock need to be cooked also?
Paul

 

[Bomber]

Put me in that same boat Bomber says he doesn't think it was my nitrates 5-10ppm so I'm at a loss about my losses :lol:

and I also told you I thought it was phosphates.

It's extremely hard to make these systems phosphate limited and measurable nitrates have to come from somewhere - and that somewhere usually contains a lot of phosphate too.

Plus, what you described - recession and tissue loss starting from the base is usually caused by phosphate wicking up into the coral skeleton.
Just because you put a thin layer of tissue on it and call it a coral, does not change what it is. It's just a liver live rock. LOL

 

[PUGroyale]

and I also told you I thought it was phosphates.

Please bear with me... I'm quite the novice. I only said you thought it wasn't nitrates so people reading my analysis would know I was incorrect. Not to dispute.

So phosphates can cause tissue damage, STN, RTN? I thought elevated phosphate levels caused zoox production/density to increase.

 

[FastFish720]

Bomber could you go deeper into the part about having high water flow with suspension, but not everything being removed? Was it the fact that it wasn't going over the overflow and reaching the skimmer etc?

 

[PUGroyale]

BB is much more than just pulling the sand out and happy reefing.

Anyone thinking of going BB and especially those thinking of switching over an existing tank should really heed this warning.
Hope you don't mind me paraphrasing you a little on the quote

 

[wrassie86]

One thing i knew before going BB.Is that nitrates can go astray real fast, if you are not carefull.And was part of the problem that pre BB er's faced yrs ago.
But i can say my first few months of BB were great,then things went down hill real fast.I like the system i just wish it would have worked me.

 

[wrassie86]

Please bear with me... I'm quite the novice. I only said you thought it wasn't nitrates so people reading my analysis would know I was incorrect. Not to dispute.

So phosphates can cause tissue damage, STN, RTN? I thought elevated phosphate levels caused zoox production/density to increase.

From all the reading ive done, Phosphates will cause those problems as suggested.Just as i belive nitrates will also, if there to high.

 

[kimoyo]

AlgaeMan,
Are you having problems with the base rock you got from reeferrocks? Does base rock need to be cooked also?
Paul

Let me rephrase this, does anyone know if dead base rock should be cooked also and why?

 

[SeanT]

What do you consider "dead" base rock?

 

[kimoyo]

The dried out rocks from reeferrocks that algaeman put in his tank.

 

[AlgaeMan]

Are you having problems with the base rock you got from reeferrocks? Does base rock need to be cooked also?

No problems here. I cooked 90% of my dry base rock. Any rock you get needs to be cooked whether is be LR or dry base rock. I did add a few pieces that I didn't cook, but don't see any issues yet. I was just paranoid about it after I read some of this thread.

 

[kimoyo]

I guess I'm confused about why or if we should cook dry "dead" base rock?

 

[Mike O'Brien]

Same reason you would cook live rock. To let the bacteria remove nutrient's.

 

[kimoyo]

what bacteria, assuming you didn't seed it yet?

 

[MiddletonMark]

Because before that rock got dry, it was loaded with detritus.
And drying it out doesn't remove any detritus.

I guess IMO it's not going to lose any life/coralline/etc - so why not?

I consider it much like the rotting rock I got from a tear-down of a dying tank a few years back. A prolonged period of `cooking'-equivalent had the rock clean, beautiful - without the hair algae/etc that plagued the prior owner

Sure, maybe you don't have to. But given how much you're investing - why not? You aren't losing a thing, other than stuff you might want gone.

Just my take on the dry/base rock thing.

 

[Mike O'Brien]

you dont need to seed those bacteria, they fall out of the air

 

[fishdoc11]

Two questions

If a coral can wick up PO4 through it skeleton and super glue protects the initial "bald" area on the bottom of a frag when you mount it does the coral create some sort of barrier underneath the encrusting part to seal itself off?

Bomber,
What source do you use for CaCl(brand etc...)? Off topic but I was just curious as I've been making my own two part lately

thanks, Chris

 

[Bomber]

Two questions

If a coral can wick up PO4 through it skeleton and super glue protects the initial "bald" area on the bottom of a frag when you mount it does the coral create some sort of barrier underneath the encrusting part to seal itself off?

No, uh yes, well maybe. LOL

Depends on the coral Chris. You can crack open a boulder type - don't do this - and you'll find the usual assortment of boring sponges, worms, etc etc just like you would find in any live rock.

We buy 50lb bags from a chemical supply in Miami. Just cause it's cheap. Look at the food/restaurant/grocery supply wholesale supply houses. They have it too.
Oh, it's just calcium chloride.