A thread for supporters of quality high end reef equipment

[Mr. Brooks]

Does being expensive make a product "high end" or does quality make the product "high end"? Because I think its foolish to support "high end" equipment if only because it cost more.

In my view quality, reliability, responsible business practices, innovation and customer service make a product high end.

That's a lot to ask for from the affordable brands I believe you were referring to.

 

[aandfsoccr04]

Love the thread. Own none of the gear. If I were a bachelor without a family and a budget, I'd dump my t5s and jaebos and bubble magus in a heartbeat. I'd love to own kessils, radions, and tunzes. I fully believe them to be superior.

I'm glad I'm a bachelor with no family or budget. I own ol trusty metal halides, Ecotech, Tunze, Royal exclusive, and Apex.

 

[Panta rhei]

I would add spares availability (even for old models) as an high end feature

 

[jschultzbass]

Just because someone wants to "invest" in beter equipment that doesn't mean they are bashing less expensive alternatives. The OP merely wanted to start a thread where people who like high-end equipment can post about that and I think that's a GREAT idea. Unfortunately it's being de-railed into a bicker/argument over less expensive equipment vs expensive.

This as well. I have nothing against cheaper equipment but when a company like Jaebo with no business morals 100% copies Tunze and then uses something very close to the Vortech name (MP40 vs WP40) it ****es me off. Also being made in America has nothing to do with being quality. The OP didn't say that. Most of the best skimmers are made overseas. Lets get this thread back on track!
I love high end equipment. I went cheap once and regret it to this day. My current 180 uses ATI, Tunze and Reef Octopus for the skimmer. My 300 build is going to use PacSun Pandora for lighting, Ecotech MP60, Reef Dynamics for skimmer (should be delivered on Friday!).

 

[GroktheCube]

I've needed to replace nearly every "cheap" piece of equipment I've purchased, and I've only had my tank a year.

In the end, I often ended up paying far more by cheaping out than I would have buying quality first. I think pumps were my biggest money sink.

 

[jschultzbass]

Love your boxer by the way Mr. Brooks. I have one myself and foster boxers for Minnesota Boxer Rescue.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

Love your boxer by the way Mr. Brooks. I have one myself and foster boxers for Minnesota Boxer Rescue.

That's awesome! I adopted my Boxer from Boxer rescue in Burbank CA.

 

[slief]

Compare this to a Jaguar and a Honda Civic, just because one is cheaper, doesnt mean at all that it isnt a extremly well built and dependable product. Sure the Honda doesnt have WIFI, or TV's in the roof, or leather, etc etc. but you will be able to put 300k miles on it without much maintenance at all, the Jaguar will be a totally different story.

The same goes for ALL products. So far the cheap chinese powerheads seem to be a quality product. Its not a fad, its a high quality AFFORDABLE product.

Does being expensive make a product "high end" or does quality make the product "high end"? Because I think its foolish to support "high end" equipment if only because it cost more.

Honda may be more reliable than Jag despite the fact that Jag produces much higher quality cars which much high quality materials but on that note, Honda is way more reliable and high quality than a Kia.

That said, the cheap Chinese pumps are not what I would consider to be quality. They use cheap shoddy power supplies (I'm in the computer manufacturing business and know a thing or two about power supplies) and it's not if but when one of those power supplies catches on fire. You don't get quality "engineered controllable pumps with quality power supplies for that price point. I won't even get into the manufacturer support or lack of. You really believe for that kind of price you are getting quality electronics and quality motor blocks that are well sealed for their lifetime and not prone to electrical leaks?? Really? Give it time and you might change your mind when people chasing stray current find a common denominator.

Sure the high end stuff fails to. Mercedes has the occasional lemon just like BMW, Porsche, Bentley and Rolls. You can't however compare the quality of materials of any of those cars to your typical Honda or better yet, Kia.

That said, there are plenty of quality products that are manufactured in China. The difference is those products are manufactured by companies with transparent quality controls. Companies that have nothing to hide which are backed by great engineering support and do the R&D as needed or are contract manufacturers building products for well know household brands. The companies in China who build cheap counterfeits and knock offs are anything but transparent. They could give a crap about you or me or your home or the quality of their products. They are interested in one thing and one thing only. Money!

 

[origreefer]

I've needed to replace nearly every "cheap" piece of equipment I've purchased, and I've only had my tank a year.

In the end, I often ended up paying far more by cheaping out than I would have buying quality first. I think pumps were my biggest money sink.

Totally agree. I understand some can't afford better quality equipment and the Chinese stuff fit their budget. Nothing wrong with that. But as someone who owns a retail store who has seen virtually all of our North American products shifted to the orient, I can say without question the Chinese stuff is pure junk. Falls apart, breaks easier, lower quality materials, lasts way less, and all that with zero customer service. Try getting something from China repaired. It's basically throw away.

I only have one piece of Chinese equipment for my system, a biopellet reactor but I ditched their pump for a Tunze. I would never use anything with moving parts or electronics from China for my system. Why? They will fail prematurely.

 

[Billabong]

When I buy new equipment, I always do my research. If not much research exists on a particular product I reach out to the manufacturer and ask my questions directly. I even let them know what units in addition to theirs that I'm considering. I let THEM try and sell me on what a product can do for me.

Over the years, I started with cheap equipment and eventually upgraded to name brand equipment as I saved up for it. Truthfully I have the same failure rate with (cheap chinese products and name brand products.) - In many cases the chinese products just sent me a new one.. where-as the (name brand ones) required me to ship products back or pay for expensive replacement parts.

I do not support the Elitest attitude that many people on RC and some other forums adopt. I know people running systems that will put 90% of the people using high end equipment to SHAME using nothing but water changes, a seaclone skimmer and some diy supplements.

I see people everyday dropping bonus checks and tuitions on high end equipment and can't keep Aiptasia alive. I am 80% of husbandry and 20% equipment when it comes to keeping tanks alive and thriving.

That guy using filterbags filled with phosban and carbon that cost him 5 bucks is just as effective as that guy using 2 Dedicated Geo-Reef Reactors that cost like 400.

That guy using some modded maxijets for flow is doing quite alright at a cost below 100 dollars for 4 pumps.. Vs... 800 Dollars for 2 Vortechs...

My point is that high end equipment is a luxury and in some cases a nuisance (Taking a Reactor Offline/Disconnecting Tubes/Rinsing New Media..) vs (Remove bag of carbon, rinse out, add new carbon rinse, in bag.. drop in sump.)

As a responsible reefer, I belive its our job to foster newbies into the hobby. I have NEVER reccomended going straight high equipment for a newbie before explaining the low-tech way of doing things. I always give both aspects and their merits. Also always weigh performance vs cost. My SKIMZ SM201 Skimmer handily outperforms the equivalent Bubble King Skimmer at 1/8th the cost. I know.. because I have them both.

I'm with you man, Price doesn't dictate quality. There's a lot of products out there that aren't worth the price that they sold it for.

One thing that a lot of "elitest" do is forget why they're in this hobby, it's not to promote companies that don't need to be promoted. I'm sure they don't need validation from us to continue pumping out products (good or bad) There's a lot on noses in the air when people talk about there equipment for their tank, great for them, but that's the end of their journey. They can't grow a coral to save their lives. Which is why we should be in this hobby, to enjoy it, to enjoy keeping a slice of the ocean in our living rooms, offices etc. And it doesn't matter if you spent $15K on your setup or $1k, if it makes you happy then do it.

Mr. Brooks,

you don't have to put your nose in the air saying that we need to get behind these companies. As already stated as long as they stay innovative and continue to stay ahead of the competition then they'll be fine. But understand that their competition just may very well be the "low quality, dirt cheap", "Chinese built reef equipment"

I'm a strategist that combs through tons of legal docs to try and figure out the intention of particular laws and bills. And I would almost be led to believe that you have a dog in the fight, but I think Ron Reefman got it wrong it's not fear of a global market (although I think that sirreal63 is. Sirrea I can talk for days on that subject to explain that we did it to ourselves, not by buying foreign made goods but making US goods so expensive in order to pay the wages and lifestyles we as Americans have become so accustom to... but it becomes very political and not appropriate for this site) Mr Brooks, I think you own or are looking to own a "quality high end reef company" and based on your posts, I could even speculate as to which company it is. And there's nothing wrong with that except you shroud it in a thread to gauge peoples opinion.

I don't like the all encompassing, "you get what you pay for" no we don't... if you research and ask the right questions you're going to get a product that is reasonably priced and last a long time. If you want the bells and whistles then go ahead spend your money.

 

[Mr. Brooks]

I really didn't intend to be elitest. It's just frustrating to see companies I've gotten behind and have had a positive experience with go out of business or leave the industry. I really wanted this thread to be more positive and uplifting. A place for people to simply tell us what they like about their high end equipment. My frustration must've come through in what I wrote. I apologize for rubbing anyone the wrong way.