Acclimation Box Method for Anemone Hosting
- Thread starter kingfisherflesh
- Start date
psusocr
Active member
All i want is for my clowns to go in their nem..HOWEVER, i let them be, if they go in they go in, if not theres nothing i can do about it. I think people should just be knowledgable to buy a compatible clown/nem combo that occurs in nature and wait it out. Especially as stated if the clowns are very young and captive bred..IMHO it adds a whole new element.
elegance coral
They call me EC
I was really worried about this fish for about 24 hours. It hid in the rocks, breathing very heavy, color was pale, and looked to be on the verge of death. The next day, it did come out. Its color looked better, its breathing had improved, and it was shedding a layer of slime. I look at this like a snake bite. Some people survive. Some don't. It's never a good thing though.
kingfisherflesh
New member
This thread is not "stories about how random coral/anemone killed my clownfish".
Lets keep those separate.
I advertised this method with BTA. Honestly, I was more worried about the BTA than I ever was with the clowns.
Good to see that at least one person on this thread now has a legitimate claim to losing a clown with this method.
I would still stick with my statements that generally anemone's do not eat healthy fish.
Again, there are always exceptions and some anemones are more picivorous than others. The size of anemone and fish also play a role in this.
I realize that the anemone is the "host" the host "fish" would be the animal that is being hosted. I am also aware that the clownfish builds up a slime coat to protect itself from the anemone...healthy fish have healthy slime coats. Hence my healthy fish statement.
When I returned my anemone to the DT...I gave it some time to get settled so that hopefully the clowns wouldnt poke it around forever like they did when I first introduced the two. (The female clown actually got the anemone to pull its foot up)
I kept them separate for over two hours...and the clowns did not go back in when released very close to the anemone. The male immediately went in, but only briefly.
It seems that the tank raised clowns do not like the flow in my tank, and this is the reason they hang in the corner.
I am more than willing to keep a running tally of fish lost using this method compared to those who have had no issues, but lets keep the others aside...or keep a separate tally showing that it is just as likely to eat your clownfish regardless of the situation.
Lets keep those separate.
I advertised this method with BTA. Honestly, I was more worried about the BTA than I ever was with the clowns.
Good to see that at least one person on this thread now has a legitimate claim to losing a clown with this method.
I would still stick with my statements that generally anemone's do not eat healthy fish.
Again, there are always exceptions and some anemones are more picivorous than others. The size of anemone and fish also play a role in this.
I realize that the anemone is the "host" the host "fish" would be the animal that is being hosted. I am also aware that the clownfish builds up a slime coat to protect itself from the anemone...healthy fish have healthy slime coats. Hence my healthy fish statement.
When I returned my anemone to the DT...I gave it some time to get settled so that hopefully the clowns wouldnt poke it around forever like they did when I first introduced the two. (The female clown actually got the anemone to pull its foot up)
I kept them separate for over two hours...and the clowns did not go back in when released very close to the anemone. The male immediately went in, but only briefly.
It seems that the tank raised clowns do not like the flow in my tank, and this is the reason they hang in the corner.
I am more than willing to keep a running tally of fish lost using this method compared to those who have had no issues, but lets keep the others aside...or keep a separate tally showing that it is just as likely to eat your clownfish regardless of the situation.
Genin
New member
I was really worried about this fish for about 24 hours. It hid in the rocks, breathing very heavy, color was pale, and looked to be on the verge of death. The next day, it did come out. Its color looked better, its breathing had improved, and it was shedding a layer of slime. I look at this like a snake bite. Some people survive. Some don't. It's never a good thing though.
fantastic that it came out of the situation alive.
1fishkeeper
Premium Member
I have to go with a -2 on this. Two different clowns and two different anemones. So its anemones 2 clowns 0.
davocean
Active member
The building of slime coat theory was accepted for a long time, but most recent theories(and I say theories because nothing has been totally proven on this, there seems to be no absolute) and depending on which author you side w/ there are mixed opinions, but the most common at this time is that clowns either discharge sting cells, or absorb sting cells.
This is why most think the clowns suck on tentacles, or groom and rub on tentacles.
This is also why we don't advise the forced close quarters trick, and you are by far not the first person to state or advise doing this.
Like I said before, if you want reality, hit the search button and seek it yourself, there have been a number of those posts, and then there are a number of people that just seem to disappear w/out owning up to the truth of what happened.
elegance coral
They call me EC
What do you mean by "discharge sting cells, or absorb sting cells"? Do you have a link or something that explains this?
Clowns can live within anemones because they don't get stung. Not because they are completely immune to the sting. Sorry. I'm just confused.
davocean
Active member
Sorry, don't have any links saved on this right now, my computer crashed a while back and I lost a lot of saved links.
I would think if it was just simply having a thicker slimecoat, then why wouldn't something like a mandarin also be impervious to stings?
One read did state this was why they suck on tentacles, but they did note there was no hard evidence.
I would think if it was just simply having a thicker slimecoat, then why wouldn't something like a mandarin also be impervious to stings?
One read did state this was why they suck on tentacles, but they did note there was no hard evidence.
elegance coral
They call me EC
There has always been a great deal of confusion about this. The theory isn't that a "thick' slime coat saves the clowns. It's the chemical composition of the slime coat that's important. If it was simply a thick slime coat, the anemone would constantly be discharging its nematocysts as the clown moved through its tentacles. This would be a huge waste of resources, as venom is very biologically expensive to produce. The anemone simply doesn't have the resources to do this. The clown is able to move through the tentacles without them sticking to it, because the nematocysts don't fire. Theoretically, the clown produces a slime coat that closely resembles that of the anemone. Different species of anemone produce different slime coats. This is why the relationship between anemone and clown is so species specific.
davocean
Active member
Interesting, and does seem to make sense, but pretty common to see mixed or unnatural hosts in captivity, so I wonder if sucking on tentacles helps to acquire that type of resistant slime coat?
I've read a number of theories and they all state it is just theory, so I haven't put a WHOLE lot into understanding it or clinging to one particular theory.
The last read did state this is a fairly new study in comparison to most land animals or animals more easily observed, and that it could take many many years of studying nems in their natural environment to truly determine what all happens in their gaining resistance to nems stings, so it is still relatively a grey area.
I've read a number of theories and they all state it is just theory, so I haven't put a WHOLE lot into understanding it or clinging to one particular theory.
The last read did state this is a fairly new study in comparison to most land animals or animals more easily observed, and that it could take many many years of studying nems in their natural environment to truly determine what all happens in their gaining resistance to nems stings, so it is still relatively a grey area.
ezhoops
New member
Really? ask all those people who have had perfectly healthy mandarin or scooter blennies that have been eaten by carpet anemones.
phender
Active member
I read somewhere that clowns have a sugar based slime coat and other fish produce a protein based slime coat. Seems like that would be easy to test, but since there doesn't seem to be a definitive answer, I am guessing that might not be correct.
IME, with clowns, it seems to be species specific. For example, I have never seen a clown from the clarki complex get stung by a new anemone. They just swim right in. On the other hand tomatoes and nigripes seem to swim around the edges and along the base of the anemone picking up anemone slime onto their bodies before diving in. Ocellaris and perculas dive right into certain anemones (S. gigantea and H. magnifica) but tend to hover around other types of anemones for quite sometime before choosing (or not choosing) to go in.
Maybe the reason researchers can't seem to come up with a generally accepted reason is that different species have different mechanisms. Remember, clowns aren't the only fish that are hosted my anemones. Damsels, some cardinal fish and some wrasses are also hosted my anemones at certain points in their lives. FWIW, I had a purple tang that lived in a too small tank with a too big anemone that could swim through the anemones tentacles without being stung. My guess is that over the course of time the tang picked up enough anemone slime in the water that the anemone's stinging cells no longer recognized the fish as prey.
IME, with clowns, it seems to be species specific. For example, I have never seen a clown from the clarki complex get stung by a new anemone. They just swim right in. On the other hand tomatoes and nigripes seem to swim around the edges and along the base of the anemone picking up anemone slime onto their bodies before diving in. Ocellaris and perculas dive right into certain anemones (S. gigantea and H. magnifica) but tend to hover around other types of anemones for quite sometime before choosing (or not choosing) to go in.
Maybe the reason researchers can't seem to come up with a generally accepted reason is that different species have different mechanisms. Remember, clowns aren't the only fish that are hosted my anemones. Damsels, some cardinal fish and some wrasses are also hosted my anemones at certain points in their lives. FWIW, I had a purple tang that lived in a too small tank with a too big anemone that could swim through the anemones tentacles without being stung. My guess is that over the course of time the tang picked up enough anemone slime in the water that the anemone's stinging cells no longer recognized the fish as prey.
kingfisherflesh
New member
A common forum misconception is that (More posts = More experience and knowledge.)
Im bowing out of this.
The method works.
ANY TIME a clown is in an anemone, it risks being eaten, whether in close quaters or not.
The strength and health of fish is directly correlated, and fish with strong slime coats are less likely to be victim to an anemone.
That being said, my clarkiis have driven off the ORA's and are now hosting that anemone.
Im bowing out of this.
The method works.
ANY TIME a clown is in an anemone, it risks being eaten, whether in close quaters or not.
The strength and health of fish is directly correlated, and fish with strong slime coats are less likely to be victim to an anemone.
That being said, my clarkiis have driven off the ORA's and are now hosting that anemone.
2Addicted
New member
I thought you said "Healthy fish dont get eaten by anemones". Why greatly increase the chance of a clownfish getting eaten by an anemone by putting them in close quarters?
So you keep two pairs of clowns in the same tank? BTW I have never heard of a clownfish hosting an anemone. Anemones do the hosting.
1fishkeeper
Premium Member
Dont worry in no time you will only have one pair of clowns in your tank.
phender
Active member
Its not like this is some new method that your brother/cousin/wholesaler invented. People have been trying it for at least 20 years.
Sometimes it works. Sometimes it doesn't. Sometimes the fish reject the anemone once put back into the tank. There isn't a great risk that a clown will get eaten by a BTA during this process, but there is with other anemones.
If you want a BTA to host your clowns and you have no patience, just don't get ocellaris or percula clowns.
FWIW, In my 30 years of clown/anemone keeping, I have never had a clown, once it was acclimated to an anemone, be eaten. I have had clowns die of disease and old age, but none of them have ever been eaten. They just fall out of the anemone. I'm not stating this as a fact. It is just my experience.
Maybe I missed something here. Why is it that someone would want to force a clown to host. I would think that the fish would be more content if allowed to make that choice for themselves.
I had ocellaris clowns that hosted in pulsing xenia. When I added a nem (rose BTA) to the tank, I had to herd the female close to it just so that she knew that it was in the tank. Once she saw it she dove right in and is happy to make it her home. She has since spawned twice. She never did that when the clowns were in the xenia.
I had ocellaris clowns that hosted in pulsing xenia. When I added a nem (rose BTA) to the tank, I had to herd the female close to it just so that she knew that it was in the tank. Once she saw it she dove right in and is happy to make it her home. She has since spawned twice. She never did that when the clowns were in the xenia.
ezhoops
New member
if you still doubt check out this link, not only do they eat fish...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1210425
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1210425
kingfisherflesh
New member
Im not, nor think I have ever disagreed with anything you have said here.
Im not pretending this is new or ground breaking. I wanted to share my experience with it, and show others that it could be done. I know (as I have stated many times before in this thread) that some anemones are more likely to eat clowns than others. As stated in the original post...BTA...you can do whatever you want...I just shared my experience because there is a group of people that seem to think that it cannot be done, and that a clownfish cant be eaten in DT for some reason.
I have had clowns host in almost every sort of LPS...frog spawn, elegance...toadstools, mushrooms of all kinds, xenia on the softie front. Im not telling you to do this, Im saying that it works, and is not a death warrant for the clowns.
Again, never at any point...have I denied that anemones eat clowns. Also as stated in my original post, BTA.
Anything that spends its time living in the mouth and tentacles of another animal runs the risk of being eaten the whole time it is in there. A weakened slime coat increases the chance that this will happen.
Maybe there should be another thread...dont put fish in with things you know will eat them?
