Allmost
New member
True ...
but you can not ignore facts.
what GAC does, is not my guess or your guess. its a fact. forget our hobby ... you think seachem and other gac makers have tricked every other industry using it for years ? lol come on ....
Activated Carbon Use and SPS?
- Thread starter ChadRaay86
- Start date
True ...
but you can not ignore facts.
what GAC does, is not my guess or your guess. its a fact. forget our hobby ... you think seachem and other gac makers have tricked every other industry using it for years ? lol come on ....
Allmost
New member
Allmost
New member
Please share your "science" and research, that makes your opinion more important than facts.
tinmanhouston
Member
I used to run I run GAC and GFO 24/7 in a BRS dual reactor with great result on my mixed reef with mostly sps. I had a major crash when i switch the BRS reactor to 2 NextReef reactors each running GAC and GFO separately. The result was much cleaner and clearer water and more light penetration which led to all my sps to stn. Now I run my system with a more efficient skimmer with weekly 10% water change without GAC and GFO and the tank looks just as good if not better than before. It is also nice not to spend money on the gfo and gac anymore.
Peter Eichler
New member
What SPS really don't like is driving nutrients too low, it doesn't matter if it's quickly or in the long run. I see negative effects if I run GAC 24/7 over long periods of time, but running it for a couple days every month or two keeps the water clearer and the corals exhibit no signs of stress or color loss.
Allmost
New member
I dont agree to first part. But its your experience and opinion and I respect that
second part. the articles above show what happens to TOCs when GAC is ran part time. I think SPS like stability than changes in TOC ...
but let me ask u. why run GAC once in a while anyways ? to help with yellowing and removal of toxins right ? what if you used the 1/3 of the amount instead and left it in for a month ? GAC has a saturation point
about loosing color, i have touched on that above as well, some are acid washed and alot more potent. so ... check boomers posts with this regards. I run REALLY low nutrients ... if I use ROX carbon, my corals will become WHITE within hours. some may even die. but I use less potent stuff at half dosage with no Issues. it actually improves the colors and PE. I use seachem matrix currently.
Peter Eichler
New member
I dont agree to first part. But its your experience and opinion and I respect that
second part. the articles above show what happens to TOCs when GAC is ran part time. I think SPS like stability than changes in TOC ...
but let me ask u. why run GAC once in a while anyways ? to help with yellowing and removal of toxins right ? what if you used the 1/3 of the amount instead and left it in for a month ? GAC has a saturation point
about loosing color, i have touched on that above as well, some are acid washed and alot more potent. so ... check boomers posts with this regards. I run REALLY low nutrients ... if I use ROX carbon, my corals will become WHITE within hours. some may even die. but I use less potent stuff at half dosage with no Issues. it actually improves the colors and PE. I use seachem matrix currently.
The removal of toxins portion of GAC is debatable. We don't really know what the GAC can and can't remove in our aquariums when it comes to "toxins". I run GAC to remove yellowing/gelbstoff from the water. There are too many factors with getting the amount of GAC just right in order to not cause potential stress and issues in a low nutrient system, so running it for just long enough to clear up the water a bit is what I feel is safest. To think that the fluctuation in nutrients that GAC might cause will stress out SPS is about as insane as the assertion that a temp swing of a degree or two will cause stress in SPS.
The problem with the last part isn't the effectiveness of the GAC, it's that you're driving your nutrients dangerously low in your tank to begin with.
Allmost
New member
wow Peter !
lets not continue this unfriendly debate ... if you see the need to call me insane then there is something missing in your life ... I hope your ref tank can help with that.
I am sure you speak coral and talk and ask your corals how they are feeling daily .... LOL
get help. and then when u are better, read the articles.
carbon use does not lower and lower tocs, it lowers it to a specific level if you took the time to read the articles, u wouldnt need to call me insane and wouldnt make yourself look bad.
ganjero
saiperchémibatteilcorazon
wow Peter !
lets not continue this unfriendly debate ... if you see the need to call me insane then there is something missing in your life ... I hope your ref tank can help with that.
I am sure you speak coral and talk and ask your corals how they are feeling daily .... LOL
get help. and then when u are better, read the articles.
I didn't see any unfriendly debate until some unnecessary lines in this post...
Don't you run a ULNS with Zeovit? That's probably why you don't agree with this "what SPS really don't like is driving nutrients too low, it doesn't matter if it's quickly or in the long run." Correct me if I'm wrong but in your approach, which is a acceptable, you are cycling "nutrients" by dosing them on daily bases and removing the excess right away.
IMO is hard to answer the original question with a yes or not, which is directly linking carbon use to RTN. That's where everything is pretty much anecdotal.
Last edited:
Allmost
New member
I do use Zeovit, and I like my nutrients on the low side. but thats not really how Zeovit works
we can disagree .. but it is not friendly, nor constructive to call other sides opinion insane
if we all agreed, this would be a book and not an open forum
Allmost
New member
lol exactly ... we think different, and use different methods ... none of which are "insane"
now from the articles and more ports I have read from the active chemists in this hobby, is that GAC like GFO or any other chemical filtration, has a saturation point, and also a different "rate of removal" lets call it.
that means carbon brand O can take up X amount of "color/ yellowing" at rate of Y mg / hour lets say .... when u think about it this way, then you can alter the brand [to find optimal Y] and fine tune the amount used [the X variable] to achieve the same effects as running it for 2 days a month only and making TOCs rise and lower on monthly basis
we all know that if you were to drop a big bag of GFO in an sps tank running with higher po4, you would see
"stress" on the corals, and most probably they will start loosing tissue from the base up. They were used to higher po4 and the rapid change ... now the above explains the same situation for a tank that has never had GAC running [so TOCS accumulated and corals got used to it] and then runs alot of GAC, lowering DOCs and also making water alot more clear, causing Stress and in some cases RTN/STN in corals. DOCs are actively used by corals, and many other organisms in our tanks ... and sudden removal will or drop of them, is IMHO the reason behind GAC related RTN or color loss. we can avoid this many different ways.
now from the articles and more ports I have read from the active chemists in this hobby, is that GAC like GFO or any other chemical filtration, has a saturation point, and also a different "rate of removal" lets call it.
that means carbon brand O can take up X amount of "color/ yellowing" at rate of Y mg / hour lets say .... when u think about it this way, then you can alter the brand [to find optimal Y] and fine tune the amount used [the X variable] to achieve the same effects as running it for 2 days a month only and making TOCs rise and lower on monthly basis
we all know that if you were to drop a big bag of GFO in an sps tank running with higher po4, you would see
"stress" on the corals, and most probably they will start loosing tissue from the base up. They were used to higher po4 and the rapid change ... now the above explains the same situation for a tank that has never had GAC running [so TOCS accumulated and corals got used to it] and then runs alot of GAC, lowering DOCs and also making water alot more clear, causing Stress and in some cases RTN/STN in corals. DOCs are actively used by corals, and many other organisms in our tanks ... and sudden removal will or drop of them, is IMHO the reason behind GAC related RTN or color loss. we can avoid this many different ways.
Last edited:
ganjero
saiperchémibatteilcorazon
I do use Zeovit, and I like my nutrients on the low side. but thats not really how Zeovit works
Maybe I need to read more but I thought with Zeovit you achieve an ULNS and then you dose other stuff to tweak colors...from their description "since you are basically starving your corals of excess nutrients you need to put something back in for your corals to feed on"...
Sorry for going off topic..Allmost do you have a thread where you discuss your system and the use of Zeovit, I would like to read more on your experience using it.
sahin
Ultimate Reefer
wow Peter !
lets not continue this unfriendly debate ... if you see the need to call me insane then there is something missing in your life ... I hope your ref tank can help with that.
I am sure you speak coral and talk and ask your corals how they are feeling daily .... LOL
get help. and then when u are better, read the articles.
Allmost, the way I read Peter's I dont see where Peter's post is unfriendly...furthermore, Peter didnt call you insane, thats not how I read Peters post.
As I said earlier in my thread, there are different ways to do things. That doesnt make any particular person correct. Please understand that I am not arguing with you. Both of us have been posting in the same threads over the years. It is OK to have a difference of opinion.
As to all of Peters comments I completely agree. If there was one person I'd be inclined to listen to regarding keeping SPS that would be Peter. I have learnt much from his posts over the years.
When GAC is used we can see its effect on our tank; yellowing reduces. However, we dont know much of what is actually removed.
At the end of the day, we are here to share our experiences and hopefully this in turn furthers the hobby.
Allmost
New member
so you havent checked the articles.
these images are from one of the articles, where they conducted tests, and came up with the 2 variables I posted about above.
so why not you and Peter read them first before "tryng" to bash my opinion and calling it insane.
you can choose if you want to use GAC or not, I dont care one bit. I dont sell Gac, I dont mine for GAC ... but dont diss the scientific evidence just to support your opinion on a fish forum ... you really think drugs, alcohol and so many other industries would have used GAC if they didnt do any research on it ?
Allmost
New member
Exactly, so name calling, and calling others opinion insane, is very counter productive.
if my observations are just anecdotal, then so is yours.
Allmost
New member
lol I get bashed over GAC which is well researched, and well documented ...
why on earth would I share more ?! specially about something like Zeovit that ppl just hate before trying ? lol
whats funny is every time I get engaged in discussions like this, I get alot of PMs from ppl who have been in this hobby for along time ... and have gave up with the online forums
jdamon
New member
here are some "science"
Feature Article: Total Organic Carbon (TOC) and the Reef Aquarium: an Initial Survey, Part II
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/9/aafeature2/
look for other parts as well.
Granular Activated Carbon in the Reef Aquarium
Granular activated carbon in the reef tank and its effectiveness in removing gelbstoff.
By Richard Harker
http://www.fishchannel.com/saltwate.../reef-aquarium-granular-activated-carbon.aspx
Granular Activated Carbon, Part 1: Modeling of Operational Parameters for Dissolved Organic Carbon Removal from Marine Aquaria
By Ken S. Feldman, Lauren F. Vernese, Karl T. Mueller, Kelly M. Maers
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2008/1/aafeature1/
Carbon, or GAC, is not only used in our hobby, its used in alot of different applications and the research on it is extensive actually.
my fav use is in making whiskey though
None of those articles are peer reviewed, nor are they double blind study design. They are review articles (the weakest form of scientific literature) that may quote a couple articles where somebody did a study about absorption properties of carbon. I don't believe anyone has written a real "scientific" study on what effect GAC has on a reef tank. Too many variables to be done easily. You would need two identical tanks with identical contents and run carbon in one and not the other, and see what happens. And in reality for the study to have any power, you would need many more than 1 tank in each group. Hence, all we have to go by is anecdotal. Try a little bit and see what happens
Allmost
New member
None of those articles are peer reviewed, nor are they double blind study design. They are review articles (the weakest form of scientific literature) that may quote a couple articles where somebody did a study about absorption properties of carbon. I don't believe anyone has written a real "scientific" study on what effect GAC has on a reef tank. Too many variables to be done easily. You would need two identical tanks with identical contents and run carbon in one and not the other, and see what happens. And in reality for the study to have any power, you would need many more than 1 tank in each group. Hence, all we have to go by is anecdotal. Try a little bit and see what happens
LOL Einstein himself could conduct experiments and some of u would even diss that to support your OWN OPINION lol
I think I do alot of experiments, more than any one that has posted on this thread, I have 7 tanks going at the moment
lastly, if you actually took the time to read the article, you will see what it is about ... it is NOT ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT JDAMON should use GAC or not. its about the rate at which GAC works at, and difference between the brands
see your mistake now ? its not about how it will work in your tank, it is not about the GAC's effect on corals, it is not about need to run GAC or not, it is about the GAC itself, what it is, what it does, how well it does it I take it that you are against GAC in SPS tanks ?
one of the most useless discussions I have had on this board so far.
Last edited:
ganjero
saiperchémibatteilcorazon
I didn't "bash" you, in fact I agree with your first post on this thread which makes sense....but after that you give everything some crazy spin (I'm not calling you crazy) making things personal and victimizing yourself.
I just asked if you have a thread sharing your experiences with zeovit...a simple no would have sufficed.
Last edited:
Allmost
New member
lol didnt say/mean u were the one doing the bashing
meant in general, should have specified. my bad.
Similar threads
