AEFW: In-Tank Whoopin
- Thread starter jda
- Start date
No eggs or worm since I posted this thread. That is about as zeroed in as I can get.
acesq
Premium Member
Here is another data point for the use of Levamilsole.
I have approx 400 total water volume in DT, sump, refugium and frag tank. 20 fish in the DT and 2 in the frag. I have a moderate infestation of AEFW. Lost a few frags but the larger colonies are holding their own.
Following the suggestions in the thread, but looking to dose on the higher end of the range according to Ormet's numbers. I mixed up 10.0g of powder in 1L RODI intending to dose at 2ml/gal with the following math:
400gal x 2 ml = 800ml = 8g levamisole
8gr in 1514L = 5.28mg/l
8gr in 400gal = 20mg/gal
Like Ormet, my scale does not measure in tenths of grams so I could have been heavy with the powder. After watching my fish react, I'm pretty sure I was!
On 10/2/14 @6:00 p.m. dosed 800ml of the solution. Turned off the carbon and gfo reactors and the skimmer.
Within 10 min many flatworms and copepods were floating in the water.
Snails dropped off the rock.
To my dismay, my pin tail fairy wrasse immediately showed signs of distress, hiding in a corner of the tank breathing heavily. The other fish were not happy.
At 6:15 p.m. I turned on the carbon reactor containing about 250g of carbon that had been in the reactor for almost a month. Ran about 20-30 gph through the reactor. The idea being to bring down the concentration of Levamisole slowly.
The following morning at 7:00 a.m. fish were still distressed, but less so. The two most impacted fish were the bodianus neopercularis and ventralis anthias, both went into hiding. The other fish were sluggish but breathing normally. No fish ate when I fed the tank.
At 7a.m. I loaded both reactors with 400g new carbon each and ran them at approx. 40 gph per. I then set the auto water change to change 25 gallons over the next 5 hours.
By 7p.m. - 24 hours after dosing -- all fish except bodianus and anthias swimming normally although appetite was still suppressed. The snails had righted themselves, but were not active.
Changed another 20 gal of water between 7pm and 11pm
By 7 am -36 hours after dosing- all fish except bodanius appear normal and are eating, bodianus still hiding under rock. Changed another 15 gal. of water.
By 6pm -- 48 hours later -- everything back to normal.
Corals have better color and PE.
I captured one large flatworm in the frag tank that was floating (I assume most had been trapped in the filter socks). It was not dead.
I basted the colonies and found no new flatworms.
Its too early to claim success. I suspect based on the single live flatworm I found is what I accomplished was to remove the flatworms from the colonies and into the water column where they were filtered out in the filter socks. I'm sure some survived in the sand bed or on the rock. I don't believe the treatment kills eggs and I'm certain I did not find and remove all of the eggs.
I plan on dosing again in a week, but at a lower dose -- it was scary watching my prized fish react so negatively!! I will reduce the potency to 8gm Levsamisole to 1L RODI and dose 800ml of the solution. That will take the dose down to 16 mg/gal or 4.23 mg/l. Hopefully I'll break the life cycle as jda appears to have done.
I have approx 400 total water volume in DT, sump, refugium and frag tank. 20 fish in the DT and 2 in the frag. I have a moderate infestation of AEFW. Lost a few frags but the larger colonies are holding their own.
Following the suggestions in the thread, but looking to dose on the higher end of the range according to Ormet's numbers. I mixed up 10.0g of powder in 1L RODI intending to dose at 2ml/gal with the following math:
400gal x 2 ml = 800ml = 8g levamisole
8gr in 1514L = 5.28mg/l
8gr in 400gal = 20mg/gal
Like Ormet, my scale does not measure in tenths of grams so I could have been heavy with the powder. After watching my fish react, I'm pretty sure I was!
On 10/2/14 @6:00 p.m. dosed 800ml of the solution. Turned off the carbon and gfo reactors and the skimmer.
Within 10 min many flatworms and copepods were floating in the water.
Snails dropped off the rock.
To my dismay, my pin tail fairy wrasse immediately showed signs of distress, hiding in a corner of the tank breathing heavily. The other fish were not happy.
At 6:15 p.m. I turned on the carbon reactor containing about 250g of carbon that had been in the reactor for almost a month. Ran about 20-30 gph through the reactor. The idea being to bring down the concentration of Levamisole slowly.
The following morning at 7:00 a.m. fish were still distressed, but less so. The two most impacted fish were the bodianus neopercularis and ventralis anthias, both went into hiding. The other fish were sluggish but breathing normally. No fish ate when I fed the tank.
At 7a.m. I loaded both reactors with 400g new carbon each and ran them at approx. 40 gph per. I then set the auto water change to change 25 gallons over the next 5 hours.
By 7p.m. - 24 hours after dosing -- all fish except bodianus and anthias swimming normally although appetite was still suppressed. The snails had righted themselves, but were not active.
Changed another 20 gal of water between 7pm and 11pm
By 7 am -36 hours after dosing- all fish except bodanius appear normal and are eating, bodianus still hiding under rock. Changed another 15 gal. of water.
By 6pm -- 48 hours later -- everything back to normal.
Corals have better color and PE.
I captured one large flatworm in the frag tank that was floating (I assume most had been trapped in the filter socks). It was not dead.
I basted the colonies and found no new flatworms.
Its too early to claim success. I suspect based on the single live flatworm I found is what I accomplished was to remove the flatworms from the colonies and into the water column where they were filtered out in the filter socks. I'm sure some survived in the sand bed or on the rock. I don't believe the treatment kills eggs and I'm certain I did not find and remove all of the eggs.
I plan on dosing again in a week, but at a lower dose -- it was scary watching my prized fish react so negatively!! I will reduce the potency to 8gm Levsamisole to 1L RODI and dose 800ml of the solution. That will take the dose down to 16 mg/gal or 4.23 mg/l. Hopefully I'll break the life cycle as jda appears to have done.
rovster
New member
Figured I'd report. This weekend did another dose (#3) and used 2.5mL/gal of the magic potion, which equated to around 60mL for my 30 gallon. No worms were observed during multiple basting attempts. Livestock was not affected one bit. Fish were active and corals were out with full polyp extension. I'm considering doing a fourth treatment next weekend, then a final Bayer dip before transfer. So far so good.
Overall tank is doing OK. Some corals look great. Some are improving, and some just look so-so. I think the worst part of all this is maintaining stability throughout the process. Maybe because its such a small tank. I do notice that after dosing the Alk consumption goes down, as if things shut down for a day or so. Then I have to spend a few days dialing it back in. I don't think things will really start to look great until I can go a good 4-6 weeks without messing with the tank. At least that is my thinking on it.
Overall tank is doing OK. Some corals look great. Some are improving, and some just look so-so. I think the worst part of all this is maintaining stability throughout the process. Maybe because its such a small tank. I do notice that after dosing the Alk consumption goes down, as if things shut down for a day or so. Then I have to spend a few days dialing it back in. I don't think things will really start to look great until I can go a good 4-6 weeks without messing with the tank. At least that is my thinking on it.
rovster
New member
Funny you mention that, I only observed my fish and corals acting a little funny on the first dose. Other doses they seemed fine. On my third dose, I nearly doubled the concentration and it was like nothing. I'm wondering if a lower dose is a good idea to start and to not shock the system. By the time you dose the second and third time, a lot of the worms and stuff you are going to kill and or remove has already been taken care of. Obviously its hard to say if the reaction of the fish and corals is related to the Levi directly or to the die off indirectly. I know some things release toxin as they die, so that initial wave will be highest on the first treatment. Anyway, food for thought.
FW and SW Fish Only systems have used Levamisole for flukes and worms for a long time with no ill effects on fish. One of my theories is that some organic from a dying organism is what stresses the fish, not the med it's self. This makes sense if the first dose killed some organic-releasing organism in higher quantity than subsequent doses when said organisms might be in lower numbers or non-existant.
Again, just anecdotal.
Again, just anecdotal.
acesq
Premium Member
Perhaps, but the distress was immediate. I'm quite sure that it was the levamisole or, maybe, but less likely, a release of toxins from red planaria or other organisms. I have a large volume of water and not very many red planaria. If it was a byproduct of some animal dying, I would have expected it to happen much more slowly.
Next time I'm going to reduce the dose by 20% and increase the dosage time to a full 24 hours.
Despite my fantasies that I killed them all, yesterday I found quite a few small and large AEFW on one of the original affected colonies that I am keeping in my frag tank for observation and dipping. I haven't been able to find any in the DT or any of the other frags in the frag tank, despite basting every other day, but if they are in the frag tank, there's a good chance they are in the DT as well. So the battle continues....
The good thing is that most of the corals in the DT are still looking much better than before I dosed.
acesq
Premium Member
Second dose:
dissolved 2 tsp (approx 7g) in 800 ml RO water
dosed 2ml/gal. = 17.5mg/gal levamisole
(first dose was approx 20mg/gal)
Much less distress exhibited by the fish. Snails dropped from rocks as before, brittle stars stunned. Much smaller amount of copepods and flatworm floating in water than after first dose.
I'll wait 24 hours then start up the carbon reactors.
dissolved 2 tsp (approx 7g) in 800 ml RO water
dosed 2ml/gal. = 17.5mg/gal levamisole
(first dose was approx 20mg/gal)
Much less distress exhibited by the fish. Snails dropped from rocks as before, brittle stars stunned. Much smaller amount of copepods and flatworm floating in water than after first dose.
I'll wait 24 hours then start up the carbon reactors.
ormet
Just one more frag
I like that we use mg/gal or mg/L now
Your 20mg/gal equates almost exactly to my 5.5mg/L that i found as my upper limit. That was when snails started to drop from the rocks.
acesq
Premium Member
I like that we use mg/gal or mg/L now
Your 20mg/gal equates almost exactly to my 5.5mg/L that i found as my upper limit. That was when snails started to drop from the rocks.
Yes, I wanted to dose at what you found to be the upper limit. But because the fish reacted so badly, for the second treatment I backed off to 17.5mg/gal and increased the reaction time to 24 hrs. Most of the fish have handled this lower dose better, although their appetite is still suppressed and they are not as active. My ventralis anthias is in hiding as he was after the first dose. I saw him swim right through the cloud of levamisole as I was dosing and he clearly did not like the taste.
If the fish continue to handle this dose the entire 24 hours I'll keep the next dose at 17.5mg/gal. as well.
JPMagyar
New member
I found the answer in the first post. Flatworm Exit has 10g of Levamisole per bottle. I realize it's more expensive than the powder, but a) it comes from a known supplier and b) it is already in liquid suspension so can be dosed directly with out dilution if one likes and c) I just happen to have some on hand so . . .
Doing some quick math here: (I know you guys already figured this out; I'm just thinking out loud here )
Salifert directions say 10g treats 300 gallons.
JDA's first dose was an estimated 3.8g x (200ml/500ml) = 1.5g for 100 gallons or 4.5g for 300 gallons.
That means JDA's dose was less than half the dose recommended by Salifert, but I thought folks tried Flatworm Exit on AEFW and found it to be ineffective? Is it the length of dosing that is making a difference?
I believe I have a very minor infestation with only 2 tiny frags affected at the moment so I will try to match JDA's dose with FWE and report my results. I have used FWE before for red flatworms with no adverse effects so I am somewhat comfortable in trying this. We'll see . . .
Doing some quick math here: (I know you guys already figured this out; I'm just thinking out loud here
)Salifert directions say 10g treats 300 gallons.
JDA's first dose was an estimated 3.8g x (200ml/500ml) = 1.5g for 100 gallons or 4.5g for 300 gallons.
That means JDA's dose was less than half the dose recommended by Salifert, but I thought folks tried Flatworm Exit on AEFW and found it to be ineffective? Is it the length of dosing that is making a difference?
I believe I have a very minor infestation with only 2 tiny frags affected at the moment so I will try to match JDA's dose with FWE and report my results. I have used FWE before for red flatworms with no adverse effects so I am somewhat comfortable in trying this. We'll see . . .
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JPMagyar
New member
So at 2:45 PM added 1 bottle plus 45 drops of a second bottle to 750 gallons of water, turned of the air to the skimmer but kept the circulation and removed my GAC and GFO. My plan is to do a 20% water change and put GAC and GFO online after 24 hours and then repeat this process in 7 days and 14 days.
How the strength of the 10g compare to the prohibit? Is this 10g of power, or 10g of dissolved solution? This is one of the places where the thread from a few years back started to get out of whack... math on different sources, concentrations and types of the stuff... from FWE, to pills to Prohibit. There was a few overdoses because of this.
Yes, my supposition is that time and removing the slime from them is what gets 'em. It seems that they might be able to hunker down, slime up and wait out a short dosage. I also recommended some awesome flow - I have a wavebox that does a REALLY good job of getting inbetween the coral branches in that back/forth washing motion.
You can easily add FWE at 2x concentration with no affect on the tank - this coming from my own experience with typical red planaria.
Yes, my supposition is that time and removing the slime from them is what gets 'em. It seems that they might be able to hunker down, slime up and wait out a short dosage. I also recommended some awesome flow - I have a wavebox that does a REALLY good job of getting inbetween the coral branches in that back/forth washing motion.
You can easily add FWE at 2x concentration with no affect on the tank - this coming from my own experience with typical red planaria.
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