AEFW: In-Tank Whoopin

[jda]

Excellent.

In my case, I found a few larger worms survive the first treatment as well. By treatment 3, I could not find any.

I am still AEFW free in that tank... which is good because I reconnected it to the whole system.

I assume that the coral is all not phased by the potion/dosage?

 

[trueblackpercula]

I did have a question that I didn't see but I may have missed it. Does it also kill the eggs?
Thanks and sorry if this was answered

 

[trueblackpercula]

Double post sorry

 

[jda]

I don't know that that we know. I did have some AEFW lay eggs in my experiment bowl and they never hatched... however, a pyrex bowl might not be the best place to incubate them.

I assumed that it would not, which is why I treated weekly for a while so that they could just hatch and die before they laid more.

 

[trueblackpercula]

Really thank you for everything sounds like you are finally getting to a cure for these little suckers.

 

[nanomarine]

Ida & ormet thanks for documenting this treatment.
I may have missed the 5th treatment from jda's log. What was the rationale to wait tor a whole month for this treatment?

 

[ormet]

I assume that the coral is all not phased by the potion/dosage?

Some corals look a little pale/bleached ... but they were not the best looking/healthiest pieces prior to the dosing either so there's no reason to believe the Lev affected them really.

I did have a question that I didn't see but I may have missed it. Does it also kill the eggs?
Thanks and sorry if this was answered

as jda says, we don't really know. Maybe. I was trying to monitor a clutch on a acro i had on the bottom but i could not take good enough macros of the clutch to make that experiment successful ... so i took a toothpick to the eggs instead.

I may have missed the 5th treatment from jda's log. What was the rationale to wait tor a whole month for this treatment?

Its just for my own piece of mind. 4 treatments should cover the worm/egg life cycle .. or maybe i should do a 5:th week treatment. The 1 month waiting period is to make sure theres no more worms. 1 month old worms are big and easy to see when you blow them of the acro's. But it might be better to just take my canaries out and dip to make sure.

 

[rovster]

This may be a stupid question, but why not run the skimmer without the cup to oxygenate the water. That or maybe just turn on the skimmer for an hour once or twice during the 24hr period with the cup off? Any thoughts or ideas on this? I'm getting ready to nuke my tank. I have one HOB filter, and I plan on adding another small one and just run it empty for oxygenation. I do have a ton of surface agitation as well. I also thought about running either an air stone or possibly even my skimmer part time with the cup off. Comments welcome!

 

[jda]

Try it and let us know how it goes. I don't think that anybody knows enough to know if it is a good or bad idea. If this med is like others, then the skimmer will still foam and could fill your sump with bubbles. If not, then it might work.

I don't know why you would need to oxygenate the water too terribly much more unless you are dosing organic carbon... which was in my first post as probably a bad idea.

 

[ormet]

I tried that. When i let the skimmer owerflow it creates salt spray everywhere. When i opened the skimmer fully to lower the water level it still built a foam head. I did not want the meds to get stuck in that.

So i just put an airstone in the sump.

 

[rovster]

I am organic carbon dosing, albeit a very small dose. Its about 5-10% of what a typical dose is. That said, over the past few weeks, I've been removing some fish from my display, so the "fuel" has been slowly declining. I want to remove a couple more fish before medicating, because I don't want to risk them in a crash. I also started to reduce my carbon dose a few days ago, because my corals are starting to pale a bit. Still have good polyp extension, and no dead areas or recession, just are starting to develop that "starved" look. I will try and run the skimmer maybe a few minutes a few times a day, to give a little O2 boost, but I think with the 2 HOBs and the crazy flow I have in my tank, I should be fine.

 

[acesq]

I was researching Levamisole Hydrochloride to see if there was any evidence that it kills worm eggs. I ran across this article which discusses its use as a fish de-wormer in freshwater tanks. Interesting.
http://www.loaches.com/disease-treatment/levamisole-hydrochloride-1

 

[ormet]

Thanks acesq, there was some interesting facts in there. LD-50 info and the fact that gac really does remove it was good to know.

I will up my dosage, found 2 aefw today when i dipped 2 "known offenders" in Fauna Marin Ultra Pest.

 

[rovster]

I'm actually going to take a modified route. I just started a whole tank treatment with PraziPro. I was discussing it with a local reefer, and I came to the conclusion that the PraziPro was safer, probably less effective, but may lessen the blow of the die off when it comes time for the real bomb, aka Prohibit. I'm hoping that the Prazi will eliminate a lot of the smaller stuff, then the Prohibit will finish the job. Any thoughts on this? I've talked to people that have used Prazi in an SPS reef with little to no issues.

 

[rovster]

Well I must say, this stuff works. I'm convinced if I don't crash my tank, this will rid these creatures. I dosed 39 mL of the magic potion in my 30 gallon. 2 hours ago. Fish seem fine, and I basted the corals and tons of these things came off. Usually when I bast I may get one or 2 to fly off. So cool. Wish me luck!

I'll keep this updated. My plan is to do a waterchange in 24hrs, and run both purigen and carbon to help with organics. Obviously I'll crank the skimmer up as well.

 

[rovster]

Figured I'd report. I did lose 1 frag to RTN overnight, but that frag has been questionable anyway. Otherwise, everything looks good. In fact, my water may actually be too clean. In preparation for dosing, over the last 2 weeks, I pulled a couple of fish, and decreased feeding. I was also a little more aggressive with waterchanges and removing detritus in anticipation for a huge die-off. Well, that's not what I observed. My nitrates and phosphates are lower than they were before treatment, and I actually started dosing some Pohls so that my SPS don't shock out. Fish seemed unaffected, and maybe they ate a little less during treatment, but maybe not. I was kind of looking for it, but nothing significant. Polyp extension is maybe a hair reduced.

I did stop my dosing of 2 part, because every time something happens to the tank (temp or alk spike) it seems the corals shut down for a few days, so I wanted to avoid an alk spike. I checked alk this morning and it was about the same as last night. I will check twice a day and ramp up the 2 part as I see fit.

One other think that I'll mention and was a STUPID move on my part, is since I had a tank day yesterday, I was looking for things to do. I cleaned the glass from my reflector which was way overdue. I'm thinking that may have been a reason for that frag to RTN because it was very high in the tank and it may have been light shock. Just to be safe, I decreased my lighting period by about an hour and will maintain this until I start to see improvement.

Another thing worth noting is that 2 weeks ago I dipped my bonsai because it was looking ragged. That's how I confirmed the worms. Yesterday the color was definitely coming back and that beautiful deep purple was coming through that pale brown ugliness it had.

Last thing I think is worth noting is that my system is barebottom and has very little worms and microfauna. I attribute that to the 2 previous rounds of Interceptor for redbugs (last one 6 months ago) and no sand bed. Maybe that's why I didn't see a big die off?

I will keep this updated as things progress.

 

[xtlosx]

Well, it appears that I have found one frag with AEFW bite marks, and a cluster of eggs in my system. The question becomes, I might be trying this at some point. I've already done an interceptor treatment in the past with success for killing red bugs..

What are the effects on invertebrates, do anyone know? Specifically I have a prized S. Gigantea that I've had for multiple years, and he went through the interceptor without even a hiccup.

 

[ormet]

Last thing I think is worth noting is that my system is barebottom and has very little worms and microfauna. I attribute that to the 2 previous rounds of Interceptor for redbugs (last one 6 months ago) and no sand bed. Maybe that's why I didn't see a big die off?

I will keep this updated as things progress.

I too run BB and even started to dose a tiny amount of organic carbon in the last weeks. No problems with oxygen depletion. I think its kinda safe to say that w/o massive bacteria carrying sand beds the risk of suffocating live stock is very small.

Well, it appears that I have found one frag with AEFW bite marks, and a cluster of eggs in my system. The question becomes, I might be trying this at some point. I've already done an interceptor treatment in the past with success for killing red bugs..

What are the effects on invertebrates, do anyone know? Specifically I have a prized S. Gigantea that I've had for multiple years, and he went through the interceptor without even a hiccup.

First let me just say that i would not do this treatment if i had an alternative. Dip the known offenders and hope for the best. This is a treatment for a tank with encrusted corals and worms that have really spread.

Secondly, depends on dose i would say. I have no anemones so i cant say for certain, but the dose i used last week was 3ml per Gallon. That dose did not affect my clams, fish, shrimp or corals at all. All snails stopped dead in their tracks tho and my small Collonista snails dropped from the stones to the bottom of the tank instantly. Everything bounced back after i ran skimmer and GAC for 24 hours.

 

[xtlosx]

I too run BB and even started to dose a tiny amount of organic carbon in the last weeks. No problems with oxygen depletion. I think its kinda safe to say that w/o massive bacteria carrying sand beds the risk of suffocating live stock is very small.


First let me just say that i would not do this treatment if i had an alternative. Dip the known offenders and hope for the best. This is a treatment for a tank with encrusted corals and worms that have really spread.

Secondly, depends on dose i would say. I have no anemones so i cant say for certain, but the dose i used last week was 3ml per Gallon. That dose did not affect my clams, fish, shrimp or corals at all. All snails stopped dead in their tracks tho and my small Collonista snails dropped from the stones to the bottom of the tank instantly. Everything bounced back after i ran skimmer and GAC for 24 hours.

Understood, and I would like to use this as a last resort as well, trust me. For the time being, any pieces I find that AEFW (if they aren't super rare and expensive) I just get rid of. I have a bunch of starter stuff mixed with more expensive nice pieces, so the ones I have acquired for nothing i have no problems throwing out. The LE stuff I will move to a frag tank that I have going online next month and dip, monitor, dip, and monitor some more.

 

[ormet]

Ok so here is a quick recap and some rambling after my five times dosing. 1 week between every dose. Roughly 24 hours exposure time.

Dose #1:
1,5ml/Gallon
Reaction from Acros and fish.
Brittle stars paralyzed (this happened every dose)
Lots of AEFW came lose after basting.
Everything back to normal after GAC & skimming. (This happened after every dose)

Dose #2
1,5ml/G
Fewer and bigger AEFW came lose after basting.
No reaction from fish.

Dose #3
2,4ml/G, stronger dose.
No AEFW came lose after basting.

Dose #4
3,4ml/G
Snails stop dead in their tracks, small Collonista snails litter the bottom of the tank.
This feels like the highest i would like to go for intank treatment.
I pull two known offenders and dip in FM Ultra Pest. AEFW fall off. One huge, one small.
Nothing comes off from basting.

Dose #5
2,2ml/G
Nothing comes off from basting

My conclusions:
Lev kills AEFW in strong enough solution or long enough exposure.
Lev intank treatment coupled with basting and a filter sock to collect AEFW in is effective in keeping the population to a minimum.
Lev intank treatment is not bomb proof or the solution to all our AEFW problems.
Lev intank treatment up to 3,4ml/G of jda's standard solution is safe for Acropora, clams, fish and invertebrates for up to 24 hours.
AEFW die after 6 hours in 3x strength.
AEFW die after 15 minutes in 10x strength, which is only 28mg/L compared to Omaha zoo that use it as a dip for one hour in 40mg/L strength.

Next experiment if AEFW make an appearance again:
Pull all Acro, remove base/exposed skeleton, add into QT and treat intank with 40mg/L for one hour. Keep Acro in QT while removing all rock work and replacing it with new. Tank is up for re-scape anyway. Dip in FM Ultra pest before entering tank. Pray to Thor & Odin.