AEFW: In-Tank Whoopin

[SPotter]

I would strongly reconsider prohibit. I've talked to several people that used it and everyone said that the stress it caused on their systems and live stock was significant. Not one of them said they would recommend or use the treatment again.

 

[mc-cro]

That was my initial reaction as well... until I started researching and not just taking anecdotal evidence surrounding the Levamisole HCL. Although, I am still very nervous about it.

As I understand it, Levamisole HCL has been used to treat fish parasite infestations for years. The medication itself does not effect fish. However, based on the bacterial filtration of the tank, and the amount of worms, bristle starts, pods, parasites etc. in the tank, the die off, resulting toxins, and ammonia build up cause problems.

 

[dg3147]

I would strongly reconsider prohibit. I've talked to several people that used it and everyone said that the stress it caused on their systems and live stock was significant. Not one of them said they would recommend or use the treatment again.

I second this. Crashed my system and never actually killed the AEFW.

 

[mc-cro]

Can you tell me more about it?

how bad was your AEFW problem?
what type of filtration methods are you using? vodka dosing, bio pellets, refugium, deep sand bed?
what was your dosage, how much-how long- how often?

 

[dg3147]

Can you tell me more about it?

how bad was your AEFW problem?
what type of filtration methods are you using? vodka dosing, bio pellets, refugium, deep sand bed?
what was your dosage, how much-how long- how often?

Take a look at my home page link bellow, it's a bit of an exhaustive story but I documented it all. The treatment definitely did not work for me and destroyed my system.

 

[mc-cro]

interesting. I have a couple question if you dont mind.

were you still dosing vodka when you started dosing the prohibit?

I see you also had a sand bed, and a refugium. did you test for nitrates or ammonia after several doses when you started seeing the RTN?

500mL per dose in a 220g system seems very high, but you observed that it still didnt kill all the adult AEFW.

 

[dg3147]

interesting. I have a couple question if you dont mind.

were you still dosing vodka when you started dosing the prohibit?

I see you also had a sand bed, and a refugium. did you test for nitrates or ammonia after several doses when you started seeing the RTN?

500mL per dose in a 220g system seems very high, but you observed that it still didnt kill all the adult AEFW.

Exactly. So, if my very high doses never killed them, in my system as least, it does not work. I think it did stun them, just never killed them. My sand bed is pretty shallow--plus remember live rock contains a lot of living stuff for die off too.

No4 and Nh4 never tested; though, the die off did not seem consistent with those issues --though, who knows. I think i stopped vodka, though do no recall.

 

[rog2961]

Why not superglue? I've used to save corals that I thought would for sure die. They can't cause damage if their frozen in glue!

 

[mc-cro]

I have super glued the batches of eggs I can get too, but there are dozens more that can see down deep in the colonies that I cant get to.

I turkey baste the colonies a couple times a day, and I havent seen any adults in a few days, but I know they are still the. I see there evidence trail

I may take a few sacrificial corals and see if I can find the lethal dose

 

[RobTheReefer]

...I will start dosing the medication when it arrives. I am thinking once a week dosages, for 6-8 weeks.

Are you still dosing weekly?

 

[mc-cro]

I did my first dose last saturday, Dec 19th. 330ml/g for a 220g system.

I saw several worms coming off, lots blew off with a power head, and I also observed many mucas blobs, that I am fairly certain were flatworms that were dissolving. ( it looked just like some FW that I experimented with in a container that basically dissolved after about 12hrs)

an observation; I siphoned about 50% of my shallow sand bed when I did a 25% water change the next day, after a few hours the removed sand smelled like rotten death. I normally siphon my shallow sand bed about every 6 months or so, and know what is a normal smell, even when left in a container submerged overnight before dumping outside. And this smelled bad. The skimmate also smelled very putrid for the next couple of days, like how when you know something has died in your tank just by the smell of the skimmate bad. I wonder if all that death in the sand bed and rocks contributes to the tanks crashing in other threads. If you have a DSB, or refugium, there is no way you could remove all the dead organics.


Unfortunately, 7 days after dosing, I noticed more egg clutches, and a quite a few large worms, and several smaller ones.

yesterday, Dec 26th, I dosed again (exactly 7 days). Last night about 8hrs into the treatment, I found a couple large flatworms on colonies with a flashlight. I had to hit them several times with a turkey baster to knock them off, and they were still alive.

Losing hope...these little bas turds are slowly killing my SPS forest

 

[sahin]

I did my first dose last saturday, Dec 19th. 330ml/g for a 220g system.

I saw several worms coming off, lots blew off with a power head, and I also observed many mucas blobs, that I am fairly certain were flatworms that were dissolving. ( it looked just like some FW that I experimented with in a container that basically dissolved after about 12hrs)

an observation; I siphoned about 50% of my shallow sand bed when I did a 25% water change the next day, after a few hours the removed sand smelled like rotten death. I normally siphon my shallow sand bed about every 6 months or so, and know what is a normal smell, even when left in a container submerged overnight before dumping outside. And this smelled bad. The skimmate also smelled very putrid for the next couple of days, like how when you know something has died in your tank just by the smell of the skimmate bad. I wonder if all that death in the sand bed and rocks contributes to the tanks crashing in other threads. If you have a DSB, or refugium, there is no way you could remove all the dead organics.


Unfortunately, 7 days after dosing, I noticed more egg clutches, and a quite a few large worms, and several smaller ones.

yesterday, Dec 26th, I dosed again (exactly 7 days). Last night about 8hrs into the treatment, I found a couple large flatworms on colonies with a flashlight. I had to hit them several times with a turkey baster to knock them off, and they were still alive.

Losing hope...these little bas turds are slowly killing my SPS forest

I went through 3 battles with AEFW in the past 10 years;
1st time I didnt really know them too well and most of my acros died
2nd time I knew the signs etc, but lost my corals in QT.
3rd time was just over a 14 months ago I think.

I managed to keep every single acro alive; colonies, frags, "deepwater"/smooth skinned acros etc.

I have done extensive reading on the subject...currently, NOTHING works as an in tank treatment. I've followed various in tank treatments on this forum and others; results were all similar in the end; way more damage done to the system.

The ONLY thing that works is the good old dipping and QT. Once you get at all the eggs it just takes 2-3 weeks to break the life cycle and really kill most of the AEFW. On 4+ weeks you should have gotten rid of all the AEFW's if your inspection/egg kill/dipping was sufficient.

I dipped every 4-5 days to begin with and then dipped about once I week. I went an extra bit longer on the dipping and ended up with a 3 month process. But in doing so I have saved my 4 now years old colonies like Red Planet, Blue tort, Pink Millepora etc.

It will be hard work to start with, but once you get a routine going and start seeing results/acros recovering; its not all too bad. I needed about 4 hours each time dipping my frags and colonies, inspecting etc.

If you havent done so, have a read of this thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2263491

I followed a very similar procedure and it helped me save my acros. Good luck.

 

[mc-cro]

unfortunately, I there is no way I can remove the acro's from my tank. I have well over 100 colonies fully encrusted on the rocks, no way to remove them without tearing down the whole tank. And If I did get the colonies out, there is no way to re attach them and then take them back out a week later to dip again

I have always had a very strict QT and dipping procedure for all corals that go into the tank, thats another reason I am so bummed. Everything goes through a 3-5 week QT with weekly or bi weekly dipping in Bayer, and anything else I findn appropriate at the time. yet somehow, AEFW's slipped in somewhere.

 

[RobTheReefer]

unfortunately, I there is no way I can remove the acro's from my tank. I have well over 100 colonies fully encrusted on the rocks, no way to remove them without tearing down the whole tank. And If I did get the colonies out, there is no way to re attach them and then take them back out a week later to dip again

I have always had a very strict QT and dipping procedure for all corals that go into the tank, thats another reason I am so bummed. Everything goes through a 3-5 week QT with weekly or bi weekly dipping in Bayer, and anything else I findn appropriate at the time. yet somehow, AEFW's slipped in somewhere.

That sucks. I like a challenge but a hobby should be enjoyable above all. If I get aefw I'll just not have acros. No way I'd go through all of that torture when it could just slip through again.

I'm starting to rethink my acro dominated tank. I'm going to have lots of other sps along with zoas and lps. That way if my frag collecting obsession catches up to me, I'll at least have everything but acros.

 

[Montireef]

Try a couple of synchiropus picturatus, they cleaned a whole 125 gal tank with +50 acros for me. It has been several months since that day and I haven't seen any flatworm again. My colonies are small and encrusted with all branches accessible. They still swim around the acros perusing and searching.

 

[SPotter]

My successful battle with aefw

My successful battle with aefw

I want to share my experience and results with everyone....So about 6 months ago I was informed by someone that had bought a frag from me that I had AEFW. Given the size of my tank and number of sps I have, pulling everything for dips was not a possibility. I added several wrasses that allegedly eat worms....little to no impact. I started pulling the pieces from my display that I could and transferred them to my frag tank for weekly dipping along with all of my frags. Over the next few weeks everything in the frag tank improved but I was still struggling with the display and was gradually losing more and more sps. After doing a lot of reading I decided to add 10 Blue Sapphire Damsels and started treating with Zeovit Flatworm Stop.

Within minutes of adding the Damsels they were pulling worms off of my acros and eating them. I was able to witness this several times with the first few days they were in the tank.

I know the FWS has had many mixed reviews but I still decided to give it a try especially since it was on sale. I began dosing at twice the suggested amount for the first 7 days and then after that I cut it back to the suggested amount. I continued to baste the sps every other day and with each basting less and less worms were found. After two weeks of introducing the damsels and starting the dosing of FWS....no worms or new bite marks were found. Here is the interesting part....I decided to do an experiment with the FWS and a few of the AEFW I siphoned out after basting. I put three worms in a 100ml container of tank water and then added 1ml of FWS. Over the next 30 mins they gradually shriveled up and died. I know there was some controversy over the initial claims made by Zeovit about this product which caused them to change the verbiage that they used in the product description.

Its now been 6 weeks since introduction of the damsels and when I started dosing FWS. Its been 4 weeks since I have last seen any signs of pests in my tank and I have recently cut the suggested dosage of FWS in half. All of my surviving sps have healed and begun to grow again.

 

[mc-cro]

intersting, thanks for the feedback. I have also been dosing the Zeovit Flatworm stop, actually doubled the dosage for the first week also. I have been dosing it almost a month, unfotunately, I am not seeing much improvement. I just took a turkey baster to the corals, and still found a bunch of large worms.

here in a bit, I will see if I can replicate your flat worm stop results with direct exposure.

Where did you come across the idea for the damsels? I am also wondering about commensial crabs?

 

[SPotter]

intersting, thanks for the feedback. I have also been dosing the Zeovit Flatworm stop, actually doubled the dosage for the first week also. I have been dosing it almost a month, unfotunately, I am not seeing much improvement. I just took a turkey baster to the corals, and still found a bunch of large worms.

here in a bit, I will see if I can replicate your flat worm stop results with direct exposure.

Where did you come across the idea for the damsels? I am also wondering about commensial crabs?

I did a google search on them and found several threads where people have used them with success. I have them in my display and in my frag tank now with no issues. they are extremely peaceful and don't bother anyone or each other.

 

[mc-cro]

Try a couple of synchiropus picturatus, they cleaned a whole 125 gal tank with +50 acros for me. It has been several months since that day and I haven't seen any flatworm again. My colonies are small and encrusted with all branches accessible. They still swim around the acros perusing and searching.

thanks for sharing your experience.

I do have a mandarin, although it is a Synchiropus splendidus. and He does not appear intersted in them at all. Are you sure they picked Acro eating flat worms, and not just red planeria flat worms.

 

[mc-cro]

I did a google search on them and found several threads where people have used them with success. I have them in my display and in my frag tank now with no issues. they are extremely peaceful and don't bother anyone or each other.

yeah, I just found a couple threads on them. seems odd, I have been researching for weeks, and never came across it. but now, i see several stories.

unfortunately, my preferred fish vendor, Live aquaria is out of stock