Algae Scrubber Advanced

[wayne44]

it grows its not thick growth dont have any pics but it is green algae i've had this aquarium up for about 12 years I guess and i've never had a problem with algae as bad as it has been here lately hopefully it will soon pass just hope I dont lose my corals in the process

 

[el aguila]

Well I finally got some Hong Kong drivers that work. I have been running a couple of weeks 100 1W LEDs on one side and 50 on the other side of a heat sink that measures 13 1/2" x 11 1/2". I have only cleaned the screen once since installation (ready to clean again today) and the 100 LED side had a nice thick layer of dark algae with the 50 LED side hardly having any.

I'm going to take the 50 side and increase the number by 50 - 75 as soon as I can find time which is in short supply this weekend.


2 fixtures before mounting

50 fired up

100 fired up

installed in scubber - I probably need to do something with the color of the picture because you just see white rather than red when looking into the scubber.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

best DIY LED array I've seen so far

 

[JohnnyB in SD]

Well I finally got some Hong Kong drivers that work. I have been running a couple of weeks 100 1W LEDs on one side and 50 on the other side of a heat sink that measures 13 1/2" x 11 1/2". I have only cleaned the screen once since installation (ready to clean again today) and the 100 LED side had a nice thick layer of dark algae with the 50 LED side hardly having any.

I have been thinking of going this route of 1w LEDs at about 1 per sq in, as opposed to 3watters spread out and distanced from the screen.
It'd be real nice if you could post a pic of your screen when you go to clean it?

 

[salty joe]

Nice work el aguila. How far from the screen (not the enclosure) are the LEDs?

 

[one clownfish]

I have an IC 660, (8) t5 water proof end caps and (4) 36" reflectors that I was going to sell but I think I'm going to give the ATS a shot. I have big problem with Phosphates, my tank is a stocked 220 FOWLR but I would like to keep some SPS in the near future.
My questions are:

1) Is surface area the only difference between a vertical scrubber and angular scrubber? I'm limited with space going up but I can rework the sump to give me an area of 32" x 18" on an angle, or

2) I can go with a double sidded 12" x 24" vertical scrubber. Same surface area, less bulbs no reflectors?

3) How many bulbs should I go with and how far from the scrubber should they be?

4) Do the T5 bulbs need to be replaced every 3 months like the cfls?

Thanks in advance,
Andy

 

[el aguila]

Thanks for the kind words everyone. The heat sinks are 1 3/4" from the screen at the closest setting that I can put them on my build. I do not know if pictures are really going to mean anything until I get the other side up and running (this weekend). It will probably be a couple of weeks before any pictures.

 

[jacob.morgan78]

This is a great thread!! IF you want information on LEDs! j/k... it's still a good thread but I would be interested in other information mentioned in the original post.

* How can we be scientific about ATS and provide empirical data to draw the correct conclusions?
* For what kind of tanks can an ATS be beneficial or dangerous?
* Light sources - can LED be more than experimental for ATS?
* Skimmers in cooperation with scrubbers - Advantages and disadvantages.
* Scrubbers and carbon dosing - Competition or cooperation?
* Approaches to achieve 3D-scrubbing in both open and closed designs
* Ozone and UV combined with an ATS - good or bad?
* Effects on livestock - Good and bad
* Long term usage of an ATS and how to collect data about it?
* How to avoid crashes - what are the safeguards?

​

This is just a few that I would love to see more information on.

ALSO, would it be okay to put the harvest from an ATS into my compost bin for my garden? Kinda random but curious about this.

Thanks!

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

* How can we be scientific about ATS and provide empirical data to draw the correct conclusions?

Test water before and after. Religiously document conditions prior to installing scrubber, including filtration methods, keep maintenance logs, take many pictures, monitor feeding, etc. Not many people do this. Usually they just test right before and then after.

* For what kind of tanks can an ATS be beneficial or dangerous?

Beneficial for all tanks, not dangerous really in any way I can think of, just not ideal for FW planted tanks - you need to find a balance point so that the scrubber doesn't out compete the plants. It has been done, but not by many

* Light sources - can LED be more than experimental for ATS?

LED is not really what I consider experimental anymore. It grows pretty much nothing but green hair under almost any condition from what I have seen, and it by far and above the best method. 660nm Red and 455nm Blue in a 6:1 ratio is currently what is suggested. Some use warm or neutral white, but I am of the opinion that 660/455 is all you need.

* Skimmers in cooperation with scrubbers - Advantages and disadvantages.

They don't do the same thing, so you can use them together. Most report lighter or less production of skimmate in conjuntion with a scrubber

* Scrubbers and carbon dosing - Competition or cooperation?

Carbon dosing is on the opposite spectrum from algae scrubbers. It will generally compete with the scrubber. This applies to any kind of carbon dosing - biopellets, vodka, vinegar, etc. Again, you can find a balance point, and some have done so.

* Approaches to achieve 3D-scrubbing in both open and closed designs

3D is generally only accomplished with a closed box design, however wrapping the entire screen in Saran Wrap will aid a open scrubber in attaining more 3D-like growth (and you can also move the lights closer without burning algae, some have reported)

* Ozone and UV combined with an ATS - good or bad?

No competition AFAIK on UV. Not sure on Ozone but I don't think it can hurt.

* Effects on livestock - Good and bad

some have reported specific corals not responding well, for me that is frogspawn and branching hammers. However this may be because my screen is oversized and not growing green algae well (rebuilding it so that it's sized for feeding, not tank volume)

* Long term usage of an ATS and how to collect data about it?

See the response to the first question

* How to avoid crashes - what are the safeguards?

Algae scrubbers don't cause tank crashes. You may find one or two people saying they did but then when you poke and prod them for answers, you either don't get any or find out something else that points to a larger problem. It has been widely theorized (though to my knowledge not proven) that buildup of heavy metals is the main culprit in tank crashes (long term), and algae does absorb heavy metals, however how much and how fast and how efficient algae is at keeping heavy metals at a reduced level over the long term has not been evaluated to my knowledge. This is mainly because there's no money in algae - no profit or advantage in testing many of these things. It will just take someone with curiosity and a lab and lots of disposable cash to go down this road I think.

ALSO, would it be okay to put the harvest from an ATS into my compost bin for my garden? Kinda random but curious about this.

Yes. You probably want to rinse out the saltwater first, but maybe not.

Thanks!

You're welcome!

 

[jacob.morgan78]

WOW! What a response... you rock!

We are all lucky to have such devoted people in this hobby!!

I really only was interested in the questions highlighted in red but appreciate all the other responses as well!

I like to run a filter sock to keep detritus from settling in my sump and to keep bubbles and hence salt creep down. Would this hurt anything other than keeping pods from circulating efficiently?

Is it okay to keep GFO and/or Carbon online or should I gradually take it off?

Thanks again!

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

Yes, filter socks will also trap waste particles, some argue this is bad actually. I read an article recently that said that even detritus should be recirculated back into the tank as it is metabolized by microbes and eventually broken down. I don't blown detritus off rocks or anything, and sump is high enough flow that it doesn't collect and I have no problems.

GFO will knock P down and limit it so that N will not get absorbed. Algae absorbs N and P at the Redfield Ratio, which is the same ratio as N and P naturally exist in food/life. Limit either and the other won't get reduced. For example the tank I run the scrubber on has N=0.00 almost always, and P is never below 0.05, because the LR and probably the sandbed to some extent denitrifies enough to limit N. So running a little GFO as just enough flow to reduce that extra out won't hurt, and you can probably just run it once a week for a few hours.

Carbon is just preference I guess. Use a high-quality carbon and rinse it well, standard fare for carbon. Use it if you want, I don't.

 

[jacob.morgan78]

nevermind

 

[emerald crab]

I use skimmer, biopellets, vodka and algae scrubber and I love the combination. I can really feed everybody in my tank and keep good water quality. It took me longer to get the scrubber working properly, but I was expecting that.

 

[srusso]

I use skimmer, biopellets, vodka and algae scrubber and I love the combination. I can really feed everybody in my tank and keep good water quality. It took me longer to get the scrubber working properly, but I was expecting that.

Algae consumes N's & P's which isn't exported by any other process in most aquariums other then doing a water change. Because of this most aquariums have a slow build up of the two until a WC is needed. Having an algae scrubber means your tank is actively consuming any N's and P's they become available, no build up, no issues with feeding more. This will lead to lower life forms getting more food, more breeding, stronger diversity.

So yes, you can generally feed more liberally...

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

The bio pellets and vodka both carbon dosing forms which directly compete with the scrubber, just so you know. Generally, if you do heavy carbon dosing, your scrubber will generally have less productive growth and be less effective. Basically you're stealing the nutrients away from it, so it will be limited and will act like it's oversized (assuming you sized it for feeding to start with) and will tend to grow more of the yellow-caramel colored gooey algae, which blocks light to the lower layers causing the roots to die. You can run both schemes, but you will need to find a balance.

 

[emerald crab]

The bio pellets and vodka both carbon dosing forms which directly compete with the scrubber, just so you know. Generally, if you do heavy carbon dosing, your scrubber will generally have less productive growth and be less effective. Basically you're stealing the nutrients away from it, so it will be limited and will act like it's oversized (assuming you sized it for feeding to start with) and will tend to grow more of the yellow-caramel colored gooey algae, which blocks light to the lower layers causing the roots to die. You can run both schemes, but you will need to find a balance.

I know and it did take much longer to get a nice crop of algae. I also had to play with vodka dosing (cut 2/3) and adding some chelated iron helped a lot.
I don't have any blue in my scrubber, all I use is 660 nm, but I'm happy with the results.

 

[BluScrnOdeth]

Ok, so i logged onto the official algae scrubber site to see this "new" scrubber idea. again, i mentioned that idea before and was told it cant be done because the light needed to grow the algae is reduced too much, i never persued testing this idea because of that which sounded like a logical reason and assumed that someone else attempted it and failed. I guess i should have tested it a year or so ago and we could have been that much further ahead by now...... glad to know that it works though.

 

[Floyd R Turbo]

BSOD, when did you mention that? I don't recall it but it's all a jumble at this point...Was it in this thread or the other one?

 

[Jstdv8]

Good thread, lots of great info here.
I've been running my scrubber for 2 years now.
Great results, easy to use. I won't run a tank without one.
I used to have a skimmer and GHA , Nitrates, phos up the wazoo, built the scrubber let it grow in and took the skimmer out and sold it.
No GHA, no phos, good PH. I couldn't be happier.
I'm going to have to go back and read up on the LED thing because when i built mine there was no good LED for growing the green algae on the screens.

 

[srusso]

Good thread, lots of great info here.
I've been running my scrubber for 2 years now.
Great results, easy to use. I won't run a tank without one.
I used to have a skimmer and GHA , Nitrates, phos up the wazoo, built the scrubber let it grow in and took the skimmer out and sold it.
No GHA, no phos, good PH. I couldn't be happier.
I'm going to have to go back and read up on the LED thing because when i built mine there was no good LED for growing the green algae on the screens.

LEDs are the way to go now. ~660nm and a little ~450nm. I am about to make the switch myself.