Algae Scrubber Advanced
- Thread starter maglofster
- Start date
crn005
New member
For the scrubbers where you're building a compartment, or isolated chamber out of acrylic, are you guys using standard plexi-glass from Home Depot for the clear sections or are you using a sturdier acrylic? I plan on making a unit similar to Floyd's that uses the t5s but with LEDs and it will be hanging on the lip of the sump.
JohnnyB in SD
New member
I get my acrylic from the scrape bin at local plastics supplier for $2/pound. I use 1/4" thick minimum for water containment applications. Sometimes they don't have exactly what you're looking for so you could just order it, but I never have.
Not sure how well that HD stuff glues, I think it's intended for windows.
Alaska and Korea, you guys may not have too many options.
Not sure how well that HD stuff glues, I think it's intended for windows.
Alaska and Korea, you guys may not have too many options.
JohnnyB in SD
New member
Cutting board material is typically food grade HDPE. Sounds like it would be good, but I believe that in reality it does not glue at all. Plastic guy should be able to steer you towards what you need, maybe even alert you when scraps become available.
crazzyreefer
New member
I read through most if not all of the thread (s) but I didn't find the information needed, sorry if I missed it. What I was looking for, I know someone looked at lighting with a par meter, but My question is what if any difference is it when the light is behind a filter, ie,,, (glass or plastic splash guard), I know it blocks out some UV spectrum, but isn't that the light you want for the growth? so having a shield changes the spectrum doses it not? And limits growth.
I have used ATS for years, early 80's and I had no problems, of course there has been refinements, and I'm building another one, and will be using either Pilkington Activ™ or PPG Sun Clean, for the splash screen, with an auto screen/mesh cleaner . Was there a problem with too much water flow? I will be pumping about 16-20 gal a minute about 1000 gph over a 20" screen with. From a high pressurized water pump over the screens, was there a point where the flow stopped the growth? you are requiring max 700 gal for 20" screen
Tank is 1000 gal cube 800-1000 lbs live rock, bare bottom, (2) 400w DE 20k lights (I think or they are 16k)
Skimmer is custom self cleaning wet neck 12" Diameter x 336" Height (28') Compressor air driven, Auto cleans once a week.
The ATS will be auto cleaning once a week, and will be fed water that exits directly from the skimmer and the chiller. The ATS will be housed on top of a 40 gal dump tank , It dumps every 1.3-1.5 min 30 gal of clean water (hopefully with pods)
Reason for ATS= Pods and lower Phosphate while increasing PH, The skimmer is 87% efficient and is used for removal of all organics and metals. I know the ATF will be in competition with the skimmer, but it will still produce some algae, just not a lot. Will adjust the self cleaning cycle to coincide with the algae build up. Budget = Wife's tank no budget needed
I have used ATS for years, early 80's and I had no problems, of course there has been refinements, and I'm building another one, and will be using either Pilkington Activ™ or PPG Sun Clean, for the splash screen, with an auto screen/mesh cleaner . Was there a problem with too much water flow? I will be pumping about 16-20 gal a minute about 1000 gph over a 20" screen with. From a high pressurized water pump over the screens, was there a point where the flow stopped the growth? you are requiring max 700 gal for 20" screen
Tank is 1000 gal cube 800-1000 lbs live rock, bare bottom, (2) 400w DE 20k lights (I think or they are 16k)
Skimmer is custom self cleaning wet neck 12" Diameter x 336" Height (28') Compressor air driven, Auto cleans once a week.
The ATS will be auto cleaning once a week, and will be fed water that exits directly from the skimmer and the chiller. The ATS will be housed on top of a 40 gal dump tank , It dumps every 1.3-1.5 min 30 gal of clean water (hopefully with pods)
Reason for ATS= Pods and lower Phosphate while increasing PH, The skimmer is 87% efficient and is used for removal of all organics and metals. I know the ATF will be in competition with the skimmer, but it will still produce some algae, just not a lot. Will adjust the self cleaning cycle to coincide with the algae build up. Budget = Wife's tank no budget needed
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Crazy_Beaver
New member
It might well filter out some UV, not sure on that, but if we have bright enough light, then some of the UV will get through.....
I think you need a wider slot for the greater flow rate. Just experiment to get even flow.
I thought algae grew better and quicker with warmer water, so by feeding the ATS from the chiller, you might stunt growth. BUT, I'm not 100% sure on that. I've put my heater in the first section of the sump, where the scrubber is based.
crazzyreefer
New member
Sorry I don't have a build thread, The tank and skimmer is built and we are rebuilding/re-plumbing it after our flood, (not the tank) it should be operational in a month. I never factored in the chiller having any affect on the ATS, There isn't much else I can do without adding another high pressure pump. I originally thought to light up the ATS with a solar tube since we are at roof level, but I know it will need supplemental lighting during the night, and I cant see that there is room for both, has anyone tried both?
_shorty_
New member
Anyone ever seen anyone back up a tank to a window? LOL - uncontrollable algae in what I've seen. However - they probably weren't the most experienced - and I wasn't either at the time (11yrs ago) - but thinking back, I was recently wondering how well a solar powered scrubber might work. Probably have good growth - but you'd end up losing the bennifet of the alternating light cycles and pH swing.
No suggestion for chiller.. I have read that temperature can affect growth (probably from one of these threads), but my suspicion it will still work - but is just not 'optimal'. that's a guess, though. Haven't had to run a chiller yet - currently been able to get by with using fans and my scrubber for water cooling with my 250W halides so far. It's still early stages for this tank though - so I don't know if that will change or not.
As per your other question about flow - I was playing with a similar scenario - where return pump fed above tank scrubber. I had about 1000 GPH split to two 10" or 12" screens. It was loud and I believe did knock algae off the screen although I believe it still would have worked. I believe there would have been considerable salt creep in the container if I'd have left it. I did plumb in an exit from the pipe elbowed down from each pipe to quietly drop the extra flow below water level. I think I reduced pipe diameter and added a valve to each so that I could adjust how much flow was going over the scrubber without losing my over-all flow through the system.
How does your dump bucket work? What method/plumbing for emptying the water into the DT? Does it introduce bubbles? I've been playing with that just recently and was about to try a gravity feed solinoid valve and float switch, but don't know how loud that solinoid is going to be. Seems that most other dump methods introduce a lot of air bubbles (that I've played with).
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JohnnyB in SD
New member
I've got my 20gl QT in a south window, essentially one big ATS tank. Very low cost to operate. Only uses a small HOB filter and heater, couple CFLs in the early evening hours just so there's enough light to feed the critters. Occasionally siphon out accumulated detritus. Isn't exactly the appearance you'd want for a DT, but water quality is no problem.
crazzyreefer
New member
I use (3) +GF+ Georg Fischer 24v 1 1/4 Valves fed by a 3" line, for the dump tank alone, the dump tank is 10' higher then the tank, this has the effect to pressurize the water, like placer mining, and if they are shut off prior to emptying the tank no air bubbles are formed. Just the sound of a breaking surf as it reaches the overflow. They each are on duel adjustable timers controls, and one controller resets all of them to keep them in sync. I program them to alternate for about 1 min then off, I tried every other type of control, and only this worked, I also went to 3" feed tube/bulkhead from a 2" because of the amount of suction created a toilet bowl effect in the dump tank.
At the Makers Fair a engineer gave me the Idea to use a Arduino board and a pizo electric weight measurement under the Dump tank so when the tank was full it would open the valve and when it was almost empty it would close it.
I prefer to use industrial automation equipment, as its 100% duty cycle. It was simple, and cheap, but I might try an Arduino set up in the future.
Yes the solar tube would work but I need the PH to stabilize, this was one of the best attributes of a ATS that I noticed from the past. and to do this I would have to automate a lighting change, or I might be able to use LED in the Solar tube?
I am looking into a Oriental Electric motor, Waterproof, and gear it to rotate the netting over high pressure clean water jets for self cleaning, at the present I have the skimmer plumbed into the house drains, so If I set it up it would rotate the mesh through a separate chamber that has the jets and a drain once a week. Additionally I could also place an optical sensor to know when to turn on the cleaning cycle. Continually running the mesh would give me 3X the surface area, and only the cleaning jets would be on a timer.
At the Makers Fair a engineer gave me the Idea to use a Arduino board and a pizo electric weight measurement under the Dump tank so when the tank was full it would open the valve and when it was almost empty it would close it.
I prefer to use industrial automation equipment, as its 100% duty cycle. It was simple, and cheap, but I might try an Arduino set up in the future.
Yes the solar tube would work but I need the PH to stabilize, this was one of the best attributes of a ATS that I noticed from the past. and to do this I would have to automate a lighting change, or I might be able to use LED in the Solar tube?
I am looking into a Oriental Electric motor, Waterproof, and gear it to rotate the netting over high pressure clean water jets for self cleaning, at the present I have the skimmer plumbed into the house drains, so If I set it up it would rotate the mesh through a separate chamber that has the jets and a drain once a week. Additionally I could also place an optical sensor to know when to turn on the cleaning cycle. Continually running the mesh would give me 3X the surface area, and only the cleaning jets would be on a timer.
xtinataguba
In Memoriam
this is a good stuff! im glad i read this, but anybody knows angle scrubbers?
jasonrstewart79
New member
I'm trying to decide on sourcing for lighting on an ATS experiment that I've been thinking about. Specifically looking for 3 things:
1.) 12-15" t5 fixture, if available
2.) 12" LED panel fixture, red/red blue under $100 price range
3.) A CFL fixture that could be mounted horizontally with an overall height of <3"
Can anyone help me with this... Google searches have given some leads but I know there are some fellow ATS builders that use smaller t5 and small CFL fixtures. I think I can source LEDs pretty well.
1.) 12-15" t5 fixture, if available
2.) 12" LED panel fixture, red/red blue under $100 price range
3.) A CFL fixture that could be mounted horizontally with an overall height of <3"
Can anyone help me with this... Google searches have given some leads but I know there are some fellow ATS builders that use smaller t5 and small CFL fixtures. I think I can source LEDs pretty well.
kcress
New member
duganderson
Member
Scrubber growth and filtration rates and timing?
Scrubber growth and filtration rates and timing?
I added a HOG.5 Upflow Algae Scrubber to my 28 g. nano about 5 weeks ago. It is starting to work.....
I had a few questions.....
1. Why do scrubbers take so many weeks to work well?
2. After the first cleaning, it seems like folks report improved growth and filtration on the 2nd and 3rd cleanings. What is changing that leads to even better growth over time?
3. Why do you get a nutrient spike after cleaning if new growth is starting right away? What nutrients tend to spike and for how long?
4. The screen on my upflow alage scrubber is very small (approx. 3" wide by 4" tall). Does anyone have experience trying to limit the nurtient spike by cleaning only 1/2 the screen at a time OR is the spike really not worth worrying about???
5. Is another option to reduce the nurtrient spike to imperfectly scrape the screen and leave some algae on the whole thing OR is it better to leave some of the long growth on the screen in spots.
6. Are there any good research type articles that explain what types of nutrients, metals, etc. are removed by scrubber or how this happens?
Any resources, links, articles to help me understand this stuff appreciated.
Thanks, Doug
Scrubber growth and filtration rates and timing?
I added a HOG.5 Upflow Algae Scrubber to my 28 g. nano about 5 weeks ago. It is starting to work.....
I had a few questions.....
1. Why do scrubbers take so many weeks to work well?
2. After the first cleaning, it seems like folks report improved growth and filtration on the 2nd and 3rd cleanings. What is changing that leads to even better growth over time?
3. Why do you get a nutrient spike after cleaning if new growth is starting right away? What nutrients tend to spike and for how long?
4. The screen on my upflow alage scrubber is very small (approx. 3" wide by 4" tall). Does anyone have experience trying to limit the nurtient spike by cleaning only 1/2 the screen at a time OR is the spike really not worth worrying about???
5. Is another option to reduce the nurtrient spike to imperfectly scrape the screen and leave some algae on the whole thing OR is it better to leave some of the long growth on the screen in spots.
6. Are there any good research type articles that explain what types of nutrients, metals, etc. are removed by scrubber or how this happens?
Any resources, links, articles to help me understand this stuff appreciated.
Thanks, Doug
Floyd R Turbo
Either busy or sleeping
Freshwater scrubbers start growing very fast and usually go straight to green. Growth is very thin, silk-like strands and the growth is generally not 3D.
Saltwater algae seems to need a surface to build up to anchor to. The screen basically needs to develop a very thin calcified layer (for lack of a better term) upon which the algae will root. This substance is similar to what forms inside your plumbing - kind of a brown stain layer almost. It is my opinion that this layer is actually the roughness that the algae binds to - not the roughed-up screen itself. But you need a LOT of surface area for this calcified layer to form on, and it must be varied enough that the calcified layer does not easily break away.
This process takes time in SW and there's really not a darn thing you can do about it.
The first layer that usually forms is diatoms and/or dinoflagellates. This is because the plastic canvas is sort of like food for bacteria, similar to a rubbermaid container (as revealed by Sanjay Joshi in one of his carbon dosing articles/studies). Try placing a piece of canvas in your sump somewhere and you will grow dinos like nuts on it. The algae eventually takes over this "real estate" though.
From my personal experience, my UAS seemed to take a very long time to get going. So long that I thought it was worthless. I have had waterfall scrubbers grow to full green screens in 2-3 weeks, my UAS took literally months of messing around, but that was right after it was revealed. It grows well now but still seems to take forever to fill in the screen after cleaning. I am not sold yet.
Growth gets better as the algae roots in more places. Per above.
Algae grows exponentially. When you scrape the algae off, it has to start over again. So you have a bit more limited filtration capacity at first.
IMO the spike is not worth worrying about unless you start to notice a particular pattern of problems that can be directly linked to the frequency of screen cleaning. As in, for 2 days after you clean the screen, XYZ coral is unhappy. Try cleaning 1/2 of screen every 4 days and see what happens. Everyone's system is different so you just have to see how yours responds. There is a fair amount of unknown connections between scrubbers, cleaning periods, and reactions from certain corals. For instance, I have a hard time keeping birdsnests, frogspawn, and hammers. Others have no problems.
a partial cleaning is fine.
Search for wastewater treatment and algae. Lots of papers out there, not sure how much applies to us.
blackwidow
New member
Hey floyd could you comment on my DIY ATS setup please: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2261943 want to know if I got the setup parameters ( flow, lighting etc..) Correct?
p.s. I loved your designs
